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The weak, and the strong
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Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
#21 - 2012-06-12 16:23:51 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
MasterEnt wrote:
Please explain to me how using a combat ship to attack a non-combat ship is strong?


Somali skiffs vs bulk tankers

U-boats vs merchant ships

Slave ships vs a royal navy 5th rate

Spanish gold ships vs gallions

Trade hulks vs triremes

Piracy is not a new thing here. Its history goes back for as long as merchant ships have existed. Why would EVE be any different?



Not to mention ganking in hisec has been nerfed over hte years and CONCORD buffed. Gankers seem to have adapted. Regardless of the point that killing a defenseless ship is not a feat of strength, the resolve to find a way to do so in an ever increasingly difficult environment is what makes them strong.

You make a valid point, good Sir or Madam. 
Bossy Lady
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#22 - 2012-06-12 16:35:39 UTC
MasterEnt wrote:
Please explain to me how using a combat ship to attack a non-combat ship is strong?


Please explain to me how losing your ship and all your stuff isn't weak

Posting on this character because apparently some people get upset when they're asked difficult questions. M.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2012-06-12 16:38:06 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
So some of the high sec miner types are all up in arms because people are killing their "max yield but not enough tank to stand up to a destoyer" Hulks. I imagie the silent majority are simply taking the more than reasonable counter-steps needed to frustrate the gankers, but this goes out to the stubborn foot stomping entitled few who thinks the game working as intended is somehow wrong.

Talk to High Sec Mission runners.

I'm serious. Just talk to them.. They did this thing called "ADAPTING" and it's much less profitable/satisfying to screw with most of them now.

You see, in the past, some Mission runners felt like the game owed them to right to put full officer fits on mission running ships (these were the "Max-yeild Hulks of mission running"). Well, some other folks used in game items (ship scanners, probes ect) and mechanics (suicide ganking) to take these things away from the super shiney mission runners. Some (the weak) quit in frustration.

The rest (the strong) stopped putting so much shiney crap on mission ships (and/or filled their fracking EM hole on their tengus lol) and are still quietly mission running in high sec to this very day.

The "Incursion Communities" (rofl) just experianced this too. They were doing their own max yeild thing. Then players came in and killed the mother ship or join tehir fleet and withheld reps or simply suicide ganked them out of their 5 bil isk Nightmares/vindicators ect. Then CCP came down from on high and killed the farmable things.

The dedicated incursion runners (the strong) are still at it, the oppurtunistic, fair weather, incursion gold miners (the weak) are long gone, hopefully never to return.

So it is with EVE, this huge Electro-Darwinian Experiment, the strong survive, the weak perish ( but only after multiple General Discussion forum whiney posts, of course).
I'm just glad dinosaurs didn't have forums, or Asteroids would have been nerfed eons ago.........And then what would miners mine?



another pontificating high horse post... I was hoping you'd say something new.. but nope.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#24 - 2012-06-12 16:39:26 UTC
Strong = knowing when a game is not for you and finding something else more suited to your idea of fun.

Weak = making fun of those people.

Mr Epeen Cool
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#25 - 2012-06-12 16:54:49 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Thankfully there are still a lot of mission runners and haulers who don't fit a good tank or do silly things.


Specific rat tankers are ubber intelligently fitted ships !! -specially with officer/dead space mods all over their slots !

Amirite? Lol

brb
Scien Inkunen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-06-12 17:22:14 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Ban Bindy wrote:
You seem to be confusing Eve with Darwin. Eve is a game. Your strong and your weak are internet database operators. Eve is not real, you know, and what you achieve here does not mean anything. So puff yourself up about how tough you are and continue to delude yourself with your badass game.


"EVE is a game" is true. It is also a dodge.

EVE is (among other things) an activity. One filled with both weak willed and strong willed people. As in real life, the strong willed will find a way to do what they want regardless of the actions of others. The Weak willed will quit or whine/rage about unfariness. If you don't think enough of your chosen pass time/activiy to adapt to chainging circumstances to stay in that passtime/activity (because it's just a game), then why do it in the 1st place?

The people whining on the forums about the unfairness of having their Hulk smashed rather than being silent aren't observing the "it's just a game rule". If it were just a game to them, they'd simpyl log out/unsub and be gone, right?

This is not to say that EVE online is perfect and that no dissent is warranted, we all have thing we don't like, or that we think could be inproved. But we aren't talking about that, we are talking about weak minded individuals who buy into fallacy-land logic like "what's bad for me is bad for the game".

Which is why I say EVE may not be "real", but it mimics real life in one key aspect: only the strong survive.


Strong survive - my ass. Wolf pack survive.

Read the "Fart file" and you will understand the meaning of life !
Partii Boii
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#27 - 2012-06-12 17:23:17 UTC
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#28 - 2012-06-12 18:02:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Partii Boii wrote:
CCP disagrees with you - http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=72880


I think you have read wrong. When did I say anything about ccp agreeing or disagreeing?

I said that the REAL incursion community (strong) adapted, the fair weather crowd (weak) bailed. Nothing ccp does to incursions changes this.

MasterEnt wrote:
Please explain to me how using a combat ship to attack a non-combat ship is strong?


Please explain to me where I said this....

But since you mention it, I admire how the gankers and many, many high sec miners have adapted to changing circumstances rather than whine. I am not a ganker, but I do like the fact that the game has some avenue to allow the rest of us to affect the high sec/concord protected people who think they should be able to dump mins on the market with no chance of interference.


Mr Epeen wrote:
Strong = knowing when a game is not for you and finding something else more suited to your idea of fun.

Weak = making fun of those people.

Mr Epeen Cool



I've seen this reply before (not just in this thread) and it is simply illogical. How did the game become suddenly unfun for the people were are talking about (high sec miners)? Who ever told them that they were safe, did they not learn the game before skilling up to a tech 2 ship to play the game with?

If they had the expectation of total safety, they were simply wrong. If they quit because they are being forced to contend with a reality (suicide ganking) that is exists not just since before they downloaded the game, but from the very beginning of High Sec, well then, that's just their own fault, now isn't it?

This is what I mean by weak. The majority of eve players I think are not so weak, this included to people who got out of there hulks and into Rokhs ect, or who stayed in them and went to null sec, or stayed in empire and got in a good corp for protection/repping ect.

I'm talking to that minority of entitled kids who are despairing someone being able to shoot them in high sec. The majority of mission runners learned what to do (take the shiny crap off, stop mission running in over populated systems ect ect), and the Hulk miners can do the same.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#29 - 2012-06-12 18:04:00 UTC
Scien Inkunen wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Ban Bindy wrote:
You seem to be confusing Eve with Darwin. Eve is a game. Your strong and your weak are internet database operators. Eve is not real, you know, and what you achieve here does not mean anything. So puff yourself up about how tough you are and continue to delude yourself with your badass game.


"EVE is a game" is true. It is also a dodge.

EVE is (among other things) an activity. One filled with both weak willed and strong willed people. As in real life, the strong willed will find a way to do what they want regardless of the actions of others. The Weak willed will quit or whine/rage about unfariness. If you don't think enough of your chosen pass time/activiy to adapt to chainging circumstances to stay in that passtime/activity (because it's just a game), then why do it in the 1st place?

The people whining on the forums about the unfairness of having their Hulk smashed rather than being silent aren't observing the "it's just a game rule". If it were just a game to them, they'd simpyl log out/unsub and be gone, right?

This is not to say that EVE online is perfect and that no dissent is warranted, we all have thing we don't like, or that we think could be inproved. But we aren't talking about that, we are talking about weak minded individuals who buy into fallacy-land logic like "what's bad for me is bad for the game".

Which is why I say EVE may not be "real", but it mimics real life in one key aspect: only the strong survive.


Strong survive - my ass. Wolf pack survive.


Join wolfpack?
Random Majere
Rogue Fleet
#30 - 2012-06-12 18:04:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Random Majere
Bossy Lady wrote:
MasterEnt wrote:
Please explain to me how using a combat ship to attack a non-combat ship is strong?


Please explain to me how losing your ship and all your stuff isn't weak


I do not know about loosing ALL your stuff but loosing ships does not mean you are weak. Not sure if your question makes sense or....
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#31 - 2012-06-12 18:05:27 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Savage Angel wrote:


Not at all. People play games for enjoyment, and if they can find more enjoyment elsewhere, who can blame them for leaving? Now if they never touched a computer again because of a gank, then they would have problems.


Nah that doesn't work for me. Giving up is not adapting.



Playing something for pleasure your not enjoying is not adapting, its stupid.

Tal
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#32 - 2012-06-12 18:08:03 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Partii Boii wrote:
CCP disagrees with you - http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=72880


I think you have read wrong. When did I say anything about ccp agreeing or disagreeing?

I said that the REAL incursion community (strong) adapted, the fair weather crowd (weak) bailed. Nothing ccp does to incursions changes this.

MasterEnt wrote:
Please explain to me how using a combat ship to attack a non-combat ship is strong?


Please explain to me where I said this....

But since you mention it, I admire how the gankers and many, many high sec miners have adapted to changing circumstances rather than whine. I am not a ganker, but I do like the fact that the game has some avenue to allow the rest of us to affect the high sec/concord protected people who think they should be able to dump mins on the market with no chance of interference.


Mr Epeen wrote:
Strong = knowing when a game is not for you and finding something else more suited to your idea of fun.

Weak = making fun of those people.

Mr Epeen Cool



I've seen this reply before (not just in this thread) and it is simply illogical. How did the game become suddenly unfun for the people were are talking about (high sec miners)? Who ever told them that they were safe, did they not learn the game before skilling up to a tech 2 ship to play the game with?

If they had the expectation of total safety, they were simply wrong. If they quit because they are being forced to contend with a reality (suicide ganking) that is exists not just since before they downloaded the game, but from the very beginning of High Sec, well then, that's just their own fault, now isn't it?

This is what I mean by weak. The majority of eve players I think are not so weak, this included to people who got out of there hulks and into Rokhs ect, or who stayed in them and went to null sec, or stayed in empire and got in a good corp for protection/repping ect.

I'm talking to that minority of entitled kids who are despairing someone being able to shoot them in high sec. The majority of mission runners learned what to do (take the shiny crap off, stop mission running in over populated systems ect ect), and the Hulk miners can do the same.


Sorry you can't call a player weak just because the game dynamics change they don't enjoy it and move on, thats just dumb.

Tal


Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#33 - 2012-06-12 18:14:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Talon SilverHawk wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Savage Angel wrote:


Not at all. People play games for enjoyment, and if they can find more enjoyment elsewhere, who can blame them for leaving? Now if they never touched a computer again because of a gank, then they would have problems.


Nah that doesn't work for me. Giving up is not adapting.



Playing something for pleasure your not enjoying is not adapting, its stupid.

Tal



Not making simply adaptations to keep enjoying something you were already doing, that's what I find to be stupid (and weak).

I use my own experience as an example. When cloaky people came into my upgraded system and I stopped my ratting and I even took to the forums in "THIS IS WRONG" rage.

After a couple hours , i figured that was stupid, I fitted a cloak and mwd, logged in my scouting alt, and found systems with no sov and no cloaky guys and plenty of natural anoms and made a damn fortune on them and the escalations.

Sure, going through gates is risky (less risky with scout), having a cloak on makes looking stuff take longer, no pos to warp to sucks (but i have cloak + safe spot) and my ratting system has a station. inconvenient, yes, but I still found a way to have my fun and make my isk.

I simply feel sorry for people who can't adapt. I use the mission runners as an example, because you people on here whinning about something that has always existed and will never change will be happier when you, like I did, just shut up and adapt.
Jax Bederen
Dark Horse RM
#34 - 2012-06-12 18:15:26 UTC
Ban Bindy wrote:
You seem to be confusing Eve with Darwin. Eve is a game. Your strong and your weak are internet database operators. Eve is not real, you know, and what you achieve here does not mean anything. So puff yourself up about how tough you are and continue to delude yourself with your badass game.


Glad someone put a bit of perspective into this thread.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#35 - 2012-06-12 18:16:20 UTC
Talon SilverHawk wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Partii Boii wrote:
CCP disagrees with you - http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=72880


I think you have read wrong. When did I say anything about ccp agreeing or disagreeing?

I said that the REAL incursion community (strong) adapted, the fair weather crowd (weak) bailed. Nothing ccp does to incursions changes this.

MasterEnt wrote:
Please explain to me how using a combat ship to attack a non-combat ship is strong?


Please explain to me where I said this....

But since you mention it, I admire how the gankers and many, many high sec miners have adapted to changing circumstances rather than whine. I am not a ganker, but I do like the fact that the game has some avenue to allow the rest of us to affect the high sec/concord protected people who think they should be able to dump mins on the market with no chance of interference.


Mr Epeen wrote:
Strong = knowing when a game is not for you and finding something else more suited to your idea of fun.

Weak = making fun of those people.

Mr Epeen Cool



I've seen this reply before (not just in this thread) and it is simply illogical. How did the game become suddenly unfun for the people were are talking about (high sec miners)? Who ever told them that they were safe, did they not learn the game before skilling up to a tech 2 ship to play the game with?

If they had the expectation of total safety, they were simply wrong. If they quit because they are being forced to contend with a reality (suicide ganking) that is exists not just since before they downloaded the game, but from the very beginning of High Sec, well then, that's just their own fault, now isn't it?

This is what I mean by weak. The majority of eve players I think are not so weak, this included to people who got out of there hulks and into Rokhs ect, or who stayed in them and went to null sec, or stayed in empire and got in a good corp for protection/repping ect.

I'm talking to that minority of entitled kids who are despairing someone being able to shoot them in high sec. The majority of mission runners learned what to do (take the shiny crap off, stop mission running in over populated systems ect ect), and the Hulk miners can do the same.


Sorry you can't call a player weak just because the game dynamics change they don't enjoy it and move on, thats just dumb.

Tal




Stop right there.

What game dynamics changed (for miners)?
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#36 - 2012-06-12 18:21:30 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

I've seen this reply before (not just in this thread) and it is simply illogical. How did the game become suddenly unfun for the people were are talking about (high sec miners)?



Holy crap!

Have you even been reading the forums for the last few months? Are we even playing the same version of EVE?

I won't bother quoting or responding to the rest of that diatribe as it's all straw man.

Mr Epeen Cool
Alexandra Delarge
The Korova
#37 - 2012-06-12 18:26:35 UTC
Ban Bindy wrote:
You seem to be confusing Eve with Darwin. Eve is a game. Your strong and your weak are internet database operators. Eve is not real, you know, and what you achieve here does not mean anything. So puff yourself up about how tough you are and continue to delude yourself with your badass game.

Replace the words:

'How tough you are' with 'Having the right attitude to enjoy the game to its fullest'

'Badass game' with 'Challenging'

Looks like you don't like challenging games or have the right attitude to enjoy this game to its fullest and are jealous of others who do.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#38 - 2012-06-12 18:27:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Mr Epeen wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

I've seen this reply before (not just in this thread) and it is simply illogical. How did the game become suddenly unfun for the people were are talking about (high sec miners)?



Holy crap!

Have you even been reading the forums for the last few months? Are we even playing the same version of EVE?

I won't bother quoting or responding to the rest of that diatribe as it's all straw man.

Mr Epeen Cool


rofl, you do know that calling something a straw man is in fact a use of the straw man fallacies lol.

And I've been playing the game for the last few months, yes. I make isk from null sec anomalies, so Ive been through the recent cycles of nerf buff nerf like everyone else. I adapted to it.

The fact is, for high sec miners, nothing has changed except maybe the tempo of ganks. If they came into the game and got spoiled by the max yeild no tank mining and thus let themselves be shocked by the fact that people can still kill you in high sec, that's simply their fault for not being well informed enough.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#39 - 2012-06-12 18:28:52 UTC
Alexandra Delarge wrote:
Ban Bindy wrote:
You seem to be confusing Eve with Darwin. Eve is a game. Your strong and your weak are internet database operators. Eve is not real, you know, and what you achieve here does not mean anything. So puff yourself up about how tough you are and continue to delude yourself with your badass game.

Replace the words:

'How tough you are' with 'Having the right attitude to enjoy the game to its fullest'

'Badass game' with 'Challenging'

Looks like you don't like challenging games or have the right attitude to enjoy this game to its fullest and are jealous of others who do.


I totally +1'd this post for truthfulness and clarity. Would read again.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2012-06-12 18:29:32 UTC
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"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny