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Give me a break

First post
Author
Maximum Entropy
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2012-06-12 03:04:46 UTC
It is quite strange that here I am wishing that the game was easier for us players and more fun, and faster paced, and all I get is people dissing all the ideas like it's crazy talk.

Reminds of that book What wrong with Kansas, where everyone votes against their own interests in politics.

Yea, I want us to have more abilities, and go gain ISK faster and make the SLIGHTLY faster paced, and all of you think THAT'S JUST HORRIBLE!!!

Why is the total number of "likes received" a poster has inversely proportional to the quality of posts one makes?

Greyscale Dash
Doomheim
#42 - 2012-06-12 03:05:11 UTC
Maximum Entropy wrote:
It is quite strange that here I am wishing that the game was easier for us players and more fun, and faster paced, and all I get is people dissing all the ideas like it's crazy talk.

Reminds of that book What wrong with Kansas, where everyone votes against their own interests in politics.

Yea, I want us to have more abilities, and go gain ISK faster and make the SLIGHTLY faster paced, and all of you think THAT'S JUST HORRIBLE!!!


Quiet troll.

You've been caught double posting.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#43 - 2012-06-12 03:06:51 UTC
I dualbox forums, but you'll never know who my alt is. Haha!

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#44 - 2012-06-12 03:09:28 UTC
Maximum Entropy wrote:
It is quite strange that here I am wishing that the game was easier for us players and more fun, and faster paced, and all I get is people dissing all the ideas like it's crazy talk.
It's because what you're suggesting doesn't particularly make the game easier, more fun, or faster.

What you're suggesting is that the game solves your bad decisions. You chose to do things in a slow, difficult, and boring way, rather than employ the fast, easy… ok, perhaps not fun (but let's for the sake of argument assume that higher ISK/h = more fun). The solution to that problem is for you to choose differently. Removing the choice and variety is the wrong way to go.
Maximum Entropy
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2012-06-12 03:12:03 UTC
Greyscale Dash wrote:
Maximum Entropy wrote:
It is quite strange that here I am wishing that the game was easier for us players and more fun, and faster paced, and all I get is people dissing all the ideas like it's crazy talk.

Reminds of that book What wrong with Kansas, where everyone votes against their own interests in politics.

Yea, I want us to have more abilities, and go gain ISK faster and make the SLIGHTLY faster paced, and all of you think THAT'S JUST HORRIBLE!!!


Quiet troll.

You've been caught double posting.


Explain that please. By double posting you meant posting with 2 different accounts right? Well, that can be disproven real fast, if you point out which post you think I posted, and then that person saying whether or not they are me? Right?

Why is the total number of "likes received" a poster has inversely proportional to the quality of posts one makes?

Maximum Entropy
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2012-06-12 03:15:20 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Maximum Entropy wrote:
It is quite strange that here I am wishing that the game was easier for us players and more fun, and faster paced, and all I get is people dissing all the ideas like it's crazy talk.
It's because what you're suggesting doesn't particularly make the game easier, more fun, or faster.

What you're suggesting is that the game solves your bad decisions. You chose to do things in a slow, difficult, and boring way, rather than employ the fast, easy… ok, perhaps not fun (but let's for the sake of argument assume that higher ISK/h = more fun). The solution to that problem is for you to choose differently. Removing the choice and variety is the wrong way to go.

How would your loot popping up after you kill something not make the game easier, and why OH why why why please tell me would anyone actually WANT to have to spend extra time just to FLY TO A WRECK? WHY? WHO would want to have to do that? WHO would even want to have to target it with a tractor beam, wait for it to come to you, then loot it, then salvage it. After 3 tries, or 6 or 8 salvage tries.

WHY WHY WHY WHY? Just let us have the loot so we can move ON! It's elementary.

Why is the total number of "likes received" a poster has inversely proportional to the quality of posts one makes?

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#47 - 2012-06-12 03:20:18 UTC
Maximum Entropy wrote:
How would your loot popping up after you kill something not make the game easier
It would make it a hell of a lot harder to steal said loot, for one. For another, a proper looting ship will pretty much have the same effect.

Quote:
why OH why why why please tell me would anyone actually WANT to have to spend extra time just to FLY TO A WRECK?
No-one. That's why they choose not to, and instead employ tools and strategies that keeps them from doing that. If none of that is available, the fall-back option of just flying there is still available.

Quote:
WHO would even want to have to target it with a tractor beam, wait for it to come to you, then loot it, then salvage it. After 3 tries, or 6 or 8 salvage tries.
No-one, that's why they employ tools and strategies that means there is no waiting time and pretty much zero retries.

Quote:
Just let us have the loot so we can move ON! It's elementary.
If you just want to move on, the elementary part would be to… you know… move on. Why are you obsessing over loot that only reduces your earnings (especially with the technique you've chosen)?
Greyscale Dash
Doomheim
#48 - 2012-06-12 03:20:57 UTC
This guy is trying desperately to regain a little legitimacy.
ModeratedToSilence
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#49 - 2012-06-12 03:21:00 UTC
Maximum Entropy wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Maximum Entropy wrote:
It is quite strange that here I am wishing that the game was easier for us players and more fun, and faster paced, and all I get is people dissing all the ideas like it's crazy talk.
It's because what you're suggesting doesn't particularly make the game easier, more fun, or faster.

What you're suggesting is that the game solves your bad decisions. You chose to do things in a slow, difficult, and boring way, rather than employ the fast, easy… ok, perhaps not fun (but let's for the sake of argument assume that higher ISK/h = more fun). The solution to that problem is for you to choose differently. Removing the choice and variety is the wrong way to go.

How would your loot popping up after you kill something not make the game easier, and why OH why why why please tell me would anyone actually WANT to have to spend extra time just to FLY TO A WRECK? WHY? WHO would want to have to do that? WHO would even want to have to target it with a tractor beam, wait for it to come to you, then loot it, then salvage it. After 3 tries, or 6 or 8 salvage tries.

WHY WHY WHY WHY? Just let us have the loot so we can move ON! It's elementary.


You are not skilled enough to get the lootz
Sobach
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2012-06-12 03:24:01 UTC
Maximum Entropy wrote:

How would your loot popping up after you kill something not make the game easier,


for one thing, a lot of ships don't have the cargohold to carry all the salvage and loot.

Maximum Entropy wrote:
OH why why why please tell me would anyone actually WANT to have to spend extra time just to FLY TO A WRECK? WHY? WHO would want to have to do that?


nobody does, though they used to anyway. Nowadays if you're flying to a wreck, you're doing it wrong.

Maximum Entropy wrote:
WHO would even want to have to target it with a tractor beam, wait for it to come to you, then loot it, then salvage it. After 3 tries, or 6 or 8 salvage tries.


learn to use an actual salvage ships with proper skills and rigs


Maximum Entropy
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2012-06-12 03:27:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximum Entropy
Tippia wrote:
Maximum Entropy wrote:
How would your loot popping up after you kill something not make the game easier
It would make it a hell of a lot harder to steal said loot, for one. For another, a proper looting ship will pretty much have the same effect.

Quote:
why OH why why why please tell me would anyone actually WANT to have to spend extra time just to FLY TO A WRECK?
No-one. That's why they choose not to, and instead employ tools and strategies that keeps them from doing that. If none of that is available, the fall-back option of just flying there is still available.

Quote:
WHO would even want to have to target it with a tractor beam, wait for it to come to you, then loot it, then salvage it. After 3 tries, or 6 or 8 salvage tries.
No-one, that's why they employ tools and strategies that means there is no waiting time and pretty much zero retries.

Quote:
Just let us have the loot so we can move ON! It's elementary.
If you just want to move on, the elementary part would be to… you know… move on. Why are you obsessing over loot that only reduces your earnings (especially with the technique you've chosen)?


So basically you're saying that since they put these salvage rigs in game, and they put a tractor beam in game, that no one can argue that you would ever need to have tractor beam or salvage rig. So because they DO exist, that means they SHOULD exist. Well I think that's ridiculous. I challenge the notion of having to use a tractor beam, or salvage rig. I like how you say "the option sill exists" to fly to a wreck, instead of saying, if you don't have to skills, and many players don't for the first few months, then you ARE FORCED to fly to each wreck. For them, it is NOT an option, is it?

But it did make it clear to me CCP's point of view. They want to complicate the game so much, and make everything take longer, but they think if they add something like a salvage rig or tractor beam, it will make the user not question the whole concept of needing one in the first place. It's like creating the solution to a problem that never needed to exist in the first place. Then, you just say, oh right, here's the solution. But each salvage rig or tractor beam is taking the place of a module or rig that would have made you finish the mission faster.... it's all just misdirection.

Why is the total number of "likes received" a poster has inversely proportional to the quality of posts one makes?

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#52 - 2012-06-12 03:30:04 UTC
Maximum Entropy wrote:


So basically you're saying that since they put these salvage rigs in game, and they put a tractor beam in game, that no one can argue that you would ever need to have tractor beam or salvage rig. So because they DO exist, that means they SHOULD exist. Well I think that's ridiculous. I challenge the notion of having to use a tractor beam, or salvage rig. I like how you say "the option sill exists" to fly to a wreck, instead of saying, if you don't have to skills, and many players don't for the first few months, then you ARE FORCED to fly to each wreck. For them, it is NOT an option, is it?



Poor baby. Get out and take your instant gratification whines with you.
Greyscale Dash
Doomheim
#53 - 2012-06-12 03:31:56 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Maximum Entropy wrote:


So basically you're saying that since they put these salvage rigs in game, and they put a tractor beam in game, that no one can argue that you would ever need to have tractor beam or salvage rig. So because they DO exist, that means they SHOULD exist. Well I think that's ridiculous. I challenge the notion of having to use a tractor beam, or salvage rig. I like how you say "the option sill exists" to fly to a wreck, instead of saying, if you don't have to skills, and many players don't for the first few months, then you ARE FORCED to fly to each wreck. For them, it is NOT an option, is it?



Poor baby. Get out and take your instant gratification whines with you.


Dude, he is a troll.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#54 - 2012-06-12 03:33:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Maximum Entropy wrote:
So basically you're saying that since they put these salvage rigs in game, and they put a tractor beam in game, that no one can argue that you would ever need to have tractor beam or salvage rig.
No. I'm saying that they've given you lots of options. It's up to you to mix and match them to best serve your purpose. Your poor decisions in this field is not a design problem.

Quote:
I challenge the notion of having to use a tractor beam, or salvage rig.
Good news: you don't have to.

Quote:
I like how you say "the option sill exists" to fly to a wreck, instead of saying, if you don't have to skills, and many players don't for the first few months, then you ARE FORCED to fly to each wreck.
Even better news: they're not forced to.

Best news of all: it's this plethora of options and the ability to customise what to use and how that makes the game interesting. Removing those options because you don't want to deal with them removes gameplay, not just for you but for the people around you.

Quote:
But it did make it clear to me CCP's point of view. They want to complicate the game so much, and make everything take longer
No. They want you to create your own experience (and influence the experience of others).

Quote:
But each salvage rig or tractor beam is taking the place of a module or rig that would have made you finish the mission faster.... it's all just misdirection.
No. It's you making choices about how you want to approach the problem. The choices you're making seem to create more problems than they solve, which suggests to me that your choices aren't particularly good.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#55 - 2012-06-12 03:35:06 UTC
Greyscale Dash wrote:


Dude, he is a troll.


I know. Im just using him as entertainment as I try to fix my Sky box.
Har Harrison
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2012-06-12 03:38:24 UTC
0/10 Troll

Use a Noctis, Orca or Marauder

Maximum Entropy
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2012-06-12 03:48:00 UTC
A great example for how they create time wasting solutions for problems intended to be nothing but more of a time-sink is the the need for an analyzer, or hacking modules.

Because just going somewhere and killing NPC, then flying to a spawn container didn't take long enough, you also have to train to use a module, and make that module take up space on your ship that could be used for other things, which in actuality all you're doing is getting loot from stuff you killed.

Just to give one contrasting example, in the SWTOR Beta, you had to click on each individual corpse you killed to get the loot from it. By the time SWTOR was released, they made it easier for players by making it so you just had to click on one dead NPC and it would auto loot all the surrounding NPCs. Neat huh, made it faster and easier. As a player it was great.

But having something so simple in EVE would make the EVE players very angry, you see. Because it would all happen much to fast. They would much rather not only have to click on each individual NPC, but after all the NPCs are dead and it's time to loot, the game system should enforce and TIME SLOWING mechanism, similar to "BULLET TIME" while the player walks to each corpse to loot. The time, and therefore player walking speed, is reduced by 98% in order to waste the most time as he walks in slow motion to each NPC, SLOWLY showing the "kneeling" animation at 98% slower than it should be.

Why is the total number of "likes received" a poster has inversely proportional to the quality of posts one makes?

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#58 - 2012-06-12 03:50:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Maximum Entropy wrote:
A great example for how they create time wasting solutions for problems intended to be nothing but more of a time-sink is the the need for an analyzer, or hacking modules.
…which separate the low-skilled from the highly skilled, and those with few slots from those with many slots, thus creating different competitive advantages to choose from as you race to get the stuff.

Quote:
Just to give one contrasting example, in the SWTOR Beta, you had to click on each individual corpse you killed to get the loot from it.
…and how did you steal loot? How did you cherry-pick loot? How did you ignore and destroy loot?
Maximum Entropy
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2012-06-12 03:51:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximum Entropy
Now, if SWTOR was like EVE, it should be noted that a player can speed up the SLOW MOTION mechanism by unequipping all armor, traveling to the origin world, and respeccing to a completley different class, called the "speed up class." This class does no damage at all, and gets ONE hit killed by any npcs or players, and it costs 100 million credits each time you switch to this class, BUT IT IS AN OPTION, and because you have to option to do it, NO ONE can challenge the idea that you should ever need such an option.

So yea, you can just respec to a LOOTING Guy, OR in EVE, a noctis, then respec BACK to a combat class, and you'll have to about 5 times during each play session.

Cuz it's .. realistic.

Why is the total number of "likes received" a poster has inversely proportional to the quality of posts one makes?

Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#60 - 2012-06-12 03:53:39 UTC
Maximum Entropy wrote:
Now, if SWTOR was like EVE, it should be noted that a player can speed up the SLOW MOTION mechanism by unequipping all armor, traveling to the origin world, and respeccing to a completley different class, called the "speed up class." This class does no damage at all, and gets ONE hit killed by any npcs or players, and it costs 100 million credits each time you switch to this class, BUT IT IS AN OPTION, and because you have to option to do it, NO ONE can challenge the idea that you should ever need such an option.

So yea, you can just respec to a LOOTING Guy, OR in EVE, a noctis, then respec BACK to a combat class, and you'll have to about 5 times during each play session.

Cuz it's .. realistic.


Wait, didn't that game die or something?

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny