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The Voice of highsec
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Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-06-11 15:15:20 UTC
You might not satisfied with the attitude of the CSM towards the dwellers of High Security Empire space which was summarized by Alekseyev Karrde: "You have to deal with it... or stay docked... or play another game."

Instead of whining, let me introduce The Voice of highsec!

It is a lobby organization. We have no politicians (CSM candidates), but try to influence all of them by offering them the votes of our members if the politician supports the views of the organization. We do nothing in-game (maybe a Jita-march before the election). Our sole purpose is to influence the CSM election to get a CSM8 that supports our ideas. How will we do it? We'll have a big enough voter-block that is too juicy to be ignored. Highsec hold 80% of the players. We have 80% of the votes. We can own CSM if we start voting instead of crying on the forums to CCP that does nothing until the CSM speaks up. CCP listens to CSM. However most of the CSM members came from nullsec, representing those who gank us. They are ignoring us, but we deserve that as we are ignoring the election.

To make differece, we need votes. If you are supporting the ideas of The voice of highsec, you should join the corp to show it to the CSM. Of course you shouldn't do it on an active char. The corp will do nothing and probably will be wardecced in the second this post goes up. Join only with station trader or manufacturer alts, the ones who barely ever leave stations. Or simply start a new alt on an empty slot and join. If you have multiple accounts, you have multiple votes, so join in multiple instances. Join as soon as you can, as characters must not be on trial accounts or younger than 30 days to vote. Everyone would assume younger pilots to be trial alts created for the purpose of looking bigger. If you make an alt for this purpose now, make it Caldari so I don't have to learn Ethnic Relations 5. Also, spread the word in your real corp and friend list, ask them to join too.

The Voice of Highsec has three program points:
* less griefing
* more highsec/PvE content
* no power item shop
The details will be worked out. You can of course take part of that discussion too, but if you agree with the main points, you shall join! If we just whine, they keep ignoring us. If we present thousands of votes, they will start to care.

See the details on http://greedygoblin.blogspot.com/p/voice-of-highsec.html

My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com
Sheynan
Lighting the blight
#2 - 2012-06-11 16:53:35 UTC
The 80% cake is a lie.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#3 - 2012-06-11 16:57:27 UTC
*gets popcorn*

This should be atleast mildly entertaining ... for a couple pages atleast.
Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-06-11 17:13:18 UTC
Okay, let me load up this http://www.soundboard.com/sb/laugh_track.aspx sound board before you start.

"I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#5 - 2012-06-11 19:38:18 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
* less griefing


Looks like I'm going to have to disagree with everything you say if you want to limit griefing in highsec.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2012-06-11 19:42:23 UTC
I will gladly represent the interests of all my fellow highseccers as your CSM8 candidate.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#7 - 2012-06-11 19:50:00 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
You might not satisfied with the attitude of the CSM towards the dwellers of High Security Empire space which was summarized by Alekseyev Karrde: "You have to deal with it... or stay docked... or play another game."

Instead of whining, let me introduce The Voice of highsec!


Alekseyev is the voice of highsec!
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#8 - 2012-06-11 20:39:53 UTC
You don't know what griefing or risk/reward balance are, therefore you are irrelevant.

Big smile
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#9 - 2012-06-11 21:14:46 UTC
From their Website:

Quote:
The Voice of Highsec has three program points: less griefing, more highsec/PvE content and no power item shop.

Within these points there are lot of technical suggestions. Some are good, some are not, they are in constant discussion. Neither you, nor the CSM candidate need to like the particular technical solution to support us/gain support from us. The final implementation will be different from any plans anyway since it's formed in the discussions between devs, marketing guys and CSMs representing various groups. If you agree with the "less griefing, more highsec/PvE content, no power item shop" part, you shall join us, and if a CSM candidate is ready to support it in any form, he can get our support.

So here are some examples how I imagine the implementation. Repeat, these are examples, brainstorming start points and not official program points. Let's see the "less griefing" part:

  • •End ganking on throwaway accounts! --- The "EVE is real" concept is based on the idea that your actions effects the whole EVE and places you somewhere in the sandbox. You can be a the save a mining ship and gain acceptance to their corp or you can be a pirate. The uniqueness of EVE is that "your actions always have impact". You have the right to play the terrorist who kills for no reason in EVE. If you do so, you shall face the consequences: security status loss, kill rights on you and bad reputation barring you from corporations who don't like this activity. However ganking on a throwaway alt in an NPC corporation allows the player to evade the impact of his actions. The ganker alt is unconnected to the (often 100% carebear) main. The victim of the gank or those who'd choose to be "good guys fighting evil" have no way retaliating as the ganker alt is always docked when not directly ganking. Even worse, the ganker alt can be deleted and remade, clearing all evidence. This is an exploit that shall be closed: Ban all criminal actions on trial accounts and accounts made with the recruit-a-friend in its first 51 days (as it's also a free, throwaway account). Also ban all criminal actions in NPC corporations (some popup says "the rules of your corporation disallow such action"), so if someone choose to be a ganker, canflipper, at least he has to be wardeccable.

  • •Allow "vigilantes" to exists, PvP-ers who choose to fight "evil". -- One can enlist to the "vigilantes" as pilot, corp or or alliance, just as in faction warfare. You must have 1+ security status to join and you are in Concord sanctioned war with the "criminals" (pilots with security status below -1). They can shoot you and you can shoot them anywhere.


  • •Safe corporations: -- you are currently free of wardecs in NPC corporations. You shall obviously be wardecced if you hold sov or towers. However there is no in-between. PvE corporations are often wardecced, so the optimal way to play PvE is to play in an NPC corporation, alone, isolated from other players (no sane person would participate the NPC corp chat). We accept that EVE is PvP game where wardecs are reality, but we want to end being forced to play in NPC corp. So either make NPC corps wardeccable or allow making safe corporations that are equal to NPC corps but allow highsec players to play with each other.

  • •Hull tanking items/skills: -- many industrial and mining ships have most of their HP in their hull, yet the hull-tanking of the game is unfairly weak. We want every armor and shield protecting modules to have hull counterparts: hull-specialized logis (or equal bonus for remote hull repairers for existing ones), a hull-version of the "armored warfare link" gang-assist modules with their own leadership skill providing hull HP bonus and mindlink implant, "Trimark hull pump" rig, modules that increase hull resistance to the same 80% region where a well-tanked shield/armor can be. Give low slots to freighters, decrease their base cargohold to be the same as today if one fits nothing but expanded cargohold IIs on it, allowing us to choose to live with less cargohold but better tank.

  • •Fix insurance system: -- insurance fees shall reflect how safe someone plays and insurance shall not pay if one loses his ship while being an aggressor.


Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#10 - 2012-06-11 21:16:30 UTC
From their website: continued

Quote:
Examples for "more developer resources to highsec/PvE":

  • •More dynamic and engaging missions. Down with the static, "read up and do it a as a bot" aspect, make it an interesting activity.

  • •Planetary marketplace and corporate hangar: PI is a completely solo activity. Fix it by creating local mini-marketplaces and corporate hangars that only allow trading of planetary materials on the planet, so those who work on that planet can trade resources between each other. Highsec corporations can work together on planets, sending and receiving materials from the corporate hangar. The export and import is of course still taxed.

  • •Manufacturing contracts: the issuer provides materials and blueprint, the client pays collateral and completes the contract by providing the created item and the blueprint for the reward

  • •Simplify blueprint handling, let blueprints go to the marketplace, lowering the barrier of entry to production, making research a viable profession on its own.

  • •LP trade: you can sell the rewards you got from LPs on the market, but every LP earner must find the proper item to cash out. It would be much easier to sell the LP itself. Make LPs "Loyalty badges" that are items, can be sold or even looted from ships. It would make the life of missioners much easier, saving them from finding the "proper" item in the LP store to cash out the LP.

  • •Faction/corp standing trade: allow pilots with 6+ effective standing with a corporation or faction to create a "letter of recommendation" which can be used by other pilot who is below 4 effective standing to increase his standing. Creating the item would cost 5% standing decrease calculated the same way as completing a mission, derived modifications apply, using the item would increase 4%. This would create another activity and market for highsec dwellers.

  • •Deployable mining ships: Allow players to change their mining barge into a remote-controlled platform that mines on its own as long as the pilot is nearby in a ship, naturally in a PvP ship defending the mining ship, so instead of pressing F1-F2-F3, the player can fly something interesting while mining and could fight back to the gankers.


The Jita riots defeated the implementation of direct pay-to-win in EVE. The current implementation of PLEX let power to be transferred between willing players, CCP sells you no power. However CCP can trick it by sending bots to Jita to buy PLEX for ISK, keeping the price of PLEX higher than equilibrium, giving ISK to players directly at the cost of inflation that decrease the worth of the wallet of everyone. While every player is hit by a power item shop (nullsec PvP-ers were leading the way in the Jita riots), the manufacturers, miners, missioners are hit the most, since their activity is completely devalued if players can buy ISK directly from CCP. So we want CCP to declare in the EULA (which is a real-life contract, base for civil lawsuits) that only players can consume or own PLEX (via adding game time, getting aur or shooting it in a Kestrel) and CCP in no way or form remove PLEX from the circulation.

Feel free to discuss, suggest new points, but keep in mind that they are examples. The real demands we want from CSM candidates for our votes are "less griefing", "more developer resources for highsec/PvE" and "no power item shop"! Please note that the we are not demanding totally safe highsec, freebies or space-WoW content. We merely want content that we like and tools to defend ourselves.

To achieve these, join the Voice of Highsec corp with an alt to show how many of us are ready to vote for a candidate who represents us. Let our voice be heard!

To join, just press the corporation interface (eve menu/social/corporation) select the search criteria the same way as it's on the picture and apply as it's on the second picture. You'll be accepted in 24 hours. From there you have nothing to do besides logging in once a month for a second as 30 days inactives are kicked. If you are kicked for inactivity, you can re-apply any time. If you are rejected, I just misclicked (probably have to handle lot of invites), apply again. If you have question, ask on the goblinworks channel. I repeat: the corporation does nothing together and can be wardecced, so join only on an alt that does not undock.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#11 - 2012-06-11 21:50:42 UTC

So, questions for your new group:



1.) Wardecs are the sanctioned way for one corp to suppress the economic activities of another corp. NPC corps are gimped to limit their economic activities (No corp offices to share materials, high tax rate, no towers, etc). What economic sanctions are appropriate for a I-don't-want-to-be-wardecced corp?? A 20% Concord Bribery tax?



2.) Recycling characters to avoid negative security status hits or negative wallets is already prohibited by CCP. Do you really think force new players to way 2 and half MONTHS before they can participate in suicide ganking is fair to them??? You're essentially forcing players to be "good guys" for a fairly significant period before they can play how they want!!! Perhaps you should ask CCP to work on detection schemes that prevent character rollover, rather than banning new characters from participating in valid playstyles!!!



3.) Insurance changes? You already don't get insurance payouts if concord destroys your ship! Are you suggesting, in highsec, lowsec, or nullsec, if I land on an ratting drake and start shooting him, that if the drake shoots back after I started attacking him, that he should NOT get insurance for his ship?? And/or, are you suggesting that if the drake destroys my ship after I attacked him, that I should NOT get insurance because I started shooting?
Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2012-06-11 21:53:16 UTC
You'll have my hisec alts support! Oh wait..

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave
L'gonic D'gingar
Liber8
Common-Denominator
#13 - 2012-06-12 00:35:15 UTC  |  Edited by: L'gonic D'gingar
+ 1 . Yeah I gave up on the CSM. Frankly it is time for CCP to review the entire CSM concept. The entire Gonswarm fiasco via " The Milantti " was directly caused by the CSM office. My theroy is let CCP come up with ideas and if they fail. Then people will quit playing eve. I don 't need a bunch of other customers deciding how my service is going to be. Besides the CSM alway looks out for their style of play. Frankly in my heart of hearts I really think why there is so much hatred towards high sec players is the hope that Plexcards prices will be driven down. When CCP is back in charge they will listen to 67% of the players in High Sec verse the noisy few at the conventions and CSM.
Disdaine
#14 - 2012-06-12 00:47:30 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
* less griefing


Looks like I'm going to have to disagree with everything you say if you want to limit griefing in highsec.


Griefing is a bannable offence. What's the problem?
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#15 - 2012-06-12 03:49:42 UTC
CCP and CSM5 agreed to "vanity items only". Go read Fearless and understand the horror that would be released on the game if CCP decided to settle for "no power items". The three types of transactions identified were vanity, concierge and power. Concierge items were things like paying money to have more saved fittings.

Scatim Helicon would do a better job of "the voice of hisec" than Gevlon. Though I fear that statement is condemning with faint praise.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-06-12 03:56:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Gevlon Goblin
@Giznitt: Safe corp: no towers, same missioning tax as an NPC corp

Can you give any sensible reason why would a real newbie spend his time and very limited resources with suicide-ganking? I'd say every 1-month old suicide ganker is a throwaway recruit-a-friend account for a bored vet.

Why SHOULD you get insurance if you jump on a drake and the drake wins? I mean do you consider it fair to be PAID to pick a fight and suck in it?


@Mara Rinn: CCP accepted "vanity items only" in word of mouth. Do you see it written in some official paper?


@Disdaine: griefing is shooting someone without significant ingame gain. Aka "for tears"

My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2012-06-12 05:40:25 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
@Giznitt: Safe corp: no towers, same missioning tax as an NPC corp

You want "safe"? Stay in your NPC corp.

Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Can you give any sensible reason why would a real newbie spend his time and very limited resources with suicide-ganking? I'd say every 1-month old suicide ganker is a throwaway recruit-a-friend account for a bored vet.

Yes: it's fun.

Gevlon Goblin wrote:
Why SHOULD you get insurance if you jump on a drake and the drake wins? I mean do you consider it fair to be PAID to pick a fight and suck in it?

Hey, I have a better idea, let's remove insurance in its entirety.

Gevlon Goblin wrote:
@Disdaine: griefing is shooting someone without significant ingame gain. Aka "for tears"

Last I checked, griefing was going after one player in particular, or going after newbies in starter systems. Scamming some random idiot or ganking a random hulk isn't automatically griefing in the "we'll ban you" way, it's part and parcel of how EVE works.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-06-12 05:46:23 UTC
Also heh "CCP SHALL NOT REMOVE PLEX". That's funny. I'm sure that demand'll go down well.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2012-06-12 06:15:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
I love these highsec demagogues
this sounds somewhat similar to Issler's "Voice of Reason" party from the last election
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#20 - 2012-06-12 08:20:19 UTC
So, if new accounts are banned from crime, does that mean low and null are totally off limits to them, or just low? And why ban people in NPC corps from having fun?
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