Ships & Modules

Laser pros:
- T1 crystals are infinite
- instant lens swap

Laser cons:
- use a lot of cap
- only ever do EM/Thermal, both of which are two highest resists of armor
- to accomodate large cap use, many Amarr ships lose one of their normal bonuses for the cap bonus
- tracking/range issues with short-range turrets because of most range being optimal and not falloff

Are lasers/Amarr balance in general considered an issue by EVE players? Yes I know Scorch is awesome, but one T2 ammo type doesn't make for the entire faction/weapon system(plus if you use Scorch you lose the pro of infinite ammo leaving you just with the instant swap of dubious use)

t1 crystals are not infinite, they just don't break easily
Instant swap is cruicial when being tackled.

They use a lot of cap because they do a lot of damage, EVERYONE used lasers years ago because of this - so they increased cap cost and gave laser ships a cap usage bonus to accommodate this. You don't get 5% per level because they already do 20%-25% mroe damage than, for example, projectiles. THIS MEANS THE BONUS ISN'T LOST - IT'S BUILT IN.

The tracking is only an issue on the largest guns, below that it is still sufficient. Most guns lose % damage due to falloff, the same happens to lasers due to tracking. however the further away you get with lasers, the better they become - this is the inverse of what is true for other close range guns.

And the final point i cannot stress enough: Scorch literally is the best ammo in the game. The best. THE BEST. I fly all 4 races, and i prefer lasers over every other system due to the range they afford me, which in real fights means everything.

So the weapon sucks but because one ammo type for it is Awesome it's okay? Surely you must realize how ridiculous this is from game balance perspective. You don't fix broken mechanics with more broken mechanics.



Uh, no.

Turret ammo has exactly same damage values in any given group. For example small turret ammo always has:
12 damage total for -50% range version
8 damage total for no range mod version
5 damage total for +60% range version

Quick check:
Multifrequency S: 7EM + 5TH = 12
EMP S: 9EM + 2EX + 1KI = 12
Antimatter S: 7KI + 5TH = 12

Radio S: 5EM = 5
Proton S: 3EM + 2KI = 5
Iron S: 3KI + 2TH = 5

As for turrets themselves, lasers only beat hybrids in the case of long range versions.

200mm Autocannon I: 0.77 base DPS
Light Ion Blaster I: 0.9375 base DPS
Medium Pulse Laser I: 0.8571... base DPS

280mm Howitzer Artillery I: 0.5978... base DPS
150mm Railgun I: 0.6875 base DPS
Medium Beam Laser I: 0.75 base DPS

9% more DPS for Medium Beams... with 20% shorter range and over twice the cap requirements of 150mm Rails.



Uh yeah, and most Amarr ships get cap bonus which is exactly the issue here. If you were to choose between a cap bonus, which essentially only makes you cap stable 20-30% higher(and you don't care about cap stability in PvP anyway), or a +25% damage/range bonus, which one would you pick? Standard fit for a Punisher pre-Inferno was autocannons precisely because it had a cap bonus instead of a damage bonus.

OP

Amarr is probably the most balanced race in the game, yes some ships need tweaks but overall they're absolutely awesome, you've got at least one ship in each type that is useful/used and Amarr lasers are known for being good at pownage.

What's up with all the laser complaining lately? Lasers are fine apart from:
- fitting (lowest dps per grid consumed even when corrected for Amarr grids) With the frig balance CCP have 'balanced' this by giving the Punisher the same grid as a Cormorant (one needs to put on 3 guns, the other 8) and it's ok for those frigs now. Having said that, grid use is still to high, e.g. the omen, which can't even mount heavy pulses. I'ld rather see the grid requirements of lasers lowered rather than giving ships ridiculous grid to compensate.

- cap use (lowest dps per cap consumed even when corrected for Amarr cap AND cap use bonus) Amarr are the only race with ships whose capacitors run dry just firing their guns. The sad thing is that the cap use bonus isn't a bonus in the sense that it makes the ship better at something compared to others but only less worse. Compare e.g. to the Megathrons tracking bonus, which makes its tracking better than other BS'es and a genuine advantage. The other sad thing is that the cap use bonus doesn't work since ships whose only gun bonus is the cap use, are better off equiping ac's.

- downscalability: the smallest frig pulse is still harder to fit than the biggest frig ac. Similarly, the smallest/best tracking pulse in any class still tracks worse than the worst tracking AC/blaster in that class. There is no option to mount lower tier guns to get under the other guys guns.

TL, DR: lasers are bad but scorch hides this.

First : Amarr have no more problems than gallente to fit their guns ; they even had less problems to do so before the hybrid rebalance. AC guns have silly low fitting requirements, it's useless to compare anything to them for this point.

Two : Amarr ships are not the only ones to cap them dry just firing their guns, caldari hybrid boats tend to have the same problem and that was very worst before the hybrid rebalance. The cap bonus allow them to use this awesome weapon lasers are.

Third : the lowest tier laser hit farther than the highest tier ac or blaster gun (three ******* times the base range for 5% less tracking... and all close range ammo have the same modifier), hence removing the need for an awesome tracking. If you want to track at point blanck, use blasters ; if you want to hit far and have the largest range of optimal ranges, use lasers ; when in trouble with an ennemy too close, pilot better than himself. Each weapon have its strengths and weaknesses.

TL, DR : lasers are far from bad, you only need to use them for their strength and avoid using them on their drawbacks (hint : they are not autocannons). Pulse lasers are the mightest close range guns outside of other close range guns optimal range (which range is ridiculous) ; they are also the mightest long range guns when comparing long range gun with close range ammo (which is a bit OP).

PS : you forgot the infinite almost instant swapping ammo... of course it's useless because others manage to use their guns without it...

Umm. This is wrong. Meta 0 crystals never break. Ever. They don't take any damage when fired.

Faction and T2 crystals also have a lower cost per shot than any other weapon system. For what it's worth.

1: Blaster do more DPS than Pulse lasers because of the range difference. I'd love to hit like a blaster at pulse laser range, but its not happening.
2: You left out the fact that beams have significantly better tracking. Also, Railguns use ammo. Lasers use more cap because they dont use ammo.
3: Shameless Plug: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=114026&find=unread

You'd be surprised.

Also, you're underestimating the advantage of having a backup infinite ammo supply for things like w-space exploration and mission running, and misunderstand the distribution of resistances in PvP (when any tank is applied, it's typically omni, and shield is as common as armor).

Further, you've missed a couple things:

- Applicability: Lasers have some of the best overall applicability ranges of the turrets in terms of minimum usable range to maximum usable range, with substantial tracking numbers on pulses and decent close-in hit rates on beams. The only weapon systems that beat them on this are Autocannons and Missiles, and missiles have their own issues.

- High base damage: to compensate for the lack of damage bonuses on most Amarr ships and low damage-type flexibility, lasers just flat-out hit harder before modifiers, making them handy on partially-trained boats.

- Disco Fever: No other weapon type allows you to have a multicolored laser show just to mess with people. Well, OK, maybe smartbombs, kinda.

- Rifter with Medium Pulse Laser IIs
- Cane with Heavy Pulse Laser IIs
- Mael with Mega Pulse Laser IIs

Sounds reasonable.



Cane with ACs can hit for full damage @ 33km. Harbinger can't without three tracking computers and crap load of TEs.