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Factional Warfare needs to be nerfed
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Private Pineapple
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#81 - 2012-06-15 09:39:18 UTC
Widow Cain wrote:
FW warfare should be about PvP, IMHO they should remove the PvE componenets including plex and missions.

When I was in Caldari you couldn't get a fleet for PvP, but mention you needed more for some missions and you would get many people.

That is lame.

And don't tell me FW would be dead, yes, the PvEers would leave, but they don't count anyway.


Yes, they need to design a system that removes the PvE element of FW.

.
SAA Legis
Miners Mine
#82 - 2012-06-15 10:03:39 UTC
I see some people fail to grasp what ISK/hour is.

It's not three unrestricteds +15% minmatar bonus for 103500 LPs that magically turn into ISK on the spot.

It's all the hours from undocking. to finding plex, to running them, to going to the LP shop, to selling whatever you exchanged your LPs for.
Private Pineapple
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#83 - 2012-06-15 10:12:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Private Pineapple
SAA Legis wrote:
I see some people fail to grasp what ISK/hour is.

It's not three unrestricteds +15% minmatar bonus for 103500 LPs that magically turn into ISK on the spot.

It's all the hours from undocking. to finding plex, to running them, to going to the LP shop, to selling whatever you exchanged your LPs for.


I earned 95k LP yesterday by doing **** all in 3 hours. I will later magically change that into 300m-500m (depends on whether my 5000 ISK/LP items are still alive). How's that for easy ISK/hour on a young character still on his 14 free days of trial?

By the way, I never have to undock. I simply login and do plexes until I log off in space and repeat at some other time. I can get to plexing immediately this way. I later turn huge amounts of LP into items and haul them off somewhere for massive profits.

Honestly, I'm just waiting for T5 so I can milk the market for all it's worth before it crashes to bottom level prices (+5's for cheaper than +4's? Sign me up!). Pretty much all items will be going for 5000-10000 ISK/LP before the market crashes properly.

.
SAA Legis
Miners Mine
#84 - 2012-06-15 10:38:39 UTC
You still fail at Business 101.

You can't exclude the time (or the outsourcing costs) for traveling, exchanging LPs, hauling, and trading. The three hours you spent yesterday grinding for 95k LPs are only a part of the time you spend before you have ISK in your wallet. The correct way to calculate FW ISK/hour (not LP/hour) is adding up all of the activities undertaken.
Pisov viet
Perkone
Caldari State
#85 - 2012-06-15 10:45:47 UTC
Quote:
Factional Warfare needs to be nerfed

No they dont.
Unlike incursions, FW is actually newbie-friendly, and you dont have to have a 5b fit on your machariel to get into a fleet.
Unlike incursions, FW got an easy to reach ceiling of simultanous player jewing them out. 2-3 guys per system, against 200-300 people for each incursion.
Unlike incursions, FW promote PvP, being located in lowsec and far from gates.
And unlike incursions, FW isnt an isk-faucet. It's an LP-faucet, LP being traded for various items, you also end up with a semi-self-regulating system, where farming too much LP ends up devaluating these LP and the items they offers, which in turns devaluate your LP and your ally LP, but in turns makes your "product" cheaper for the rest of Eve.

TL; DR: FW is fine, and sounds definitely good to help revive low-sec
Private Pineapple
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#86 - 2012-06-15 10:58:52 UTC
SAA Legis wrote:
You still fail at Business 101.

You can't exclude the time (or the outsourcing costs) for traveling, exchanging LPs, hauling, and trading. The three hours you spent yesterday grinding for 95k LPs are only a part of the time you spend before you have ISK in your wallet. The correct way to calculate FW ISK/hour (not LP/hour) is adding up all of the activities undertaken.


Okay... how does the "proper" ISK/hour ratio even matter to my point? You're nitpicking the less meaningful parts of my OP instead of the good stuff.

Pisov viet wrote:
Quote:
Factional Warfare needs to be nerfed

Unlike incursions, FW is actually newbie-friendly, and you dont have to have a 5b fit on your machariel to get into a fleet.


So newbie-friendly, you don't even have to partner up with anyone else to do a major complex. Also, elitist militia players discourage new players from joining their fleets because "a newbie tackler is worse than an older tackler in an inty". Yes, I have been told this before and I have seen other people be told this. The system itself may be newbie friendly for finding fleets and going on a roam, but the community is not.

Pisov viet wrote:
Quote:
Factional Warfare needs to be nerfed

Unlike incursions, FW got an easy to reach ceiling of simultanous player jewing them out. 2-3 guys per system, against 200-300 people for each incursion.


How does this fix anything? Jewing our the plexes is precisely the problem. It doesn't matter if it's 1 player or 10 players per system, it is still a problem.

.
Private Pineapple
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#87 - 2012-06-15 10:59:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Private Pineapple
Pisov viet wrote:
Quote:
Factional Warfare needs to be nerfed

Unlike incursions, FW promote PvP, being located in lowsec and far from gates.


I will give you this except PVP still happens at gates because wartargets can shoot other wartargets without gate gun intervention. But yes, FW does promote PvP but the current system has PvE elements that detract from the PvP strengths of FW.

Pisov viet wrote:
Quote:
Factional Warfare needs to be nerfed

And unlike incursions, FW isnt an isk-faucet. It's an LP-faucet, LP being traded for various items, you also end up with a semi-self-regulating system, where farming too much LP ends up devaluating these LP and the items they offers, which in turns devaluate your LP and your ally LP, but in turns makes your "product" cheaper for the rest of Eve.


Minmatar faction items will crash. Amarr/Caldari/Gallente items will remain at normal prices. "Shared" items such as skillbooks, implants, datacores, etc will crash because of us. Anyone in Amarr/Caldari/Gallente FW corp or any other corporation they are mission running for will not be able to make a profit on +5 implants (or anything else shared by all LP stores, for that matter) because they will be dirty cheap in the Minmatar FW LP store. In addition, any mission runners for LP stores related to Minmatar stuff will cease to exist because the FW LP store will have the monopoly on FW items for much, much cheaper. Even at T4 we have the monopoly due to the 50% off ISK/LP price bonus. At T5 it'll be 75% off...

Essentially, once we hit T5 we will be the sole seller for many things.

.
Ramon Sohei
The Florez Law Firm
#88 - 2012-06-15 13:26:58 UTC
If you don't like Minmatar FW, you should come to Gallente. We squids sure will give you a run for your money.
Private Pineapple
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#89 - 2012-06-16 14:35:51 UTC
We are now Tier 5. Allow the market crash to commence.

It'll also be bumpy from here on out, continually going back and forth between T4 and T5, but we'll eventually hold at T5.

.
Private Pineapple
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#90 - 2012-06-16 15:59:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Private Pineapple
Private Pineapple wrote:


UPDATE:

I am at 14 days played and I have acquired 1.5b ISK off LP transactions alone. I honestly do not feel like I did anything to get that 1.5b. All I can remember is orbiting a button on a couple days and acquiring massive amounts of LP. I've only plexed for 4 days or so, all of the others were just me logging in a little bit and not doing anything. Based on how much ISK a player can make with no effort in his first two weeks (basically my point is a trial player can do this), I do not think FW is balanced in terms of risk/reward - zero risk, great reward.

And that's not even the worst of it. If someone played like me for 16 hours a day he could make 5 billion in 5 days easily. Probably more closer to 10-15 billion in 2 weeks. How is this balanced? You can put in so much effort into FW and get massive rewards for essentially zero risk. This is beyond ridiculous and it's boggles me that I know when I link this update into Militia channel, people are going to go "stfu pineapple FW is balanced go get a new haircut".

.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#91 - 2012-06-17 00:23:15 UTC
Instead of tags, battleship spawns should drop......


















TECHNETIUM.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Meldorn Vaash
State War Academy
Caldari State
#92 - 2012-06-17 00:29:45 UTC
If you're feeling guilty about all that isk you've made, feel free to send a couple billion my way.


Enjoy it while you can.... You never know when the NERF BAT will strike...
"Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes."
Tony Two Bullet
Monocle Madness
#93 - 2012-06-17 02:27:19 UTC

Nothing wrong with lots of easy money.

Shocked

CEO  Monocle Madness ~ Mega-Insane Lotteries for the Mentally Unstable http://www.monoclemadness.com
MadMuppet
Critical Mass Inc
#94 - 2012-06-17 04:45:40 UTC
The speed tanking needs to be addressed as well as the 16 jump one way mission crap. Even with the LP I have earned, the isk cost at the LP store for Amarr has me realizing that this is a waste of time. I enjoyed the fights , but the speed-tank warp out guys that can pull down our plexs is an exercise in futility.

Those that I have flown with lately, thanks for the ride. I'll come back when this is better.

This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.

"If you are part of the problem, you will be nerfed." -MadMuppet
Super Chair
Project Cerberus
Templis CALSF
#95 - 2012-06-17 05:16:03 UTC
A lot of guys I know are in FW for the pvp, when the expansion hit there was tons of small gang pvp to be had. It was great. Now, after chasing farmers for nearly a month, neither side really defensive plexes much. Right now there is more incentive to let systems fall to farmers rather than defending because you're not going to get pvp or LP chasing them out of a plex while defending, so might as well let the system fall and at least get LP for plexing. The lack of incentive to defend ends up in less pvp as everyone is too busy farming eachothers systems rather than *gasp* fighting over systems. FW shouldn't be Farmville, it should be about pvp.


All npcs should be killed in order to capture an offensive plex. This is quite obviously needed to stop speed tanking, but there also needs to be some sort of incentive to defensive plex (other than the fact that you live in a system that's being attacked) to ensure that both parties are in the plex at the same time, fighting, like it's supposed to be.
Aya Hekki
State War Academy
Caldari State
#96 - 2012-06-17 08:23:32 UTC

1- LP Tier system should be removed all together, and revert back to the pre-inferno prices.
2- The current useless system upgrades should be changed to something useful.
3- Remove E-war from all plexes.
4- Give half the LP for defensive plexing.

here, i fixed FW for all of you, come on CCP get to work, thank you.

I'm really sick and tired of all the whining floating around FW, plexs were like this since empyrean, still ... minmatar had their bad eras and good eras, so obviously the plexs aren't the reason.
and frankly this amount of crying never occurred before, it only began when it is tied to isk making, which prove that you all are a punch of clueless carebears, that doesn't change the fact that it needs to be fixed iam just saying.
Private Pineapple
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#97 - 2012-06-17 17:55:35 UTC
Aya Hekki wrote:

1- LP Tier system should be removed all together, and revert back to the pre-inferno prices.
2- The current useless system upgrades should be changed to something useful.
3- Remove E-war from all plexes.
4- Give half the LP for defensive plexing.

here, i fixed FW for all of you, come on CCP get to work, thank you.

I'm really sick and tired of all the whining floating around FW, plexs were like this since empyrean, still ... minmatar had their bad eras and good eras, so obviously the plexs aren't the reason.
and frankly this amount of crying never occurred before, it only began when it is tied to isk making, which prove that you all are a punch of clueless carebears, that doesn't change the fact that it needs to be fixed iam just saying.


People go where the action* goes.

*Making ISK is also considered "action"

So when the recent changes opened FW up to being a massive ISK printing machine, people flocked to FW for easy ISK and this thread only serves to bring more people on the FW train because that's the only way to get CCP to fix anything.

.
SAA Legis
Miners Mine
#98 - 2012-06-17 18:14:21 UTC
FW doesn't introduce ISK into EVE. There's no printing. In fact, it's an ISK sink. When you get an implant off the store for LP+ISK, you remove ISK from the game, reducing inflation.

FW is an ISK redistributor. Players with lots of ISK are willing to pay for the LP store stuff. Who are they? Maybe ex-incursion runners. Maybe sanctum runners. Maybe L4 blitzers. Maybe moon goo rich goons. Maybe PLEX sellers. Maybe market speculators. At any rate, they are people who have more billions than you do, and who more often than not got their billions with just as little work as you do now.
Jayrendo Karr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#99 - 2012-06-17 19:14:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Jayrendo Karr
Simpler solution Sniper NPC's, and a fair amount of em. You cant speed tank 6 long range apocs forming a crossfire.
Aya Hekki
State War Academy
Caldari State
#100 - 2012-06-17 19:28:50 UTC
SAA Legis wrote:
FW doesn't introduce ISK into EVE. There's no printing. In fact, it's an ISK sink. When you get an implant off the store for LP+ISK, you remove ISK from the game, reducing inflation.

FW is an ISK redistributor. Players with lots of ISK are willing to pay for the LP store stuff. Who are they? Maybe ex-incursion runners. Maybe sanctum runners. Maybe L4 blitzers. Maybe moon goo rich goons. Maybe PLEX sellers. Maybe market speculators. At any rate, they are people who have more billions than you do, and who more often than not got their billions with just as little work as you do now.


Spot on