Player Features and Ideas Discussion

This seems an awful lot like the tail wagging the dog. The goals need to be defined first. What is FW and what are FW plexes intended to do/solve?

1. Facilitate PVP by creating a permanent, storyline wardec.
2. Create consequences around that storyline, that rewards or punishes those involved for thier actions and those of their militia.
3. Make it fair. That is to say the opportunities, consequences and challenges should be equal, at least from the beginning.
4. Create a feedback loop(s) that serve(s) to self-correct events should one side pull too far ahead of the other (or in this case, start far ahead of the other), that fit into the storyline, and make logical sense.
5. Create a forum or format for PVP to occur, territory to be gained or lost, and consequences to be realized.

The OP's issue with plexes is just one indication where the current system comes short from the 4 goals I've suggested above.

One suggestion, making plex NPC's like Incursion NPC's, doesn't work well because often you will have to do battle with both the plex NPC's and any Militia targets that choose to defend the plex. This would make offensive plexing considerably more difficult in certiain situations, thus decreasing the amount of actual PVP you get. This defeats our #1 goal, PVP. FW is primarily a choice for PVP.

Simply adding webbing or nueting NPC's doesn't really do much for the plex itself. You could argue that nueting is the worst of all, as low cap when an enemy warps in is not something you can quicly fix, like shooting the NPC that is webbing you is. Therefore, I prefer removing EWAR altogether, and mandating that all NPC's are killed in order to close the plex. This has the added benefit of making plex difficulty more controllable. NPC's at varying plex levels can be tweaked to require certain ships, or skills or mixes thereof to defeat.

BUT FAR MORE THAN THAT I'd prefer to see a broadcast system in place, and the removal of ALL NPC's from plexes. A broadcast system would inform the entire enemy militia presumably via the FW window, what systems have enemy plexe'ing them. This allows players the choice to defend a plex or not. This increase PVP.

I'd also like to see bounties for each PVP enemy killed, based on how much killing they do, set by formula and paid upon ship kill. I'd also like to see players drop Tags with the players names and milita rank on them, that can be keepsaked or traded on the open market, and used in the LP store. I don't care about Captian Insignia I or whatever.

I think rules should be made to increase LP and bounties on enemy militia PVP ships. Or if someone can think of another, better way to encourage PVP, by all means. We want people to jump into plexes to capture them, and enemies jumping in right after them to defend them. Perhaps a defensive LP payout equal (or some ratio of) to the offensive LP payout should be given if the defenders can drive out the offenders. Equally, an additional LP payout should be given to the offenders above that of the normal payout, if they are able to hold their ground vs the defenders. Ofc, this could be abused by players that play boths sides... but that is already being done by militia alts that speed tank empty systems, with less chance of anyone caring to stop them.

This makes much more sense to me in encouraging PVP, by rewarding winners and losers outside the base value of a plex for doing more than just speed tanking it.

Finally, from a macro perspective, I'd like to see some re-balancing mechanic at play. I think it takes too long to take a system. I think there isn't enough made of the bunker busting at the end. I think mechanics should be in place that the more systems you hold, the harder it is to hold them.

Perhaps the more systems you hold, the faster the plex timers go for the enemy?
Maybe the fewer systems you hold, the more LP paid out for defending them, as those systems are more valuable to loser?
Or maybe the more jumps from a factions home system, the longer the plex timers? Or More NPC's which would also make them worth more to take?

Or maybe all of the above, idk. But I do feel pretty strongly that the way it works now, isn't working all that well. We have Amarr players spending a good chunk of time as Minmatar pilots running plexes against Amarr for the LP.... which makes them Minmatar militia dosn't it? I don't believe that is working as intended and can see no way that facilitates PVP, and rather hinders it.

We have a relatively static front... maybe not physically, but numerically. The numbers may change by a few either way each day, but no significant progress has been made by either side since the patch as far as I can tell. Plexes are getting boring fast, with no real incentive to defend them. Here in FW, a good offense is a better defense... taking 1 plex for each enemy taken plex is better than defending a plex the enemy is trying to take. I'd like to see balance between the two choices.

Finally, the numbers I"m hearing of Minmatar LP payouts is alarming, and I have no confidence the Amarr will ever get there without some massive injection of players given the length of time it takes to capture a system, and what seems to be a growing lopsideness in favor of the Minmatar playerbase... even as it seems Amarr players are playing for the other team to compound this.

I think changes like these would benefit all FW pilots - Good luck CCP.

Chiming in here. See this proposal: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1458469#post1458469

What would implementing something like that mean? A T1 frigate could still cap 6 minor plexes in one hour for 60k LP (+X% due to warzone control level).

Using Faction Frigates as the currency of choice at 20 million isk/faction frigate:

Level - LP/faction Frig = No. Faction Frigs =~ isk/hour
L1 - 40k = 1.5 faction frigates = ~ 30 million isk/hour
L2 - 20k = 3 faction frigates = ~ 60 million isk/hour
L3 - 10k = 6 faction frigates/hour = 120 million isk/hour
L4 - 5k = 12 faction frigates/hour = 240 million isk/hour
L5 - 2.5k = 24 faction frigates/hour = 480 million isk/hour

The only issue the T1 frigate pilot would have is competition from other T1 frigate pilots to complete minor plexes when his faction hits L3 and above. He would have to move to L1 FW missions which earn far fewer LP/hour (perhaps 3k LP/hour).

Yes, faction frigate prices will drop or rise based on supply/demand, but still FW is very lucrative regardless.

My corporation is stuffing their hangers full of Stabber Fleet Issues and Minmatar Faction BS right now even though we participate in Galllente FW (to be fair to us we are also the leaders in FW kills so we're doing both pvp and farming). Running Caldari FW plexes is just as lucrative for Minmatar FW as running Amarr FW complexes. The difference is you need a few more skill points to fit into a T1 Incursus.

As a veteran player I would be happy with 30-60 million isk/hour especially if that involved making that isk while trying to get some pvp as well. That tells me 1) LP payouts are too high by about a factor of 2-4, and 2) the LP multiplier bonuses for "winning" and "losing" are way out of whack. CCP has the ability to adjust both.

Edit: On a side note. This expansion is likely one of the biggest isk sinks that CCP has created to date. :)

Not sure if that has been mentioned before but I would also like to mention the fact many people are making Winmatar alts and farm Caldari plex's (because i guess the plex's in Amarr space are already crowded by winmatars and amarrs due to the low amount of amarr space left).

I'm actually baffled winmatars get LP's for capping caldari plex's. In my opinion they should only get the standing bonus but no LP. If they want to cap Cal space they can join the frogs and if they want winmatar LP they can try to cap amarr plexes.

Also, in my opinion the modifiers should be changed regarding the LP store. x4 - x0.25 is too extreme. As the OP mentioned it makes a winning militia "too easy" and for militias who are having a stalemate it's basically crap. It should be like x3 - x1.5 - x1 - x0.66 - x0.33.

This is my two cents.

(there could be other more creative suggestions out there too)

Each side has always been able to run plexes on both fronts.

The key issue is rewards on all fronts are out of whack with effort. Your concerns are only concerns because Minmatar LP rewards may (or may not) provide more incentive for farmers to plex for Gallente than the ease of 1 day old alt farmers plexing for Caldari.

It also counter balances the penalty of everyone farming for winmatar. Amarr has 12 systems which means there is a limited amount of plex's that can be supplied. On top of that there is a much higher winmater and amarr militia member per system concentration. All this contributes to plex's being harder to farm on that front. Which, even if not enough, kind of balances things. I don't mind winmatar being able to cap squid plex's. The reward is the issue. Because right now it is easier to farm caldari plex's than amarr for the above stated reasons. Rewards should be kept on the militia's main front.

What I was trying to say was that the entire system is out of whack. Plexing in Caldari/Gallente space for Minmatar LP is only a symptom.

Given how many threads there are saying saying this and that needs to be nerfed, why not just nerf everything in Eve and have done with it?

That is correct. And while i would applaud better solutions that would fix the entire issue with CCP i have my doubts and thus also support some smaller and simpler tweaks.

I love with all the other threads (including one I started) and with the comments on CCP's feedback thread, the ONLY change is to remove the e-war. This will not fix things.

In response to the OP's apology to his militia - yes, they did get organised. But this ability to speed tank a major befpre Inferno combined with CCP failing to forsee that a concerted capture campaign when a system could be flipped in 5-6 hours is what allowed the minmitar to get to where they are. Every time they took a system, the amarr had to take it back. When they can speed tank (granted not all the time) and we have to grind out every plex by shooting the NPCs, it was bound to happen.

Currently Amarr are at 12 systems. The offensive push does appear to have stalled a bit in the face of things and I do wonder how much of this is due to our inability to finance the war vs the cheap faction ships (we all know the SFI is the best one in the game) that are making the minmitar money if they sell them, or just a cheap hull to fly if they use them...

People will say this is crying and to get out there and fight. I say I am happy to IF I can have the hand that is tied behind our backs untied...

The fact such a young minmitar militia member can make this article SHOULD set alarm bells off at CCP that their preceived solutions will not be enough.

It's called a 10 km webifier = Useless.

There is no counter to winmatar.