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How to defend your Hulk, Mackinaw, and Orca from suicide gankers
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Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#21 - 2012-06-11 12:00:46 UTC
Kusum Fawn wrote:
Victoria Sin wrote:
(1) Get a "friend" - give him a nickname like "Twit II"
(2) Give your friend stupid teenager personality and a free civilian gattling laz0r
(3) From (2), your friend will come into the belt or grav and fire on you
(4) He will be killed by CONCORD
(5) CONCORD will stick around whilst you mine

That is all.


this is sometimes an exploit, and sometimes not. it depends on the gm handling the petition, even after it was described in detail before the gallente ice interdiction GMs are still not sure where this is, and can be cause for temp banning. CCP has not said anything that i am aware of to clear this up.


I would say it's less of an exploit than recycling alts for suicide gank duty in high-sec.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#22 - 2012-06-11 12:08:57 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:
I would say it's less of an exploit than recycling alts for suicide gank duty in high-sec.


Witch they do and bring no consequences other than maybe ban the related account witch is not proven it's done (I doubt), and everyone knows how hard is to make profits ganking enough stuff to buy plex for said account.

brb
Capt Retard
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2012-06-11 12:37:00 UTC
meta 4 bulkheads (local hull) and DCII is the best for a hulk. Add shield rigs and the requisite invulns and small cl-5 booster - et voila! a PITA to kill, that fat bit of tank is at the end of the attack not the start.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#24 - 2012-06-11 13:10:21 UTC
Quick answer 2 subj:
Mine in low/nullsec. No one will suicide there. Big smile

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#25 - 2012-06-11 15:46:02 UTC
Let's apply a little science and liberal dose of Pyfa. I'll assume this is using T2 strip miners. A well-skilled pilot in a basic mining Hulk will get around 9.15k EHP, 6.33k raw. That breaks down like this:

Shield: 4.11k / 1.9k
Armor: 1.88k / 1.27k
Hull: 3.16k (no resists, EHP/raw are the same)

With a naturally-low armor and only two low slots, clearly armor tanking is out the window. That leaves us with shields and hull. An obvious choice is a Damage Control II. This will double your hull tank and boost everything else as well.

Hull tanking: with the DC2, you get 7.91k EHP on the hull. Adding a Reinforced Bulkhead II bumps that up to 9.89k. Your hull is now tougher than your entire hulk was when we started.

Now for the shields. We've got four mid slots to work with. The bulkheads ate a large portion of available powergrid, so hardeners are the obvious choice. Still, we only have 125 free CPU. At 44 CPU per module, T2 hardeners eat a lot. However the "limited" metas are much easier to fit, at a 10% loss in effect.

The current shield profile is this:
EM: 45.3
Thermic: 56.2
Kinetic: 67.2
Explosive: 69.4

Two adaptive invulns raise your EHP more than any two hardeners, so I started with those. After a bit of trial and error, I got a T2 invuln, a meta invuln, and and two meta amplifiers: EM and Thermic. That fits with .8% of your CPU to spare. Drop the thermic if you can't quite fit it all. Also, train your fitting skills more.

Round out the fit with field extender rigs and you get 26.1k EHP without doing anything unusual. Against pure EM, it's 25.8k (lowest possible EHP).

[Hulk, passive tank]

Damage Control II
Reinforced Bulkheads II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I
Upgraded EM Ward Amplifier I
Upgraded Thermic Dissipation Amplifier I

Modulated Strip Miner II
Modulated Strip Miner II
Modulated Strip Miner II

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Now for the advanced mode:

Mine with other people or use a pile of alts. Seriously, fleet mining has all kinds of advantages. Most importantly though, is that the more ships you have in a fleet the more you can justify having a dedicated booster. Using the same hulk from above, a boosting tengu can put your EHP up to 33k - 31.6k EM. That's far more alpha than a ganker is going to want to bring to the field. What makes it even better is that the booster often goes unnoticed, and they'll bring enough to kill a hulk based on the 26k EHP suggested by the fitting.

So unless someone wants to throw away three tornadoes per hulk, you're well-protected from alpha damage. What about a catalyst swarm? In a 0.5 system (where fleet mining really makes sense) they can bring just enough DPS to pop your hulk before Concord shows and do it rather cheaply. For that, bring ECM drones. Have your entire fleet pack them, and keep them deployed. If anyone goes GCC in the belt with you, jam them all to hell. You'll collect hilarious killmails and save your stuff.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2012-06-11 18:02:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
^ That's a really well thought out post, and it has lots of good advice.

Also take a look at this advice by Agony Unleashed:
https://griefer-geddon.eve-industrialist.com/FightingHulkageddonv3.htm

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2012-06-11 19:13:15 UTC
might as well go all out.....

[Hulk, New]
Damage Control II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II

Medium Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Upgraded Thermic Dissipation Amplifier I

Small Energy Neutralizer II
Small Shield Transporter II
Small Shield Transporter II

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I

Light Shield Maintenance Bot II
Light Shield Maintenance Bot II
Light Shield Maintenance Bot II
Light Shield Maintenance Bot II
Light Shield Maintenance Bot II


[Orca, New]
Reinforced Bulkheads II
Damage Control II

Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
EM Ward Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing II
Siege Warfare Link - Active Shielding II
Armored Warfare Link - Passive Defense II

Large Core Defense Field Extender I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#28 - 2012-06-12 00:32:18 UTC
Mining while aligned: use webs, and approach the station / gate / celestial of your choice (stations are better). Insta-warp when nervous (like when you see a bunch of Brutixes or Thrashers on dscan or even coming out of warp).

The mining ships can even web each other, but they won't be able to dock or jump for a minute after warping away.

A triple web is plenty for a Hulk (about 9 m/s), but a quad web is just as easy (7 m/s).

You can use any hauler for this, but Bestower is the largest Industrial at level 1-3 skill, and takes less than half a day for any race to train to level 1.

A Scorpion is also handy (some people prefer a 1600 mm plate to the DCU II).

[Bestower, Quad Webber + Hauler]
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II

Stasis Webifier II
Stasis Webifier II
Stasis Webifier II
Stasis Webifier II

Small Tractor Beam II
Miner I

Medium Cargohold Optimization I
Medium Cargohold Optimization I
Medium Cargohold Optimization I



[Scorpion, 2x Quad Webber]
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II

Stasis Webifier II
Stasis Webifier II
Stasis Webifier II
Stasis Webifier II
Stasis Webifier II
Stasis Webifier II
Stasis Webifier II
Stasis Webifier II

[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Mr Beardsley
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2012-06-14 17:00:06 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Kusum Fawn wrote:
this is sometimes an exploit, and sometimes not. it depends on the gm handling the petition, even after it was described in detail before the gallente ice interdiction GMs are still not sure where this is, and can be cause for temp banning. CCP has not said anything that i am aware of to clear this up.
I would think if CCP doesn't want players to control CONCORD response time, they would make it based on a timer and not on the presence of the ships. But CCP rarely does things the easy way.


Or in any way that favors anyone BUT gankers, because the devs play the game to win (no conflict of interest there, no sir) and their mostly pirates themselves.
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
#30 - 2012-06-14 17:11:07 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:


Corina Jarr wrote:
I do prefer my method of mining aligned. Insta-warp for the win.

Another excellent point. It does require some getting used to, but if you make a bookmark at the right spot, you can maintain your ship at 75% velocity toward a warp point and gradually coast toward and over the asteroid as you fill your cargohold. Works best if you are warping off every time you fill your cargo.



I just go out in a shuttle or* a mwd frigate and BM 7 points. point 0 is right on top of the asteroid I want to mine. points 1 2 3 & 4 are 225+k out in a rough square pattern surrounding the asteroid with point 4 being roughly aligned to station. top and bottom 150+k above and below the asteroid for preliminary scouting instead of blindly warping into the belt. This makes it so you can align to the next point and spend relatively less time in a vulnerable turn, and can time it so you are aligning point 4 when your hull is almost full. If im doing all the belts in system the same way they are labeled 1-1 0, for planet 1 moon 1 point 0. I do everything by right click dropdown menu, sometimes i hover over them if i anticipate trouble.

Then have a BM at 0 on station above it because warping to station lately seems to drop you outside dock range, and have 2 undocks at random intervals out past 225k. Having lived in null, bookmarks are my friend.

You make a valid point, good Sir or Madam. 
Katja Faith
Doomheim
#31 - 2012-06-14 17:33:06 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
I do prefer my method of mining aligned. Insta-warp for the win.


However, this is easier, and will work in most cases. So I will bookmark this thread.


For the cheap seats, please explain how you mine while a) remaining aligned AND b) stay at "insta-warp" speed (75%)... Curious minds, and all that. ;-)
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
#32 - 2012-06-14 17:42:12 UTC
Katja Faith wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
I do prefer my method of mining aligned. Insta-warp for the win.


However, this is easier, and will work in most cases. So I will bookmark this thread.


For the cheap seats, please explain how you mine while a) remaining aligned AND b) stay at "insta-warp" speed (75%)... Curious minds, and all that. ;-)


Make bookmarks that don't make you turn tighter than 90 degrees, or get some web help. The window of opportunity for malice is relatively small during that time.

You make a valid point, good Sir or Madam. 
Katja Faith
Doomheim
#33 - 2012-06-14 18:31:57 UTC
Kijo Rikki wrote:
Katja Faith wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
I do prefer my method of mining aligned. Insta-warp for the win.


However, this is easier, and will work in most cases. So I will bookmark this thread.


For the cheap seats, please explain how you mine while a) remaining aligned AND b) stay at "insta-warp" speed (75%)... Curious minds, and all that. ;-)


Make bookmarks that don't make you turn tighter than 90 degrees, or get some web help. The window of opportunity for malice is relatively small during that time.


Unless you're being multi-webbed (no longer a solo venture), you still have to align and get to 75% power. Having a buddy web you means one of two things: a) a dedicated ship sitting there watching you mine (ok if Orca or Indy, I guess, but still a wasted oppotunity [you're mining, why waste one resource?]), b) your buddy is mining in an Exhumer or non-mining ship (no cap to mine AND web in a barge). Fleet ops? Sure, it works. No argument here.

So the suggestion of "mining while aligned" is very niche, requiring more than one account to do the mining. Something like this (a team of miners) is like dangling something tasty in front of a cat: it's gonna go straight for it.
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
#34 - 2012-06-14 18:42:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Kijo Rikki
Then go with 4 bookmarks I suggested first. If you turn 90 degrees or less you will barely drop below 75 and the vulnerable time while the ship is in turn window will be very, very small.

EDIT: scroll up 4 posts, i went into detail.

You make a valid point, good Sir or Madam. 
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