These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page12
 

Reactive Armor Hardener advice please

Author
Liam Mirren
#21 - 2012-06-12 09:05:27 UTC
Major Killz wrote:
I've had the chance to use this module solo on a Myrmidon and Brutix. It's not as bad as I once thought or what others have told me. As long as you deactivate the module @ the right time and then reactivate (reset resistence); the module works well. You'll lose some resistence @ the begining for sure. Provided the engagement last long enough. You'll benifit alot more from the module. Which makes more sense for active tank setups.

TBH any engagement where you use this module and explode relatively quickly. Using a EANM wouldn't offer much more. The outcome will be the same.


That still assuming you being shot at with 1-2 different damage types. If you get hit by lasers and projectiles at the same time the mod is useless. So again, in a pve situation it might work but still not worth it as you can fit the right hardeners instead, in pvp it doesn't work unless in some imaginary&ideal situation.

Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.

Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#22 - 2012-06-12 09:38:45 UTC
The main reason to use it now is because it is not stacking penalized (needs confirmation) and on larger ships that wouldn't notice the capacitor use.
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2012-06-12 10:38:58 UTC
For PvE its epic! try doing a long DeD site or pirate complex (maze)... by the last room you have an extra 60% resist (no stacking) on the prats specific dmg... nom nom nom

No Worries

Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#24 - 2012-06-12 11:03:46 UTC
ChromeStriker wrote:
For PvE its epic! try doing a long DeD site or pirate complex (maze)... by the last room you have an extra 60% resist (no stacking) on the prats specific dmg... nom nom nom



Nice info thx.

brb

Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#25 - 2012-06-12 11:30:04 UTC
Next patch will add a skill decreasing the cycle time of this module. See in Test Server Feedback for more details.

But the module really is not stacking penalized ?
Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#26 - 2012-06-12 15:01:00 UTC
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1370528#post1370528

There's already a thread on this. @ the time I didn't have the chance to use the module. After using it in some silly engagements.


My conclusion is it does work in general solo pvp situations I find myself in. I'm generally outnumbered. So, I'm dealing with multiple incoming damage types.

This module does require alot more baby sitting.

Infact. Everytime a new target starts shooting @ my ship I must reset the thing (deactive and reactive). Once thats happened. I do see the benifits in 45 seconds - 1:30 minutes. Mind you. I generally engage fleets that are pretty uniform. You're almost always takening incoming damage from 3 damage types @ most. It's rare for me to engage hella mixed fleets. When I do. They're big (4 - 8 ships) and I'm in a battleship.

Anyway. I'm just responding to the op. Don't care how others interpret my input. I'll be using this module for sure.

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ![/u]

Wiu Ming
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2012-06-14 01:03:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Wiu Ming
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Next patch will add a skill decreasing the cycle time of this module. See in Test Server Feedback for more details.

But the module really is not stacking penalized ?


if you're asking about fitting more than one, it looks like that's not permitted
if you're asking about penalties fitting it with regular hardeners, it looks like it's considered separately (so no penalty)
Kaikka Carel
Ziea
#28 - 2012-06-14 01:23:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaikka Carel
Then they'll make a T2, Faction and COSMOS types of it and all the caps will spare a slot for one. But this is a dubious design meant to boost only armor caps.

If you want it work on subcaps then:

- Fully adapts upon start of a cycle according to the damage taken during the previous cycle or maintains the previous pattern if no damage taken.
- Allocates ressists according to the amount of each damage type recieved or has a threshold of X% in the taken damage pattern before which it will ignore it.
- Make it stacking penalized since it's an actual hardener now.

Say Projectile EMP deals around 75/0/8/17 of each damage type.

1a) After the cycle at which first instance of damage was recieved the pattern builds to 75/0/8/17 or 45/0/5/10 in actual numbers.

1b) If there's a threshold of say 20% then only EMP type is chosen and the pattern is 100/0/0/0 or 60/0/0/0.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2012-06-14 06:44:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
EFT 2.15 seems to believe the module does have stacking penalty, at least based on the resistance numbers I'm seeing. If it does not show this in-game then EFT may need an update.

Kaikka Carel wrote:
1a) After the cycle at which first instance of damage was recieved the pattern builds to 75/0/8/17 or 45/0/5/10 in actual numbers.
This seems like the most sensible way to do it.

Another thing they could do is make it give +20 to all resists, and change them cumulatively, ie. when you have it all on two resists and they are at double amount, they would both be at 36% resist (like having two 20% resist layers with no stacking penalty). And if all were on one resist, it would be at 59.04%

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#30 - 2012-06-14 08:28:48 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Another thing they could do is make it give +20 to all resists, and change them cumulatively, ie. when you have it all on two resists and they are at double amount, they would both be at 36% resist (like having two 20% resist layers with no stacking penalty). And if all were on one resist, it would be at 59.04%



Actually some C-type or B-type (not at home to confirm so take it easy with numbers) with full skills will give you a little less than 40%, however you get stacking penalties. This module could use of some tweaks to make it worthy in my humble opinion.

Some player above seems to engage targets that never neut or at least his fights seem to last long enough for this module to adapt, fair enough and I'm happy for him it works, in my case it doesn't.
Even thou my blaster mega is tough enough/hard hitting (moves almost fine too, not like a stand still duck) in those situations I've tested this module it was far too long for it to adapt, usually where I am you find fast hard hitting ships and not all of one kind so I'm taking at least 3dmg types+drones witch makes my extra EANP or specific hardener (explo) efficient immediately instead of 1min or + later when I get close to hull (even thou Megat hull tank like a king)

If they're about to implement some skill book to decrease this delay then it might be worthy for more situations rather than specific, otherwise CCP will have to start creating modules for each case witch would be dumb.
For the meanwhile EANP+hole hardener for me it's not an option.

brb

Gabrielle Lamb
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2012-08-28 15:51:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Gabrielle Lamb
ChromeStriker wrote:
For PvE its epic! try doing a long DeD site or pirate complex (maze)... by the last room you have an extra 60% resist (no stacking) on the prats specific dmg... nom nom nom


Except it's bullshit cause all pirates tend to deal at least two types of damage. And EANM = zero cap use, often a big deal.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#32 - 2012-08-28 16:53:59 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Next patch will add a skill decreasing the cycle time of this module. See in Test Server Feedback for more details.

But the module really is not stacking penalized ?


I couldn't find this thread. Any chance someone smarter than me can link it? <3

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#33 - 2012-08-28 17:01:01 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Next patch will add a skill decreasing the cycle time of this module. See in Test Server Feedback for more details.

But the module really is not stacking penalized ?


I couldn't find this thread. Any chance someone smarter than me can link it? <3

-Liang


You're replying to a two month old post. Armor Resistance Phasing came out since then.
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2012-08-28 17:04:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Hrett
There is a thread on the RAH from earlier where I typed out a long post on how it reportedly works. It's one of the first posts in the thread. I just can't type it again on this device because it's long.

Long story short: its not better than a second EANM, it's generally better than a 3rd EANM if it cycles once or twice. It is NOT stacking penalized with EANMs, but it IS stacking penalized against a damage control, strangely.

I would also use it in lieu of a hole plugging active mod, like for the explosive hole on Gallente ships. I would also use one where you have logi support, as that plays to its strengths.

I'll see if I can find the earlier thread. By the way - the summary above is based on the math of others - I am just repeating it. I read it in a detailed discussion on failheap challenge, if someone wants to look it up.

EDIT: and to answer Liang, I understand the skill actually makes it more cap hungry too, so it's a double edged sword. Edit 2: Looks like its too late. ;)

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!

Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#35 - 2012-08-28 17:05:31 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
You're replying to a two month old post. Armor Resistance Phasing came out since then.


Turns out I've already trained that to 5. Probably a mistake. :(

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Marcus Gideon
Triglavian Assembly
#36 - 2012-08-29 05:02:03 UTC
Yeah, training the skill to 5 is definitely a mistake... unless they change the skill sometime soon (here's hoping).

As it stands, the skill makes it cycle faster, but does nothing to reduce the Cap draw.

So it will adapt faster, while it burns huge chunks of Cap (compared to a specific hardener) faster too.
Sturmwolke
#37 - 2012-08-29 09:32:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Sturmwolke
Meh. It's crap atm.
Basics are (some repeating the obvious) :

  • It stacks with DCU.
  • If you have a DCU II fitted, the Reactive Armor Hardener is only 87% effective - until any of it's resists exceed the nominal 15% from the DCU II.

  • It does NOT stack with armor passive resist or hardener.
  • In a sense, it replaces the role of a DCU if you're not too concerned about the shield + structure resist.

  • Cycle time is modified by Armor Resistance Phasing skill
  • L0 - 10 secs (4.2 cap/s : equivalent to roughly 2.5x T2 hardeners)
    L1 - 9 secs (4.6 cap/s)
    L2 - 8 secs (5.3cap/s)
    L3 - 7 secs (6 cap/s : equivalent to roughly 4x T2 hardeners or a T2 small armor rep)
    L4 - 6 secs (7 cap/s)
    L5 - 5 secs (8.4 cap/s : equivalent to roughly 5.5x T2 hardener or 0.5 T2 medium armor rep)

    Armor resistance is updated after each cycle completes.
    The stepping seems to be about ~3.5% per cycle (from logserver data, ingame display seems to round them to 0 decimal) - so it'll take about to 13-15 cycles to fully adapt to any 1 pure dmg type.
    Realistically though, full adaptation depends on the number of incoming dmg types. It'll adapt faster with 2 or more dmg types.

Short and dirty conclusion?
The stacking from the DCU is annoying as most armor ships (especially larger hulls) tend to fit DCU II as standard. The cap drain from the phasing is hugely debilitating to hulls smaller than a BS - you wouldn't want to use it in PVE either at skill L3 or above. It could be useful to capitals though, replacing a 3rd EANM for the phasing ability.

Edit: You can only fit 1 Reactive Armor Hardener per ship (just like a DCU).
Previous page12