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Fixing Gallente

Author
Jafit
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-06-09 13:37:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Jafit
Gallente are a race with some excellent ships for certain niche situations, but I think that they suffer from some fundamental drawbacks that cause the other races to overshadow them in practically every field.


  • Minmatar ships are faster, ACs have better range and better tracking, and they can do different damage types.
  • Amarr have better armour tanks and their ships give bonuses to resists instead of repair amount.
  • Amarr 'short range' guns have vastly better engagement ranges. T2 large pulse lasers have a 45km optimal with Scorch for the same damage as gamma. T2 large blasters struggle to get past 17km optimal. So Amarr don't have to try chasing ships around to get into range.
  • Caldari missile boats dominate all forms of PvE, drones are okay for missions but they can require micromanagement to prevent getting eaten, especially by advanced AI like Sleepers and Incursion rats.
  • Caldari ECM jammers are also more useful in more situations than Gallente sensor dampeners


Blasters have the highest DPS in the game but suffer from poor range, poor tracking and being attached to a ship that was built to armour tank. It doesn't matter how much DPS you do if you can't hit anything. The only thing that Gallente really excel at are capitals and supercapitals. My first character was a Gallente specialist, and it was awful, I ended up selling him, so now I advise newbies to train any of the other races first so that they can have more viable choices while skilling up, then they can crosstrain to Gallente later to get the decent niche ships if they want to.

So my suggestion for fixing Gallente. I think for starters they should rely less on armour tanking and have some ships be given more bonuses to shields, along with more midslots as appropriate. Let Amarr be the armour tanking specialists, let Caldari be the shield tanking specialists, have Gallente join Minmatar as the races who use whatever works best for the situation. Specifically I think the Brutix, Talos and Hyperion should have their stats, bonuses and slots rebalanced to become shield tankers. They're billed as blaster platforms, free them from their lumbering armour tanks and allow their lowslots for tracking and damage mods.

TL;DR: Retool some Gallente ships to use shields.

What would you do to improve Gallente?
S'totan
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-06-09 14:13:05 UTC
Learn how to fly the ships.
Thats my improvement.
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-06-09 14:24:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Verity Sovereign
armor tank on a ship that needs to be fast = fail (and with blasters, you need to be fast)
Active tank = fail in general, the way the game is now
Active tank with only a 7.5% bonus = mega fail (as its basically the same repping power as if you had a 5% resists bonus, + you lose out on bonuses to incoming RR, and buffer)

Gal ships often already have the slots to shield tank, and often are shield tanked.
Drop the rep bonuses from gal ships, and add stuff that increases their ability to apply DPS (ie tracking or falloff bonuses - I'm really annoyed that the incursus lost its falloff bonus - at least the active rep bonus is 10%, so it actually has a tangible advantage over a resist bonus to somewhat offset the loss of buffer and added EHP of RR)

In general, the race with the shortest ranged weapons should be the fastest.

Gallente are often 2nd fastest, but the speed difference between caldari/amarr/gallente is pathetic, the Minmatar are in a league of their own in speed, gall speed should be buffed to near Winmatar levels (if not higher).
- or for "blaster boats" with the current active rep bonus, replace it with a MWD & AB speed bonus, such that at lvl 5, the gal ship is faster than the equiv minmatar ship when both are ABing/MWDing

Drone boats don't need nearly as much speed, and I'm fine with them being as slow as the caldari and Amarr boats
Daneel Trevize
Give my 11percent back
#4 - 2012-06-09 19:24:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Daneel Trevize
IMHO we should balance to keep the racial differences. So don't aim for shield-tanked Gal as a solution, or more falloff bonuses which just makes them more like Minmatar & projectiles.

Armour tanking needs to lose the speed hit, racial speed differences should be enough to cover this diversity. We almost had this done for rigs but suddenly nope.

Active armour tanking needs to be better for PvP. As pointed out, resist bonuses give people more buffer, more benefit from RR, and similar effective active tanking figures. Active tanking in every case is very niche anyway, and highly vulnerable to many things, not least of which is being in heavy tackle range and neuted by ubiquitous hurricanes before you've even repped the equivalent EHP of having just fitted a buffer.

(A side note, the Large Cap Battery only reflects 1% of a batttleship's capacitor's worth of neuting per heavy neut cycle, this is a terrible solution to neuting, a medium (aka undersized) cap injector and one single 800 charge is always far better to fit, let alone accounting for said injector reloading and given you the cap when you need it, and 800 GJ rather than the LCB's 700.)

The only case against boosting the repping bonus right now to 10% or more per level is the PvE case. That's a terribly weak argument as Gal aren't good at PvE to start with, plus the Incursus just got such a bonus which would impact the lower end PvE, while top end Sleepers/Sansha/toughest sites & Level5s require multiple people and/or RR anyway.
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-06-09 22:24:26 UTC
I still feel the existing rebalance needs a little time. They are excellent small gang ships just not great fleet platforms. You perhaps need to reasses DPS at range with the new null compared to Minmatar. My first choice low slot mod is now almost always a TE.

There are still a few gaps with the rebalance though. 

T1 ammo could be rebalancd.
Information warfare needs an overhaul.
Armour rigs and active tanking needs looking into.
I am a fan of the rep bonus feel free to change them all to 10%.
Jafit
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-06-09 23:05:15 UTC
Alticus C Bear wrote:
They are excellent small gang ships just not great fleet platforms.


I don't disagree that Gallente have ships that are excellent for small gang PvP... But all the races have ships that are excellent for small gang PvP. Minmatar is certainly more popular, and I know I see more Hurricanes, Drakes, Tengus and Lokis than I see Myrmadons and Proteuses (or protei, proteopodes, proteae).

"But they're good small gang ships" really isn't a good enough reason to keep Gallente the way they are.
Mira Lynne
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-06-10 00:58:06 UTC
About the Rep Bonus: Should be removed and replaced with a Tracking/MWD/Something (Not Falloff) Bonus. Increase Armor Repper and shield booster repair/boost ammount by 30/40% (Also remove Shield boost bonuses from Minmatar)

About Rigs: Drawbacks need to change. Active tanking rig penalty needs to be Armor/Shield ammount/Cap use/Overload Damage bonus (Like on Shield boost amps)

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Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-06-10 03:26:30 UTC
Gallente ships are great, you just have to know how to fly them. All in all, Amarr and Minmatar ships are the most popular for pvp while Caldari and Gallente are the most popular for pve. Now there are Caldari ships that are popular in pvp because of their ECM, but that's a type of thing almost not used at all in pve.

I think there exists a problem with Gallente in that more new players choose that race than any other, while I would say Gallente is the most difficult race to start with. Learning to operate your range effectively is one of the most important and most difficult things about EVE combat, and Gallente get to choose between very long range and very short range, with no middle ground. Amarr are not a race I'd recommend starting out with either; they are for the most part locked into EM and Thermal damage, and it's very difficult to manage an Amarr ship's capacitor at low skill levels. Caldari and Minmatar are far easier to start with. I wish CCP would warn players that if they start with Gallente, to work on drone skills (vexor), or if they start with Amarr, to work on missile skills (inquisitor). And they seriously need to give Amarr a missile cruiser (tech 1), and Gallente a drone frigate other than the Imicus.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

leviticus ander
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-06-10 07:49:28 UTC
one thing that I've always thought could be one way to fix gallente and add some interesting factors to the game is for the entire set of ships from one race to have some radical difference in their function from the other ships. something like when a gallente ship has a MWD active, it can't be disrupted by anything (I'm not saying that should be it, just an example) .
PinkKnife
The Cuddlefish
Ethereal Dawn
#10 - 2012-06-10 17:15:07 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Gallente ships are great, you just have to know how to fly them. All in all, Amarr and Minmatar ships are the most popular for pvp while Caldari and Gallente are the most popular for pve. Now there are Caldari ships that are popular in pvp because of their ECM, but that's a type of thing almost not used at all in pve.

I think there exists a problem with Gallente in that more new players choose that race than any other, while I would say Gallente is the most difficult race to start with. Learning to operate your range effectively is one of the most important and most difficult things about EVE combat, and Gallente get to choose between very long range and very short range, with no middle ground. Amarr are not a race I'd recommend starting out with either; they are for the most part locked into EM and Thermal damage, and it's very difficult to manage an Amarr ship's capacitor at low skill levels. Caldari and Minmatar are far easier to start with. I wish CCP would warn players that if they start with Gallente, to work on drone skills (vexor), or if they start with Amarr, to work on missile skills (inquisitor). And they seriously need to give Amarr a missile cruiser (tech 1), and Gallente a drone frigate other than the Imicus.


No, and No.

Minmatar and Caldari are the most often flown. There isn't a Gallente boat in the top 20 ships flown in EVE at all. Amarr have the Abaddon up there, and I believe the zealot but thats it, the rest is all Min/Cal.

Also, More people choose Caldari than any other race.
leviticus ander
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-06-10 18:10:55 UTC
PinkKnife wrote:

No, and No.

Minmatar and Caldari are the most often flown. There isn't a Gallente boat in the top 20 ships flown in EVE at all. Amarr have the Abaddon up there, and I believe the zealot but thats it, the rest is all Min/Cal.

Also, More people choose Caldari than any other race.

the nemesis lost its spot?
Jafit
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-06-10 18:18:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Jafit
PinkKnife wrote:
Minmatar and Caldari are the most often flown. There isn't a Gallente boat in the top 20 ships flown in EVE at all. Amarr have the Abaddon up there, and I believe the zealot but thats it, the rest is all Min/Cal.

Also, More people choose Caldari than any other race.


Those statistics could be somewhat skewed by the fact that the CFC uses almost exclusively shield based ship doctrines. Maelstroms, scorpions, hurricanes, drakes.

Come to think of it, Gallente may see more use now with Myrmadons and Dominices with the new drone damage mods. I'd still like to see something done to make the blaster boats more viable though.
leviticus ander
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-06-11 03:44:48 UTC
although gallente will get a boost from the drone damage mods, drones are still too slow and easy to destroy to be viable as a primary weapon outside of dealing with carriers.
Kaelie Onren
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2012-06-11 06:44:15 UTC
leviticus ander wrote:
one thing that I've always thought could be one way to fix gallente and add some interesting factors to the game is for the entire set of ships from one race to have some radical difference in their function from the other ships. something like when a gallente ship has a MWD active, it can't be disrupted by anything (I'm not saying that should be it, just an example) .


Others may say that is a way to entirely break a race's balance, instead of fixing it.
leviticus ander
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-06-11 07:34:16 UTC
it would take a lot of thought to set it up, but if done appropriately, it could be a very interesting mechanic.
PinkKnife
The Cuddlefish
Ethereal Dawn
#16 - 2012-06-11 16:27:15 UTC
Jafit wrote:
PinkKnife wrote:
Minmatar and Caldari are the most often flown. There isn't a Gallente boat in the top 20 ships flown in EVE at all. Amarr have the Abaddon up there, and I believe the zealot but thats it, the rest is all Min/Cal.

Also, More people choose Caldari than any other race.


Those statistics could be somewhat skewed by the fact that the CFC uses almost exclusively shield based ship doctrines. Maelstroms, scorpions, hurricanes, drakes.



Possible, I'm just going off killboards, CCP has the stats on ships flown (not doing pvp). But for last year and 2012 so far no Gallente boat made the top 20.

While the CFC is huge, I don't think it is large enough in itself to push the numbers to 6-7 fold what the rest of the ships are clocking in at.
leviticus ander
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2012-06-11 16:35:27 UTC
CFC is something like 20-30k people. they could certainly affect something like that.
Mira Lynne
State War Academy
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-06-11 18:12:16 UTC
the only reason the drake is where it is is because of CFC or other nullsec entity that commonly uses Drake blobs

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PinkKnife
The Cuddlefish
Ethereal Dawn
#19 - 2012-06-11 18:54:00 UTC
leviticus ander wrote:
CFC is something like 20-30k people. they could certainly affect something like that.



Alts don't count as separate people. The CFC doesn't field 20K people at a single time or they would be 30% of all players online. EVE's all time record is around 60K people online. You're suggesting 1/3 to 1/2 belong in the CFC, which is a bit outlandish.

The drake is by far used for giant blobs, but it isn't the CFC alone that does it.
leviticus ander
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-06-11 18:58:04 UTC
PinkKnife wrote:
leviticus ander wrote:
CFC is something like 20-30k people. they could certainly affect something like that.



Alts don't count as separate people. The CFC doesn't field 20K people at a single time or they would be 30% of all players online. EVE's all time record is around 60K people online. You're suggesting 1/3 to 1/2 belong in the CFC, which is a bit outlandish.

The drake is by far used for giant blobs, but it isn't the CFC alone that does it.

I'm not saying they are always on. I was not expecting them to be. but they make up 20-30k accounts of the 400k or so accounts. while as a percentage, that's not a ton, it is a very considerable amount when you start looking at statistics. especially since they are a largely PVP while I imagine many of those 400k are pve and would not show up on the kill boards for the most part.
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