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Why some of us don't PVP as much as we'd like to, and what can be done to fix that.
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Aliaksandre
Screaming Hayabusa
#41 - 2012-06-08 14:46:20 UTC
Viktor Goldheart wrote:
Oh, and by the way, I don't mind losing an expensive ship, but losing an expensive clone and LOSING SKILL POINTS AS A RESULT, pisses me off.

Why?

Because SP, unlike ISK, can't be recovered, your character will be permanently ******** once you start losing SP.

This is especially bad on my main, who is missing 60 million SP because I had to quit Eve for a total of 2 years in increments, because RL was all over the place for a while.

So not only is my main missing a **** TON of SP, but now I have to worry about losing SP when I PVP, because in 0.0, pod death is almost unavoidable.

This causes me to not even feel like PVPing at all, for fear that i will lose even more SP.

I REPEAT.

ISK is NOT a problem, SP is, and removing attribute clones and just giving everyone +5 or just removing attributes altogether, would FIX that fear.

Also, the main reason people quit this game is because they are not having fun, because they are spending hours upon hours they would spend on having fun recovering their losses instead, SP loss and learning implant loss is a major contributor to this.

If you can't see that you are blind or stupid.

Also, not all of us buy PLEX.



What?

Clones can be updated so that you never lose SP, man.

/thread
Zyress
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#42 - 2012-06-08 14:46:36 UTC
Cebraio wrote:
Aliaksandre wrote:
Implants are a very poor excuse to not PVP.


Nope. My +5 implants are THE reason I do not PVP often (as in never anymore). Jumping between clones is just too cumbersome, if you want to get into some casual PVP fun in-between or roam through low sec etc.

I would gladly get rid of the implants, but on the other hand I don't want to train more slowly.

Speaking of removing implants: I would go with a solution where everyone gets +3 perma upgrade (maybe via skills) and where all implants except the +1s and +2s are removed (maybe make those two a bit more expensive). Thus we could have the same +5 effect as maximum but at highly reduced cost.


I guess you missed it when they removed Training skills a while back and refunded us our SP's
Cebraio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#43 - 2012-06-08 14:49:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Cebraio
Aliaksandre wrote:
Cebraio wrote:
Aliaksandre wrote:
Implants are a very poor excuse to not PVP.


Nope. My +5 implants are THE reason I do not PVP often (as in never anymore). Jumping between clones is just too cumbersome, if you want to get into some casual PVP fun in-between or roam through low sec etc.

I would gladly get rid of the implants, but on the other hand I don't want to train more slowly.

Speaking of removing implants: I would go with a solution where everyone gets +3 perma upgrade (maybe via skills) and where all implants except the +1s and +2s are removed (maybe make those two a bit more expensive). Thus we could have the same +5 effect as maximum but at highly reduced cost.


So, you are lazy. Cool.

Yes, I'm lazy and cool, but that's not the issue. The issue is: Flexibility and the lack of it. I can't just jump into a cheap ship and start roaming or jump into a WH or whatever. I have to switch clones first and after 24h I "have" to switch back if I don't want the increased training time.

With the aforementioned solution it would be possible to simply not care about the possibility of losing some lower value implants.

Zyress wrote:

I guess you missed it when they removed Training skills a while back and refunded us our SP's

I guess not.
Aliaksandre
Screaming Hayabusa
#44 - 2012-06-08 14:51:08 UTC
Cebraio wrote:
Aliaksandre wrote:
Cebraio wrote:
Aliaksandre wrote:
Implants are a very poor excuse to not PVP.


Nope. My +5 implants are THE reason I do not PVP often (as in never anymore). Jumping between clones is just too cumbersome, if you want to get into some casual PVP fun in-between or roam through low sec etc.

I would gladly get rid of the implants, but on the other hand I don't want to train more slowly.

Speaking of removing implants: I would go with a solution where everyone gets +3 perma upgrade (maybe via skills) and where all implants except the +1s and +2s are removed (maybe make those two a bit more expensive). Thus we could have the same +5 effect as maximum but at highly reduced cost.


So, you are lazy. Cool.

Yes, I'm lazy and cool, but that's not the issue. The issue is: Flexibility and the lack of it. I can't just jump into a cheap ship and start roaming or jump into a WH or whatever. I have to switch clones first and after 24h I "have" to switch back if I don't want the increased training time.

With the aforementioned solution it would be possible to simply not care about the possibility of losing some lower value implants.


You clearly don't understand how the market works. You think if +1 and +2s are the only implants in the game you can just "make them a little more expensive"?
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#45 - 2012-06-08 14:53:07 UTC
Viktor Goldheart wrote:
Oh, and by the way, I don't mind losing an expensive ship, but losing an expensive clone and LOSING SKILL POINTS AS A RESULT, pisses me off.

Why?

Because SP, unlike ISK, can't be recovered, your character will be permanently ******** once you start losing SP.

This is especially bad on my main, who is missing 60 million SP because I had to quit Eve for a total of 2 years in increments, because RL was all over the place for a while.

So not only is my main missing a **** TON of SP, but now I have to worry about losing SP when I PVP, because in 0.0, pod death is almost unavoidable.

This causes me to not even feel like PVPing at all, for fear that i will lose even more SP.

I REPEAT.

ISK is NOT a problem, SP is, and removing attribute clones and just giving everyone +5 or just removing attributes altogether, would FIX that fear.

Also, the main reason people quit this game is because they are not having fun, because they are spending hours upon hours they would spend on having fun recovering their losses instead, SP loss and learning implant loss is a major contributor to this.

If you can't see that you are blind or stupid.

Also, not all of us buy PLEX.


do you actually play this game?
Cebraio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#46 - 2012-06-08 14:56:18 UTC
Aliaksandre wrote:

You clearly don't understand how the market works. You think if +1 and +2s are the only implants in the game you can just "make them a little more expensive"?

I know how the market works and CCP has means to affect market prices to a certain degree. For example, I am not saying that the proposed +1 and +2 implants are the same that we have today. They could remove all 5 types and seed new ones.

Also, stop arguing in a way where you try to discredit me personally while you're not coming up with own arguments. Thanks.
Viktor Goldheart
Doomheim
#47 - 2012-06-08 14:58:12 UTC
Aliaksandre wrote:
Viktor Goldheart wrote:
Oh, and by the way, I don't mind losing an expensive ship, but losing an expensive clone and LOSING SKILL POINTS AS A RESULT, pisses me off.

Why?

Because SP, unlike ISK, can't be recovered, your character will be permanently ******** once you start losing SP.

This is especially bad on my main, who is missing 60 million SP because I had to quit Eve for a total of 2 years in increments, because RL was all over the place for a while.

So not only is my main missing a **** TON of SP, but now I have to worry about losing SP when I PVP, because in 0.0, pod death is almost unavoidable.

This causes me to not even feel like PVPing at all, for fear that i will lose even more SP.

I REPEAT.

ISK is NOT a problem, SP is, and removing attribute clones and just giving everyone +5 or just removing attributes altogether, would FIX that fear.

Also, the main reason people quit this game is because they are not having fun, because they are spending hours upon hours they would spend on having fun recovering their losses instead, SP loss and learning implant loss is a major contributor to this.

If you can't see that you are blind or stupid.

Also, not all of us buy PLEX.



What?

Clones can be updated so that you never lose SP, man.

/thread


You are probably either trolling or just borderline ********.

I am talking about those times when you lose a pod with implants, wake up in some distant place on a 0.0 station, there are NO IMPLANTS TO BUY ON THE MARKET, and you lose skill points because of that, because you can't just plug new ones in real fast.

Also, it's the same for the cases when you simply can't afford new implants.

It SUCKS.

The whole attribute implant thing is a massive pain in the ass.

But as I've said, you are either trolling or borderline ********, because every single ******* thing you've been posting so far has been some sort of huge logical fallacy or misunderstanding on your part.

Guess you should have used learning implants IRL, would have probably made you less stupid.
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#48 - 2012-06-08 14:59:17 UTC
Viktor Goldheart wrote:
Morganta wrote:
so you're mad because you got podded with a full set of +5s and come here to make up some crap story that the removal of said items will improve pvp?

wouldn't it simply improve your lossmails?

if CCP wanted to get more people to pvp they would grant us hulls on a monthly basis or a monthly stipend for all paying (cash, not plex) customers so we can afford to pvp and not have to hold down a space job to do it


Personally, I don't give half a **** about loss mails, friend, I am not a kill board *****.

What I do care about is my wallet being 300 mils more empty every time I lose a Stealth Bomber or a Drake.


Then be a cheapskate like me and only ever fly with +3's

its much cheaper...

frankly, the cost of a new clone is getting to be greater than my implants i think?

Also i got a pro tip for you... stop hanging out in bubbles

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
Aliaksandre
Screaming Hayabusa
#49 - 2012-06-08 15:00:09 UTC
Cebraio wrote:
Aliaksandre wrote:

You clearly don't understand how the market works. You think if +1 and +2s are the only implants in the game you can just "make them a little more expensive"?

I know how the market works and CCP has means to affect market prices to a certain degree. For example, I am not saying that the proposed +1 and +2 implants are the same that we have today. They could remove all 5 types and seed new ones.

Also, stop arguing in a way where you try to discredit me personally while you're not coming up with own arguments. Thanks.


That's because my argument is that everything is fine as is. Also, this is tedious, I hate arguing with people who don't understand the game.


Moving on to a new thread to argue with people who don't understand the game.
Cebraio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#50 - 2012-06-08 15:03:48 UTC
Aliaksandre wrote:
Cebraio wrote:
Aliaksandre wrote:

You clearly don't understand how the market works. You think if +1 and +2s are the only implants in the game you can just "make them a little more expensive"?

I know how the market works and CCP has means to affect market prices to a certain degree. For example, I am not saying that the proposed +1 and +2 implants are the same that we have today. They could remove all 5 types and seed new ones.

Also, stop arguing in a way where you try to discredit me personally while you're not coming up with own arguments. Thanks.


That's because my argument is that everything is fine as is. Also, this is tedious, I hate arguing with people who don't understand the game.


Moving on to a new thread to argue with people who don't understand the game.

Sure, everything is fine as it is if you're flying without implants or just with cheap ones. For others it's an unnecessary annoyance, just like the training skills were.

Assuming this is your main, you're from 2010. Sure you understand the game better than I. Roll But yeah it's tedious and I gotta work now.
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#51 - 2012-06-08 15:07:59 UTC
Viktor Goldheart wrote:
Aliaksandre wrote:
Viktor Goldheart wrote:
Oh, and by the way, I don't mind losing an expensive ship, but losing an expensive clone and LOSING SKILL POINTS AS A RESULT, pisses me off.

Why?

Because SP, unlike ISK, can't be recovered, your character will be permanently ******** once you start losing SP.

This is especially bad on my main, who is missing 60 million SP because I had to quit Eve for a total of 2 years in increments, because RL was all over the place for a while.

So not only is my main missing a **** TON of SP, but now I have to worry about losing SP when I PVP, because in 0.0, pod death is almost unavoidable.

This causes me to not even feel like PVPing at all, for fear that i will lose even more SP.

I REPEAT.

ISK is NOT a problem, SP is, and removing attribute clones and just giving everyone +5 or just removing attributes altogether, would FIX that fear.

Also, the main reason people quit this game is because they are not having fun, because they are spending hours upon hours they would spend on having fun recovering their losses instead, SP loss and learning implant loss is a major contributor to this.

If you can't see that you are blind or stupid.

Also, not all of us buy PLEX.



What?

Clones can be updated so that you never lose SP, man.

/thread


You are probably either trolling or just borderline ********.

I am talking about those times when you lose a pod with implants, wake up in some distant place on a 0.0 station, there are NO IMPLANTS TO BUY ON THE MARKET, and you lose skill points because of that, because you can't just plug new ones in real fast.

Also, it's the same for the cases when you simply can't afford new implants.

It SUCKS.

The whole attribute implant thing is a massive pain in the ass.

But as I've said, you are either trolling or borderline ********, because every single ******* thing you've been posting so far has been some sort of huge logical fallacy or misunderstanding on your part.

Guess you should have used learning implants IRL, would have probably made you less stupid.


so since you are not getting skill points as fast because you clone in some crappy backwater system with no market, you call that a loss of skills?

no, a loss of skills is what happens when you fail to punch out of a T3 before it pops
A loss of skills is what happens when you don't upgrade your clone.
not getting it as fast as you want is not a loss, it's poor planning and is self imposed
Yolanta Geezenstack
GWA Corp
#52 - 2012-06-08 15:18:04 UTC
Viktor Goldheart wrote:
If you can't see that you are blind or stupid.


So your statement has to be 100% correct. When people don't agree with it they MUST be wrong (=stupid).

I'm a newbie in EVE, so I can't really contribute to the discussion if implants should hold you back on PVP or not.

But I have read Karl Popper and know that with the above statement you have created a theory that can't be falsificated and thus is worthless. If you want people to discuss your statement you have to keep the possibility open, that you can be wrong.
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#53 - 2012-06-08 15:19:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuka Solo
I'm sorry.

Its called a home system in your medical facility.

You die, you spawn there. No implants, no problem.

Works like a jump clone. Feels like a jump clone. Isn't a jump clone.

Now go die in a fire.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Campl3r Athonille
Bluestar Enterprises
The Craftsmen
#54 - 2012-06-08 15:21:18 UTC
why force someone to do something he does not want to do? sounds like ****...

aaand jump clones.
Dakeen Kurvora
Doomheim
#55 - 2012-06-08 15:25:01 UTC
Viktor Goldheart wrote:
Price Check Aisle3 wrote:
Ahah! You're the alt of the alt who posted the pod thread, aren't you!

/If it weren't for you meddling kids! :shakes fist:


Yeah, I decided to make a thread for it because it was too obscure in the other one.

Actually I am the alt of Freezehunter, who is forum banned due to err "personal attacks".
Which is ******** if you think about it, since I can post on the same account with my 2 alts.


WTF dude dont claim to be me. I genuinely wanted to know reasons beyond just cause it's there. No proclamations of it needs to be changed or removed from me!
Viktor Goldheart
Doomheim
#56 - 2012-06-08 15:34:03 UTC
Dakeen Kurvora wrote:
Viktor Goldheart wrote:
Price Check Aisle3 wrote:
Ahah! You're the alt of the alt who posted the pod thread, aren't you!

/If it weren't for you meddling kids! :shakes fist:


Yeah, I decided to make a thread for it because it was too obscure in the other one.

Actually I am the alt of Freezehunter, who is forum banned due to err "personal attacks".
Which is ******** if you think about it, since I can post on the same account with my 2 alts.


WTF dude dont claim to be me. I genuinely wanted to know reasons beyond just cause it's there. No proclamations of it needs to be changed or removed from me!


What the hell are you talking about?
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#57 - 2012-06-08 15:39:12 UTC
Viktor Goldheart wrote:
Dakeen Kurvora wrote:
Viktor Goldheart wrote:
Price Check Aisle3 wrote:
Ahah! You're the alt of the alt who posted the pod thread, aren't you!

/If it weren't for you meddling kids! :shakes fist:


Yeah, I decided to make a thread for it because it was too obscure in the other one.

Actually I am the alt of Freezehunter, who is forum banned due to err "personal attacks".
Which is ******** if you think about it, since I can post on the same account with my 2 alts.


WTF dude dont claim to be me. I genuinely wanted to know reasons beyond just cause it's there. No proclamations of it needs to be changed or removed from me!


What the hell are you talking about?


he's alt posting that you're not his other alt

do try and pay attention, it may actually be the answer to your problems, paying attention
Viktor Goldheart
Doomheim
#58 - 2012-06-08 15:40:22 UTC
Morganta wrote:
Viktor Goldheart wrote:
Dakeen Kurvora wrote:
Viktor Goldheart wrote:
Price Check Aisle3 wrote:
Ahah! You're the alt of the alt who posted the pod thread, aren't you!

/If it weren't for you meddling kids! :shakes fist:


Yeah, I decided to make a thread for it because it was too obscure in the other one.

Actually I am the alt of Freezehunter, who is forum banned due to err "personal attacks".
Which is ******** if you think about it, since I can post on the same account with my 2 alts.


WTF dude dont claim to be me. I genuinely wanted to know reasons beyond just cause it's there. No proclamations of it needs to be changed or removed from me!


What the hell are you talking about?


he's alt posting that you're not his other alt

do try and pay attention, it may actually be the answer to your problems, paying attention

Oh, I see.

Well I wasn't even talking about him.
Virgil Travis
Non Constructive Self Management
#59 - 2012-06-08 15:49:53 UTC
Zyress wrote:
Virgil Travis wrote:

That's the real crux of the issue here I reckon, you're more concerned about what someone else is doing. I don't care if someone else has all +5s all the time and is training faster than me, Let go of that and it really doesn't matter much any more.


Had an animal house moment there... It just doesn't matter! It just doesn't matter! LoL


It just doesn't matterLol

Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims.
Random Majere
Rogue Fleet
#60 - 2012-06-08 15:52:12 UTC
I wonder how many people buy/sell plexes for implants.