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We Aren't Trying Hard Enough

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Romar Agent
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#201 - 2012-06-08 19:42:14 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
... Fun fact: The real world, where you have a job and taxes, is a pure sandbox. You *can* do anything, but you must acquire the prerequisite capital (resources), team (friends), and knowledge (science) to do it. ...
Aaand, I'm protected by forces paid for by my taxes... Which of course has nothing to do with say, the concept of Highsec and Concord...
Suqq Madiq
#202 - 2012-06-08 19:49:37 UTC
Tippia wrote:
As luck would have it, the majority of players are playing with the PvP sand.


Psst, I don't mean to alarm you, but your assumptions are showing.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#203 - 2012-06-08 19:50:10 UTC
Ginseng Jita wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
Or CCP can take 75% of their income and donate it to fund therapy for recovering kb-humpers. Same effect.Big smile


No, it just means CCP is so caught up in pleasing a small percentage of their player base, when clearly there is a larger portion that wants more PvE aspects added. I bet if CCP were to really do something about adding WiS and more PvE elements, this games subs would go through the roof.


I don't think this can be expressed enough.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#204 - 2012-06-08 20:03:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Natsett Amuinn
masternerdguy wrote:
Ginseng Jita wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
Or CCP can take 75% of their income and donate it to fund therapy for recovering kb-humpers. Same effect.Big smile


No, it just means CCP is so caught up in pleasing a small percentage of their player base, when clearly there is a larger portion that wants more PvE aspects added. I bet if CCP were to really do something about adding WiS and more PvE elements, this games subs would go through the roof.


Yep, but it wouldn't be EVE anymore. And I wouldn't be playing it.


Why? Because you'd never be able to fly ships in space? Because when you dock you couldn't choose to never leave your ship?

Because evolving the game to allow for more then just FiS would mean you can't PvP?

Know what happesn when a game doesn't evolve to become more then it's sum? It eventually starts to decline. Evenutally someone else will come along and offer the same basic game, and a bunch of people will go "well, I've played EVE for like a half decade now, I've done pretty much everything the game has to offer, I think it's time to move on." and they will.

Not even blizzard is able to make an MMO that is capable of growing forever. Why do you think blizzards next expansion has a bunch of NEW things to do in? Because they understand that if you want to keep moving forward you have to eventually evolve and OFFER MORE then what your playerbase has had to do in the past. MORE doesn't mean more of the same stuff, it means more new stuff.

PvP and spaceships can only take EVE so far. CCP does not impress me as a company that wants EVE to level out, but a company that wants to see EVE continue to grow.


The more people playing EVE the more money CCP makes.
The more money CCP makes the more people they can hire to work on EVE.
The more people working at CCP the faster they can develop content.
The faster they can develop content the more varied that content can be.
The more varied that content the more people that CCP can please.

WiS is the best thing CCP could do for EVE, people like the guy I quoted are the worst.
Kerist Lafayette
The Lafayette Family
#205 - 2012-06-08 20:18:56 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:


Yep, but it wouldn't be EVE anymore. And I wouldn't be playing it.


This almost made me cry
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#206 - 2012-06-08 20:23:23 UTC
Suqq Madiq wrote:
Psst, I don't mean to alarm you, but your assumptions are showing.
Good thing that it's not an assumption, but a CCP-reported fact.

Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Ginseng Jita wrote:
No, it just means CCP is so caught up in pleasing a small percentage of their player base, when clearly there is a larger portion that wants more PvE aspects added. I bet if CCP were to really do something about adding WiS and more PvE elements, this games subs would go through the roof.
I don't think this can be expressed enough.
Yes, you have to repeat made-up claims for a long while before people begin to forget that they're made up.

The survey does not show that CCP is caught up in pleasing a small percentage of their player base (as a different survey shows, 75% of EVE players enjoy PvP, which is a larger percentage than pretty much every other activity in the game). This survey shows that 25% of players had PvP as a motivation for starting to play EVE. If you want to construe that as working on PvP only pleases 25% of the players, then guess what? Working on PvE would only please fewer than 6% of the players, according to the same survey.

That's right: if you choose to misinterpret the survey that badly, then the same logic dictates that we can conclude that working on PvE content is less relevant for EVE than maintaining the Mac client.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#207 - 2012-06-08 20:31:56 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Suqq Madiq wrote:
Psst, I don't mean to alarm you, but your assumptions are showing.
Good thing that it's not an assumption, but a CCP-reported fact.

Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Ginseng Jita wrote:
No, it just means CCP is so caught up in pleasing a small percentage of their player base, when clearly there is a larger portion that wants more PvE aspects added. I bet if CCP were to really do something about adding WiS and more PvE elements, this games subs would go through the roof.
I don't think this can be expressed enough.
Yes, you have to repeat made-up claims for a long while before people begin to forget that they're made up.

The survey does not show that CCP is caught up in pleasing a small percentage of their player base (as a different survey shows, 75% of EVE players enjoy PvP, which is a larger percentage than pretty much every other activity in the game). This survey shows that 25% of players had PvP as a motivation for starting to play EVE. If you want to construe that as working on PvP only pleases 25% of the players, then guess what? Working on PvE would only please fewer than 6% of the players, according to the same survey.

That's right: if you choose to misinterpret the survey that badly, then the same logic dictates that we can conclude that working on PvE content is less relevant for EVE than maintaining the Mac client.

One thing that could be worth considering is the number of people who may have subbed were the PvE content more engaging. The idea that PvE exist solely as a means to fund (in most cases ship to ship) PvP and cannot/should not be considered an activity done for it's own sake is limiting what several players who have little interest in consciously engaging in PvP, not to say that they aren't anyways, can do to achieve any sense of accomplishment in game. If a game is going to tout that it supports a wide variety of activities in a sandbox, development and support should continue to develop all of those features and not just the most used.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#208 - 2012-06-08 20:57:41 UTC
Ditra Vorthran wrote:
High sec is for [insert my preferred playstyle here].

Low sec is for [insert my preferred playstyle here].

Null sec is for [insert my preferred playstyle here].

If any of you disagree with that then you're all f***ed and should GTFO! You're playing EvE wrong! Roll

Seriously people, EvE is what you make it.

You can take your rational balanced perspective and biomass it!

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Chief Bob
Swine Capitalism
#209 - 2012-06-08 21:06:16 UTC
Disregard That wrote:
Chief Bob wrote:
Dolt. I don't mine. I think non-consensual pvp in high-sec is great and should be encouraged. Don't have a problem PvPing myself on occasion, its just not what I prefer to do in the sandbox.

That wasn't a statement about mechanics or PVE vs. PVP. That was a statement about the prevailing attitude of null-sec players. I really could care less about e-peen measurements and the internet tough guy crap. I also have no interest in dedicating my life to EVE, no matter how good the game is.

I prefer spend the majority of my time in reality, and my leisure time in EVE. That's why I don't belong in null.

Dolt, huh? yes

Well, since I'm obviously so foolish it would be silly for me to point out all the casual gamers who successfully play the game in null-sec. you didn't point that out

You don't belong in null because you decided you don't belong in null.that's right

Your "reasoning" is an excuse or a justification, nothing more.didn't say it wasn't


my replies to your comments are in bold above.

Basically I find elitist d-bags to be annoying and I choose to associate with them as little as possible. I feel like there are more elitist d-bags in null than in high-sec, so I choose to reside in high-sec to minimize my exposure to elitist d-bags.

Maybe I am incorrect in this assumption of the denizens of null, it is based on what I see on the forums.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#210 - 2012-06-08 21:08:16 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Suqq Madiq wrote:
Psst, I don't mean to alarm you, but your assumptions are showing.
Good thing that it's not an assumption, but a CCP-reported fact.

Oh, let's not go with what CCP says now ...

Clearly the forumsgoers know what's best Big smile

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Doc Severide
Doomheim
#211 - 2012-06-08 21:10:20 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
Yep, but it wouldn't be EVE anymore. And I wouldn't be playing it.

Oh please stop teasing us with something so good...
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#212 - 2012-06-08 21:31:15 UTC
Chief Bob wrote:
Basically I find elitist d-bags to be annoying and I choose to associate with them as little as possible. I feel like there are more elitist d-bags in null than in high-sec, so I choose to reside in high-sec to minimize my exposure to elitist d-bags.

Maybe I am incorrect in this assumption of the denizens of null, it is based on what I see on the forums.

Should've tried joining a shiny incursion fleet.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#213 - 2012-06-08 21:31:40 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
Ginseng Jita wrote:


OMG - null-sec is for a few people that live eat and breath EVE. That is the truth of the matter. There are far more pople that play this game on a more casual basis. They are not interested in holding territories. They just want to play a sci-fi game. EVE is one of the only really decent sci-fi games out right now. If another triple AAA - good sci-fi game - was on the market - that had the same sandbox qualites - EVE would die.


Translation: I indeed affirm and swear I cannot cut it in nullsec.

I bet you used to do vanguards.

well. you are too close-minded....

Currently to settle in 0.0 you need to beat strong rich and powerful alliances already living in it. That's why you see the same political picture in 0.0 for years.

If you reset 0.0 (remove all current alliances and "great pvp-minded people" from 0.0) you will have empty space. Then people from empire will need to spend a lot less effort to settle in 0.0. There will be like in very begin of Eve: you just get your Iteron and go there. Fly 10-20 jumps and noone will even notice you are living there.

I guess first months people will not fight anymore: what is the reason to fight if you have huge empty space to settle?

Then people will grow up and build alliances. And everything will repeat: wars, blobs, 0.0 boredom.



I know a really cool place called NPC nullsec where you don't need sov or a supercapital fleet to eek out a living.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Gonada
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#214 - 2012-06-08 21:48:00 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
Ginseng Jita wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
Or CCP can take 75% of their income and donate it to fund therapy for recovering kb-humpers. Same effect.Big smile


No, it just means CCP is so caught up in pleasing a small percentage of their player base, when clearly there is a larger portion that wants more PvE aspects added. I bet if CCP were to really do something about adding WiS and more PvE elements, this games subs would go through the roof.


Yep, but it wouldn't be EVE anymore. And I wouldn't be playing it.



Then eve would still gain subs, make money and loose the small minority ?
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#215 - 2012-06-08 21:53:11 UTC
Romar Agent wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
... Fun fact: The real world, where you have a job and taxes, is a pure sandbox. You *can* do anything, but you must acquire the prerequisite capital (resources), team (friends), and knowledge (science) to do it. ...
Aaand, I'm protected by forces paid for by my taxes... Which of course has nothing to do with say, the concept of Highsec and Concord...


This is now how it works actually. I can run up to a person and shoot them in the head. No magic cop is going to pop out of thin air and stop the bullet from killing them. What is going to happen is the police and judicial system is going to do their best to ensure that I get punished for that crime: Hence concord.

You could wiffle waffle and make claims about how judicial sentencing is a bit more final than what concord does: But given the rates of recidivism in violent offenders: It's really bullshit. Also we exist in a system where the victim happily comes back to life after the "Fatal" shot. So the harshness of the punishment needs to also mellow out in order to reflect that.
Toroup
Prometheus Deep Core Mining and Salvage
#216 - 2012-06-08 22:02:09 UTC
Yes, because anyone who doesn't enjoy the exact same gameplay that you do must be wrong. And people will adopt a gameplay that they don't enjoy instead of just leaving right?

Did you ever think that maybe some people play Eve because they want to be a miner? Crazy I know. It''s like SWG, some people wanted to be Uncle Owen and not Luke Skywaker - SOE made the decision that everyone had to fit into 8 cookie cutters and you see how well that worked out for them.

Gameplay restriction - > Player Attrition -> Less Revenue -> Less Development -> No Game Growth

Go ahead, grief more - when all that is left is griefers and ships are going for Billions of ISK because supply has collapsed, at least you can look at your epeen while singing "I did it my way".
Disregard That
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#217 - 2012-06-08 22:17:15 UTC
Toroup wrote:
Yes, because anyone who doesn't enjoy the exact same gameplay that you do must be wrong. And people will adopt a gameplay that they don't enjoy instead of just leaving right?

Did you ever think that maybe some people play Eve because they want to be a miner? Crazy I know. It''s like SWG, some people wanted to be Uncle Owen and not Luke Skywaker - SOE made the decision that everyone had to fit into 8 cookie cutters and you see how well that worked out for them.

Gameplay restriction - > Player Attrition -> Less Revenue -> Less Development -> No Game Growth

Go ahead, grief more - when all that is left is griefers and ships are going for Billions of ISK because supply has collapsed, at least you can look at your epeen while singing "I did it my way".

300k subs say you're wrong.
12k new subs last month (estimated from survey data) also say you're quite mistaken.
Aoki Kenzo
Apotheosis Enterprises
#218 - 2012-06-08 22:30:27 UTC
I thinck we may force people to play solo pve. CCP should nerf low and 0.0 sec to get this goal.
Aoki Kenzo
Apotheosis Enterprises
#219 - 2012-06-08 22:31:58 UTC
Toroup wrote:
Yes, because anyone who doesn't enjoy the exact same gameplay that you do must be wrong. And people will adopt a gameplay that they don't enjoy instead of just leaving right?

Did you ever think that maybe some people play Eve because they want to be a miner? Crazy I know. It''s like SWG, some people wanted to be Uncle Owen and not Luke Skywaker - SOE made the decision that everyone had to fit into 8 cookie cutters and you see how well that worked out for them.

Gameplay restriction - > Player Attrition -> Less Revenue -> Less Development -> No Game Growth

Go ahead, grief more - when all that is left is griefers and ships are going for Billions of ISK because supply has collapsed, at least you can look at your epeen while singing "I did it my way".


You, mi friendly comrade, are right.
Disregard That
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#220 - 2012-06-08 22:36:26 UTC
Aoki Kenzo wrote:
Toroup wrote:
Yes, because anyone who doesn't enjoy the exact same gameplay that you do must be wrong. And people will adopt a gameplay that they don't enjoy instead of just leaving right?

Did you ever think that maybe some people play Eve because they want to be a miner? Crazy I know. It''s like SWG, some people wanted to be Uncle Owen and not Luke Skywaker - SOE made the decision that everyone had to fit into 8 cookie cutters and you see how well that worked out for them.

Gameplay restriction - > Player Attrition -> Less Revenue -> Less Development -> No Game Growth

Go ahead, grief more - when all that is left is griefers and ships are going for Billions of ISK because supply has collapsed, at least you can look at your epeen while singing "I did it my way".


You, mi friendly comrade, are right.

Let's say he is.

He and everyone like him got ran out of a game saying "I played it my way" in this scenario.

Not much room for :smug: in that, is there?

HTFU is CCP's message to the players.

Anybody still whining is doing it wrong.