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Here's a plan.
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Rath Kelbore
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#61 - 2012-06-07 18:53:00 UTC
At OP: I hope you succeed, truly.

However I will be placing my isk on the goons.

Have you ever lead a fleet and.or operation of this magnitude before? What makes you think you have even the slightest chance to succeed??? I'm not trolling, just asking. How many dedicated pilots are you hoping to acquire from a post in General Discussion???? How many pilots do you think you'll need??? How many spies do you think you will end up with??? How are you going to coordinate all of this?? Command structure ect?

It's all well and good to say "hey let's all get together and go blow up VFK, we'll use ECM and caps and ****". A lot more difficult to successfully implement.

Good luck.

Also, if/when this goes down, please let me tag along, I'll even bring a ship with guns.

I plan on living forever.......so far, so good.
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#62 - 2012-06-07 19:01:05 UTC
How about instead of vfk... Go for a system with one of their tech moons?
AllUrIskRBelongToMeToo
NuclearSpaceFishCapitalism
#63 - 2012-06-07 19:30:23 UTC
Ten years ago, a crack commando unit was sent to prison by a military court for a crime they didn't commit. These men promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade to the Los Angeles underground. Today, still wanted by the government, they survive as soldiers of fortune.


If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire... The A-Team.
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#64 - 2012-06-07 19:40:44 UTC
Yeah, but would ba's fear of planes and flying also lead to a fear of space travel?
Pax Deltari
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2012-06-07 19:41:31 UTC
Da faq did I just read?
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#66 - 2012-06-07 19:44:24 UTC
Jace Errata wrote:
- I've never done sov or null warfare before -
True, but I gotta start somewhere.


Yeah clearly the best way to learn how to run a sov war is to attack the main hub of the largest alliance in the game that leads the largest coalition

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Karadion Kohlar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#67 - 2012-06-07 19:56:34 UTC
We aren't prepared to defend VFK. Please don't attack us any time soon. We're operating somewhere else.
Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
#68 - 2012-06-07 20:03:24 UTC
It is a plan, I'll give you that...

I suspect the original poster will see me as a troll, but you're currently suffering from late stage unconscious incompetence.

You've created a battle plan despite admitting you know nothing of how large, sovereignty battles work. If people followed your plan they would die horribly, presuming they actually reached their destination, which seems unlikely. Moreover, you appear to be under the impression that an effective fighting force in EVE can be assembled by linking to your blog in the game's General Discussion form. Instead, it's utterly ineffective.

My suggestion would be to join a corporation currently engaged in battles against POS. Preferably, a winning one. Learn what strategies and tactics actually work. Gain a leadership position in that corporation and then attempt to form an alliance that can take part of Goon space. Of course, you'd have to worry about Goon spies in whatever alliance you have (very likely) and after you grab that space, you'd need to hold it from Goonswarm (also difficult).

If you're lucky, you'll get a kick the lion situation. Someone sees you successfully capturing a large enough/significant enough amount of Goon space and they try their luck, meaning Goon has to fight more than one battle. Maybe some of Goon's allies are dying to turn on them given the right chance.

What you don't want to do is send a fleet to the heart of Goon space just to be slaughtered. It strengthens their position because even if the fleet is composed of newbies and idiots, that type of crushing defeat makes them look good.

Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#69 - 2012-06-07 20:05:11 UTC
another armchair general chooses to share his insights

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Jace Errata
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#70 - 2012-06-07 20:13:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Jace Errata
Rath Kelbore wrote:
At OP: I hope you succeed, truly. However I will be placing my isk on the goons.

Thanks! That is probably sensible though.

Quote:
Have you ever lead a fleet and.or operation of this magnitude before? What makes you think you have even the slightest chance to succeed???

1. I have not. Smile 2. I don't really expect it to work, but I've tried to plan it so it might. Given the general reaction to the plan though, I think my planning abilities leave much to be desired Sad

Quote:
How many dedicated pilots are you hoping to acquire from a post in General Discussion???? How many pilots do you think you'll need??? How many spies do you think you will end up with???

1. I was hoping for at least 20 direct from the post, with those probably telling other people who don't read the forums about it. I was also hoping to pick up 5 or so via Twitter, who might also tell others. Unfortunately it looks like I'm not going to be anything like that lucky. 2. I estimate 200+ in order to bring down structures in a reasonable timeframe. 3. A **** ton, but the idea is that we won't let the obvious ones in, at least. Smile

Quote:
How are you going to coordinate all of this?? Command structure ect?

I intend to create a chat channel, and those who can may want to create a TS3/Vent/Mumble channel if there's sufficient demand. More tactical communication would obviously happen in the fleet channel (movement orders etc. included).

The command structure would be: me in charge to start with, since someone's gotta create the fleet (and it is my plan after all :P), then when I log off, I pick someone who understands the plan and knows what they're doing to take charge. When I get back, they stay in charge. If they have to log off, the same thing should happen, and if all else fails, a guy from the backing alliance gets called in.

Quote:
It's all well and good to say "hey let's all get together and go blow up VFK, we'll use ECM and caps and ****". A lot more difficult to successfully implement.

Yeah, starting to realise that Smile I did sort-of plan for my lack of nullsec experience by not having the fleet be the ones who do the main fighting, but instead just running vanguard for a proper alliance fleet.

"Good luck.

Also, if/when this goes down, please let me tag along, I'll even bring a ship with guns."

Thanks! And I will. Considering how few people seem interested, I'm glad to have anyone (Goons excepted, obviously) along.

(Sorry about the dodgy quoting, there's a 5-quote limit. Would be better if it was a 5-quote-pyramid limit rather than 5 separate quotes...)

Edit: woops quote fail

tweeten

One day they woke me up so I could live forever

It's such a shame the same will never happen to you
TheMstrBlstr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#71 - 2012-06-07 21:08:03 UTC
f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5f5
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#72 - 2012-06-07 23:26:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Khanh'rhh
It's probably not been said this clearly, so I will just say it.

Assuming you can "ninja" down all the cyno jammers in VFK there's not a entity in the game that could actually get enough force to flip the sov there (perhaps they would let some random backwater ratting system with no valuable moons slide, but not VFK).

It doesn't matter what plan was executed to take down the jammers, when you try to reinforce Mittanigrad you're going to get a response. If you're not already aware, this won't be on your terms but theirs (you can set it 71hours ahead).

Bare minimum, to start, it takes 3 hours for your SBU's to online, so the surprise is lost before the actual contest has begun.

You will need a few hundred people and somewhere north of a trillion ISK of fleet (trillions, really) to make this happen.

If you honestly think that forms up behind someone who willfully states he has no idea how it works, then :/

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Kyle Myr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#73 - 2012-06-08 01:48:02 UTC
Jace Errata wrote:

... Have you led stuff before?...

1. I have not. Smile 2. I don't really expect it to work, but I've tried to plan it so it might. Given the general reaction to the plan though, I think my planning abilities leave much to be desired Sad


Strictly speaking, this right here means no one should risk anything expensive following your banner, but it's up to them to do what they want. FCing different kinds of fights takes entirely different skills - the sort of practice required to roam through our space is different than what it would take to siege a moon. You're looking for more the latter type of experience.


Jace Errata wrote:

... numbers and spies?...

1. I was hoping for at least 20 direct from the post, with those probably telling other people who don't read the forums about it. I was also hoping to pick up 5 or so via Twitter, who might also tell others. Unfortunately it looks like I'm not going to be anything like that lucky. 2. I estimate 200+ in order to bring down structures in a reasonable timeframe. 3. A **** ton, but the idea is that we won't let the obvious ones in, at least. Smile


Raw numbers only mean so much. 200 High-damage ships would bring down a jammer fairly quickly (you can even calculate exact numbers by using your fleet fit and the jammer's EHP), but you also need to be able to take the field to do this uncontested. This means bringing a doctrine, with the mixed support that makes it strong, and possibly a mix of two doctrines, needed to take control of the field of battle. In this case, it means getting through the gate, out of bubbles, and on-grid with whichever tower has the jammer. Also, just because you cannot drop capitals in doesn't mean you shouldn't expect a few on the defender's side - fighting under a jammer is an interesting experience.

You may want more than 200 to take and hold the field - for boredom relief ops to go kill IRC super cap building POS, we tend to get ~400 mixed sub caps from our various doctrines. They're far from invincible tactics, but they tend to do well against even numbers of most types of sub caps.



Jace Errata wrote:

...organization?...

I intend to create a chat channel, and those who can may want to create a TS3/Vent/Mumble channel if there's sufficient demand. More tactical communication would obviously happen in the fleet channel (movement orders etc. included).

The command structure would be: me in charge to start with, since someone's gotta create the fleet (and it is my plan after all :P), then when I log off, I pick someone who understands the plan and knows what they're doing to take charge. When I get back, they stay in charge. If they have to log off, the same thing should happen, and if all else fails, a guy from the backing alliance gets called in.


Don't expect to get much done without voice comms, and good out of game ones, at that. Having multiple people who understand what they're doing sounds like solid logic. I'd advise using someone who has actually had some experience in larger scale fleets to do actual battle leadership, if you can't get at least a bit of experience before leading this.



Honestly? I wish you the best of luck. i outlined the dominion son system above to make sure you knew what you were getting into. Most of those timers I listed are terrible EHP grinds that really, really want you to field a sizable super cap fleet, or at very least a large Dreadnaught fleet. I'm also listing what to expect, as I was there on defense in my newbie Rifter the last time someone tried to invade VFK. It's still probably the most fun I've had any week in my year of EVE, and I hope for for experiences like it in the future. Pandemic Legion staging right next door, with IRC, NCdot, EVOKE, White Noise, Raiden, and others all chomping at the bit led to a great 1300 man brawl and a lot of protracted fighting. Get organized, get out here, and make some memories.
Jace Errata
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#74 - 2012-06-24 22:26:15 UTC
I'm gonna call a tentative infiltration start date of next weekend. I do have someone who might be able to provide caps, so this might go better than some people expect. I'll get a chat channel up on Monday if I can, Wednesday if I can't.

- If too few people show up over the weekend and following week, I'll postpone it. Unfortunately I'm liable to lose motivation if it doesn't look like happening, so I'll call it a maximum of three postponements before I just go "**** it" and join FW or something.

tweeten

One day they woke me up so I could live forever

It's such a shame the same will never happen to you
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2012-06-24 22:29:50 UTC
Proof this will end well:

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=11911041

Dodixie > Hek
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#76 - 2012-06-24 23:03:17 UTC
ElQuirko wrote:
Proof this will end well:

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=11911041


Dafaq?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Gaellia Bonaventure
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#77 - 2012-06-24 23:30:14 UTC
Because it's always smart to post your war plans on the Internet so they are available for everyone to see. It instills a sense of peace in the person you are targeting for attack and then suddenly No One Expects the Spanish Inquisi...oh, never mind. P

Bring your possibles.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#78 - 2012-06-24 23:33:51 UTC
Kyle Myr wrote:
You may want more than 200 to take and hold the field - for boredom relief ops to go kill IRC super cap building POS, we tend to get ~400 mixed sub caps from our various doctrines. They're far from invincible tactics, but they tend to do well against even numbers of most types of sub caps.

Drowning in drakes in VFK seems like not the best way to go...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
RAP ACTION HERO
#79 - 2012-06-25 02:15:56 UTC
christ post it don't blog it

vitoc erryday
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#80 - 2012-06-25 03:13:56 UTC
Kyle Myr wrote:
It's still probably the most fun I've had any week in my year of EVE, and I hope for for experiences like it in the future. Pandemic Legion staging right next door, with IRC, NCdot, EVOKE, White Noise, Raiden, and others all chomping at the bit led to a great 1300 man brawl and a lot of protracted fighting. Get organized, get out here, and make some memories.

Which reminds me.

Be careful what POSes you shoot. You might stumble across a tech moon somewhere along the way and trying to reinforce that will not end well either.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?