EVE General Discussion

I’ve been hesitant to bring this up, but I really feel I need to get something off my chest.

I’ve been around for about 3 years, in various incarnations. As an industrialist, I’ve seen a lot, done a lot, and lost a lot. I’ve lost a variety of ships. My first loss was when I wandered into a 0.4 system in an Osprey and warped to an belt and saw Asteroid (Jaspet) on my overview and went. “Huh. I wonder what that is, and proceeded to slowboat over to the asteroid (bookmarks were a foreign concept at the time). Some guy warped in, blew me away and warped out, leaving me sitting there going, “What the ****?! What did I do to deserve that?!”

Being a noob was reason enough.

My second major loss was when some friends and I were set up in a high sec pocket separated from the rest of the galaxy by two low sec systems. I got lazy and lost a weeks worth of work when I didn’t bother to fit my badger with warp core stabilizers. Silly me.

I’ve lost Hulks and Freighters, frigates and cruisers. I’ve even lost a Basilisk for lols when our fleet decided to jump into a larger enemy force for no other reason to let them know we weren’t afraid of them.

To make a long story short, I’ve been around the block. Like many, I’m risk averse, but not loss averse. I do my best to mitigate my potential losses, but take losses with aplomb when they do happen.

That being said…

There have been a lot of “Miners don’t belong in EvE” posts , with varying levels of vitriol and for the most part it’s rolled off me like water off a ducks’ back. For whatever reason, a couple of days ago, I read yet another one of those posts. Maybe it was my mood, maybe it was because I didn’t get a lot of sleep the night before, who knows. It really got me thinking, questioning my place in this game.

And here’s what I think. I assume you care since you’re reading this post. If not, then **** off and waste your time elsewhere.

I can take getting shot at. I can take getting ganked. I can take being hunted. What can I not take? Disrespect. I have spent the last few years becoming the best miner I can be, braving all regions of space, going where the ore is. High Sec, Low Sec, Null Sec, I came, I scouted, I mined. I go out in ships worth hundreds of millions of ISK with a sub-standard tank (at the best of times) for the sole purpose of making the bullets that you use to blow my brains out. And what do I get for it?

“GTFO, Eve is hardcore PvP. Miner’s don’t belong in EvE.”

Well **** you! Mining was the first thing you could do in EvE. You GTFO out of *my* game, I was here first!

Without miners and builders, what are you flying? Hopes and dreams? Maybe it’s the PvPers want to turn EvE into a Theme-Park MMO, because if all the miners disappear, the only way you’re getting the gear you means is quests…er…PvE. Is that what you want? A nice purple ship with orange guns that have augment slots?

T2 gear is made from T1 items as a base component. That T1 component is built with minerals. Minerals come from ore and ore comes from…wait for it…asteroids (and don't give me that reprocessed loot crap). Without minerals, you can have all the Technium in the universe and it’s worthless because you can’t turn it into anything useful.

“U mad bro?”

Goddamnit, you bet I’m mad! Even when miners learn their lesson, tank fit hulks, mine in covetors/battleships instead of exhumers, accept their losses instead of whining, and do all the right things to mitigate their losses and ‘do it right,’ apparently, just by being miners, we’re ‘doing it wrong.’ We just can’t win.

“Hulks aren’t suppose to be in High Sec.”

Well that’s a nice little opinion you have there, but until CCP bans Hulks from High Sec like they did Caps, then yes, they are suppose to be there. That you can hunt and kill them, and they still need to take steps to protect themselves, but they have as much right to be there as you.

I have a PvPer friend. He’s mined with me from time to time. He hates it. He thinks it’s the most boring thing to do in the game. I can’t remember the last time he hopped into his Retriever. He doesn’t understand why I like it. I’ve explained it to him and he is content to nod his head and go , “If you say so.” And that’s fine.

He’s not a fan of mining and I’m not a fan of PvP. He finds mining boring, and I find PvP stressful. That being said, he understands my place in EvE. He respects my role as a producer that makes his role as a PvPer possible. He admires, and is a little envious of, my skill with spreadsheets, my ability to product efficiency charts for different products, and so on. That doesn’t make me better than him, it just means that I have a place in the scheme of Eve. I do it very well. I add value to EvE, and he respects me for it.

Likewise, he is very good as PvPer. I can’t think the way he does. The strategic and tactical projections that go on in his head before, during and after a battle, I find baffling. At an equal skill/experience level, he would kick my ass for no other reason than he thinks differently than I do. That doesn’t make him better than I. He is just different. Superior at a different, yet no less important, aspect of EvE than I.

In conclusion, only ask for one thing. Not a ‘safe’ Eve, nor an invulnerable mining ship. Not even faster CONCORD response times or that ‘Death Ray’ that was bandied about at Fanfest.

All I want is respect. Respect for my role, respect for the value I bring to EvE.

R-E-S-P-E-C-T.

*whew* Okay, I’m done now. I've vented and feel better. Back to mining! :D

GD is the last place that you'll find what you are looking for. Just a heads up yo.

Oh I know. Like I said, I just wanted to vent. :)

Where I come from you earn respect, not demand it.


You get the obvious, a pretty and easy explosion. Some people aren't here for a challenge. They are called Miners, or Gankers. Even then, some people just want to have a bit of casual fun as a break from their normal activities.

That you choose to take a casual activity and make it your end-game just confirms exactly how much respect you deserve.

There is no reason to give the angry kiddies the time of day. Just be aware that many of the "gankers" are pluralists. They have gank alts, fleet alts, small gang alts, 0.0 mining alts, indusrtry alts etc etc.

Came prepared to troll.
Read it, nodding as I went.
Was very well said.

I agree, well said OP.

Not really.

There have been a lot of “people who whine about being subject to PvP don't belong in EVE” posts — miners just tend to be overrepresented in that group.

You get to answer the question “why do you choose to go out in a ship with sub-standard tank, when it's capable of fitting more than that?”

I think everybody, including you, should recall James 315 apologetic rants. This is where all of this "new hate" has started and you know it.

OK, I'll play along. Do you agree with all of the following?

1. Hulks should not be buffed in any way, shape or form.
2. Suicide ganking should not be nerfed again.
3. Wardecs, awoxing, can-flipping, and every other form of highsec PvP should not be nerfed again.
4. Highsec mining should not be buffed again.

If you disagree with any of the above, you are a carebear, and your whole post is moot because you suffer from the "one more nerf" syndrome which effectively means you do, in fact, want an invulnerable mining ship, etc.

If you agree with all of the above points, good for you. It's the carebears who give the other 0.0000001% of highsec miners a bad name.