Missions & Complexes

same old topic again, roll over and die or deal with it.

no more easy isk for you, go run L4s

lets see how long does this thread last

you sound mad, I just make 500m/hr, how much did you make??

To be fair, no one in their right mind is going to do group content that pays the same or less per hour than equivalent solo content. There's a lot more hassle (read: downtime when you aren't earning ISK) involved in getting to incursions, finding a fleet, waiting on the fleet to fill up, finding a new fleet when that one disbands, and so on. If you can pull in equivalent money in level 4 missions without all the downtime and hassle, who in their right mind would stick with Incursions? That doesn't mean people didn't enjoy the community aspect of it.

It's also worth recognizing that Incursion PVE content was at least more interesting than ratting anoms and the like in Null sec, and a lot of people used incursions to fund their PVP and to do so in a way that was more involved than other forms of PVE. I would not consider more involved and more interesting content to be "bad" for Eve because it drew some people away from mindless ratting and missioning by themselves. Surely you aren't suggesting that pulling people away from high sec missions to do more involved PVE content is "bad" for Eve.

The rewards needed a bit of tweaking, but given the populations of incursion systems these days, it's pretty apparent they went too far. Also, it's cute that you consider ratting systems to be "dangerous space" and that by resuming ratting they have " reentered the realm of PVP". Good for a laugh at least. :)

Doesn't matter obviously Soundwave totally destroyed the system with his shortsighted sledgehammer of nerfdom. He had to placate his buddies down in Nullpeen.

My comment was directed at ISK grinding. A lot of people did incursions to fund other activities, rather than pure enjoyment. I guess if you play the game solely for PVE purposes, you may have different reasons. However, if your goal is to earn some cash to fund PVP activities, then ISK/HR plays a large role. That said, it doesn't mean people didn't enjoy the interactions with other players in incursions, especially compared to other activities like ratting. It's also a bit silly that people can earn equal or more cash by doing PVE content by themselves, rather than by putting in the time and effort to form up a group and running group (Incursion) content. I fail to see how it's good for this game to force more people to rat and grind repetitive solo content, whether it's ratting or missions.



I referred to pick up fleets because most people did run with pick up fleets. I bounced between a few of the better dedicated fleets when I ran incursions, and I was never that big of an incursion bear to begin with as I haven't needed to grind for cash in quite a while. I did run with some pick up fleets though just to see what it was like. My point was simply to not just consider what ISN and the other groups pulled in per hour, but to think about what the average player was making from Incursions. When you factor in all the downtime that the average player put up with for incursions, it wasn't really that impressive of ISK.



Of course people were there for the ISK, but there were other reasons as well (namely, other forms of PVE in this game are a grind and quickly become boring as ****). Starting with the notion that players need to grind ISK to fund other projects in this game, the combat-oriented PVE options in this game are pretty limited, and there are only a handful of ways the average player can grind ISK with combat ships. If your goal is to bring in cash as quickly as possible, who in their right mind would choose a less profitable activity that also requires them to commit to a dedicated shiny ship and all the other requirements that come along with incursion running?

In short, and as the mass exodus from incursions will attest to, there's really no reason choose a group activity like incursions over ratting/missions UNLESS it pays more than solo ISK grinding. Just going through a few factors, reliable incursion running requires you to a) have an expensive ship dedicated to incursions (logi being somewhat of an exception), b) put in the effort to organize or join a group -OR- deal with pick up groups and c) commit yourself in high sec for some period of time. If I'm in null and I want to blitz out the cash for a new ship, how is it worth my time to JC to high sec, tie up 1b+ of capital for a ship, fly to an incursion site, find a fleet (which can include more waiting for a spot to open up) - all to earn equivalent cash to mission running or ratting (and less if you count all the wasted downtime)? In short, it isn't. It boils down to a ton of work for no noticeable gain, and so it's no surprise that people stick with other ways of grinding ISK these days.

That said, I fail to see how the game is better for it. It was good to bring the rewards for VGs down a notch, but it shouldn't be so low that it competes with solo activities for the average player. If you take the time and effort to organize 10 people, it should be more rewarding than if you go out by yourself and do PVE content. Likewise, if you go with 20 or 50 people for PVE, it should be even more rewarding still. As it is though, the rewards are pretty meager compared to the time and effort that's required and so people look elsewhere, which is really a shame. Hopefully CCP will restore the payouts to be vaguely close to where they were before, so at least incursions will be a viable option again.

To simplify current situation for the "Incursions are now fine" peeps ...

Isk vs risk&hassle = Not worth it in comparison to running even lowly level 4s

Group PVE is more fun but less safe when you need to trust your multibillion ship to random logi pilots that can be mentally 5 yearold, drunk, drugged, ganker, normal dont give a **** lolololo-internet dwellers.

You have the hassle of getting into fleets and no matter how superbly elite you are with 4 billion ship ... you still wont get instantly into a fleet.

Basicly all PVE is to support something else ... who in their right mind would ever do PVE as they main source of "fun" ... I mean pve in this game is massively booring repetition. More booring then most. Isk/h is allways an issue.

Doing group PVE is supposed to be a income increasing thing ... not something you have to "pay" by getting less isk. If you honestly argue that the logic of paying for group activity is correct ... then your 0.0 empire should be earning peanuts ... afterall you need thousands of people for that effort thus it must be so much more fun and your supposed to be willing to take a hit in income for that.

evidence??

btw, if you carebears keep claiming doing incursion to "fund" your pvp, link kb or stfu

Err...are you confusing him with me?

Go check CCP's official server graph. Too lazy to link it.