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[I-RED] Ishuk-Raata Certified News: Shifting Trends Within Syndicate

Author
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#41 - 2012-06-08 11:47:24 UTC
When everyone you ever get into a debate with starts throwing insults at you, it is wise to consider that perhaps there is some personal quality of yourself that is causing people to do that.
Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#42 - 2012-06-08 12:03:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcolm Khross
Diana Kim wrote:


The Ishukone Megacorporation is a part of the Caldari State, if you didn't know. And the State is in fact at war with Gallente Federation, if you didn't know. By attacking any Caldari militia members, you are attacking those, who are bringing order and restoring ownership of Ishukone to Intaki. In fact, you are attacking Ishukone interests as well. Enjoy fighting for the Federation.


Emphasis mine. There are piratical elements in the Caldari militia and any true servant of the State would eradicate these elements without hesitation. However, I believe the point being made here is that the Intaki are operating in Placid (their home system) as an independent sovereignty which is not actively engaged in the war against the State. The desire to operate independently is something we Caldari should relate to intimately.

There is more to war and service than shooting at everything, often times the greatest benefit to conflict is the discovery of new allies and trusted neighbors.


Diana Kim wrote:
Mammal Tafren, I didn't say anything about Intaki people.


Yes, I believe that was the problem. You refused to acknowledge the Intaki people, the people living and operating within Placid.

Diana Kim wrote:


  • It wasn't very wise to speak about ignorance and disrespect from your side.
  • Besides being "governed" officially, Intaki is located deep into warzone, and right now this region is swarmed by federation troops.
  • Would you deny gallente military presence in Intaki?
  • Who shut door to gallente warships in system? Intakis? Ishukone? I-REDs?
  • Before speaking about ignorance next time, I strongly recommend you consulting your star map: Intaki is not hard to find. Try to visit this system, try to find military installations with your on-board ship scanner, peek in, and you won't find anything, but blasted gallentes.

Let me address your points in the appropriate order and manner.

To the first: Whether or not there is wisdom in my approach is not for you to decide. Your perception of my ignorance is about to be tested and I speak with respect to those worthy of it. This does not include you.

To the second: The Placid Region is the home system of the Intaki people, located deep into a warzone that was established by CONCORD for the Empyrean War, not by any choosing of the Intaki people. It is "swarmed" by Federation capsuleers seeking to oppose what they consider Caldari occupation because the Intaki do not have a registered independent milita with CONCORD and cannot therefore claim their own system.

To the third: Certainly not. Where there is a difference between you and I is that I recognize the difference between the Intaki and the Gallente Militia. There are Caldari militia in the Placid region too, does this make it a Caldari territory? No. Nor does the presence of the Gallente militia make it a Gallente territory - Placid belongs to the Intaki, a people that have a right to their independence and sovereignty if they so desire it.

To the fourth: The Intaki did. Perhaps you may wish to research the history of the Intaki and their struggle for representation, security and eventually independence. It's a struggle that the Caldari should be able to relate to. I would also point out to you that Ishukone Corporation purchased the development and security rights to the Placid Region when it came under Caldari occupancy in YC 111. Ishukone and I-RED continue to honor their commitment to the Placid Region and to the Intaki people.

To the fifth: I have been to the Intaki system. The presence of Gallente militia and Caldari militia does not make the system any less Intaki than it has ever been. Where the distinction between us occurs is that you fail to distinguish between the Intaki and the Gallente Federation. The Empyrean War only allows for the Caldari and the Gallente to war over the system but the system is home to and belongs to the Intaki.

Diana Kim wrote:
Your behavior is disgusting, Khross-haan, every time you are trying to defend gallentes, using insults as arguments. I am looking forward when provists will break into your house to teach you a lesson or two.


Interesting. I did not insult you one time in my original statements. I directly referenced you. Furthermore, I am not defending the Gallente in any way, I'm making a pointed distinction between the official nation known as the Gallente Federation and the race of people known as the Intaki.

~Malcolm Khross

Ilsenae Alexandros
Perkone
Caldari State
#43 - 2012-06-08 12:08:12 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Who shut the door to gallente warships in the system? Intakis?


Well actually yes. The reason the Intaki region of Placid and homeworld system is even a warzone at all (and thus has such a low security status) is in part because the Intaki when joining the Federation stipulated a minimal naval presence in their system. When the Gallente-Caldari war broke out, many Intaki were sympathetic to the Caldari cause. Given the Federation's ultra-nationalist politics at the time, many Intaki suffered for those views, some even arrested and exiled for it. Of those exiles, some went to join the Caldari Navy. Others formed what we now call Mordu's Legion.

In fact the majority of the Federation voting bloc that are advocating for peaceful resolutions are Intaki citizens. Even in the wake of the attack on Luminaire this voting bloc was against the Federation's desires for unrestrained retaliation and still hoping for a peaceful resolution.

To know the face of God is to know madness.

Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#44 - 2012-06-08 12:15:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcolm Khross
A few minor corrections, kirjuun.

The more militant Intaki exiles joined the Caldari Navy while the less-militant ones or those more closely associated with an Intaki secession movement formed the independent Intaki Syndicate.

Mordu's Legion was formed later consisting of the same Intaki that were in the Caldari Navy.

~Malcolm Khross

Ilsenae Alexandros
Perkone
Caldari State
#45 - 2012-06-08 12:17:07 UTC
My mistake, Sejikiin. I apologize for the error.

To know the face of God is to know madness.

Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#46 - 2012-06-08 12:22:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcolm Khross
((Unintentional post, please ignore))

~Malcolm Khross

Mammal Tafren
Intaki Liberation Front
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
#47 - 2012-06-08 12:32:01 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Mammal Tafren, I didn't say anything about Intaki people.


Indeed, Diana, and as Malcolm said, therein lies the problem.
Bataav
Intaki Liberation Front
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
#48 - 2012-06-08 12:35:28 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
... restoring ownership of Ishukone to Intaki...

Following the disappointing arguements that have marred the initial announcement by I-RED I was reluctant to respond myself, despite some of the commentary referring to the Intaki system and ILF.

However Kim's mistaken comments have prompted me to attempt to clarify one important detail.

Ishukone was granted development rights of the Intaki system over the other Caldari Megacorporations.

It is to be expected that the Federation would call this a campaign of establishing dominion, of ownership, of control. It's a message that would call the loyal masses to the cause. That this misinformation is now accepted as truth by those on both sides of the current conflict serves as evidence of the effectiveness of the Federation's propaganda machine.

Upon the FDU's recapture of the system the facts are reflected by Ishukone being quick to approach the negotiating table and agree with the Intaki Assembly what we can only assume is a mutually beneficial contract applicable within Intaki's borders and there is currently no evidence to suggest they have breached the terms of that contract that I'm aware of.

Perhaps the persistance of the idea that Ishukone wishes for "ownership" of the Intaki system and it's people is related to the Assembly's decision to award two high profile contracts to two State aligned groups at the cost of their Federal predecessors.

With regards to Ishukone's activities in Intaki and those of it's subsidiaries I can, as a representative to the IPI Council confirm on the record that the IPI alliance acknowledges the efforts of I-RED in Intaki and Viriette, which have undoubtably had a positive impact on the region. The IPI understands that despite a change in focus for I-RED, Intaki has not been abandoned in the pursuit of greener pastures and I-RED infrastructure remains in place and active, contributing as we speak to the ongoing stability of the Viriette constellation.

So I would like to congratulate I-RED on their recent successes as originally announced and am reassured that our cousins in the Intaki Syndicate will benefit in the same way the people of Intaki, Placid have done.
John Revenent
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#49 - 2012-06-08 13:26:35 UTC  |  Edited by: John Revenent
You will find that anything that does not involve violence is beyond Ms. Kim's comprehension. She will always believe that Ishukone, and the other eight will operate just as the Protectorate does.

Quote:
The Ishukone Megacorporation is a part of the Caldari State, if you didn't know. And the State is in fact at war with Gallente Federation, if you didn't know. By attacking any Caldari militia members, you are attacking those, who are bringing order and restoring ownership of Ishukone to Intaki. In fact, you are attacking Ishukone interests as well. Enjoy fighting for the Federation.


But because I do love to repeat myself, with the hope that something might click. Ishukone has development rights in the Intaki system if it is under the State's occupancy, or under the Federation's control, as per an agreement with the Intaki government.

By your logic, the Protectorate forces attacking Ishukone assets, effectively murdering citizens of the Caldari State in the Intaki solar system you are.. In fact, oh wait.. attacking the Caldari State.

Baka.

Ishukone Loyalist - Private Contractor

"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned."

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#50 - 2012-06-08 18:28:25 UTC
Malcolm Khross wrote:

Emphasis mine. There are piratical elements in the Caldari militia and any true servant of the State would eradicate these elements without hesitation.

What have piratical elements do about it? Of course, there are always misfits and profiteers, luckily they are mostly in minmatar militia now (because of profits), and became fair game. Anyway, this is internal militia problem, and you, civilians, are not the ones who are allowed into it.

Malcolm Khross wrote:

However, I believe the point being made here is that the Intaki are operating in Placid (their home system) as an independent sovereignty which is not actively engaged in the war against the State. The desire to operate independently is something we Caldari should relate to intimately.

This independent sovereignty is situated deep in warzone between our State and Gallente Federation. They are neither friends, nor enemies, but just victims of the war.

Malcolm Khross wrote:

There is more to war and service than shooting at everything, often times the greatest benefit to conflict is the discovery of new allies and trusted neighbors.

I have to admit, that even you can say sometimes something reasonable. Well done.


Malcolm Khross wrote:

Yes, I believe that was the problem. You refused to acknowledge the Intaki people, the people living and operating within Placid.

Why do you think I refuse acknowledge the Intaki people? I am well aware about their existence and that they die because of this war from both sides. But I am a soldier, not a nurse. I cannot allow myself to mourn every innocent soul that gets into my line of fire, or line of fire of my comrades. This is a war, and peoples die. Innocent workers, who happen to work for the wrong side, by-passers during wrong time in the wrong place, ship crews, passengers, station operators and many others. You know, you can't count everyone. You are either professional, or spineless whiner. And in the later case, you'd better give up your flying license and start growing some friendly cuddly furriers planetside.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#51 - 2012-06-08 19:09:31 UTC
Malcolm Khross wrote:

To the second: The Placid Region is the home system of the Intaki people, located deep into a warzone that was established by CONCORD for the Empyrean War, not by any choosing of the Intaki people. It is "swarmed" by Federation capsuleers seeking to oppose what they consider Caldari occupation because the Intaki do not have a registered independent milita with CONCORD and cannot therefore claim their own system.

I'd like to remind you, that it is swarmed not only by capsuleers, but by Federal military forces too. I think you didn't follow my advice to check it for yourself, yet you are continue speaking... can this possibly lead to somewhere?

Malcolm Khross wrote:

To the third: Certainly not. Where there is a difference between you and I is that I recognize the difference between the Intaki and the Gallente Militia. There are Caldari militia in the Placid region too, does this make it a Caldari territory? No. Nor does the presence of the Gallente militia make it a Gallente territory - Placid belongs to the Intaki, a people that have a right to their independence and sovereignty if they so desire it.

You are talking about militia, while I was talking about Federal Navy. Of course, capsuleers are the force to be reckoned with, but there is too few of us to control whole system... even whole planet. There comes the Navy. Most of the fights for control of the system, are fights between capsuleers and navy.

Malcolm Khross wrote:

To the fourth: The Intaki did. Perhaps you may wish to research the history of the Intaki and their struggle for representation, security and eventually independence. It's a struggle that the Caldari should be able to relate to. I would also point out to you that Ishukone Corporation purchased the development and security rights to the Placid Region when it came under Caldari occupancy in YC 111. Ishukone and I-RED continue to honor their commitment to the Placid Region and to the Intaki people.

So you link 2-year old event from news, but don't believe to Wing Commander of State Protectorate. Very well, your choice whom to believe or not. But still, you'd better go there and check the situation yourself. There are plenty of gallente navy vessels in the systems ((to shoot at - sorry :D)), and by denying it you won't get positive credits.

Malcolm Khross wrote:

To the fifth: I have been to the Intaki system. The presence of Gallente militia and Caldari militia does not make the system any less Intaki than it has ever been. Where the distinction between us occurs is that you fail to distinguish between the Intaki and the Gallente Federation. The Empyrean War only allows for the Caldari and the Gallente to war over the system but the system is home to and belongs to the Intaki.

I tell you again. Militia presence is insignificant, militia are not residents and do not control the system in the extent above occupation level. Go there. (Again?) Run a scanner, find a military installation, peek in. Do you think you will find Intaki navy or just independent Intaki ships? WRONG. Occupation of Intaki solar system is now backed up by federation navy ships. I don't know, if they are hostile or friendly to Intakis themselves, but they are definitely hostile to the State.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#52 - 2012-06-08 19:40:51 UTC
And once again you have proven that you are completely incapable of understanding anything beyond your black-and-white merciless campaign against everyone you view as an enemy of the State, regardless of the truth behind your assessment (or lack thereof).

The presence of the Federal Navy has absolutely no bearing on the situation, the Empyrean War is fought between capsuleers and the navies of the respective governments will occupy whatever territory is captured.

Instead of attempting to understand the situation, you are commanding Ishukone to dishonor their commitment and betray not only themselves but the State and the Intaki as well.

You are a blind fool, I will waste no more words on you.

~Malcolm Khross

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#53 - 2012-06-08 19:47:03 UTC
About being 'blind fool', where did you see me "commanding Ishukone" to do anything?
Bah.
This is a waste of time, indeed.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#54 - 2012-06-08 19:51:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyn Farel
Diana Kim wrote:
Anyway, this is internal militia problem, and you, civilians, are not the ones who are allowed into it.


Once they start to threaten outsiders, civilians as you call them, this stos being an internal militia problem. The people in question stepped on a mandate belonging to CONCORD and laws regulating what happens outside the militias.

Militias should learn to stay quietly at their place, for that they are only tolerated as long as they lead their political vendettas in the frame that was designed and granted to them by the Emergency Act.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#55 - 2012-06-08 20:15:39 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Anyway, this is internal militia problem, and you, civilians, are not the ones who are allowed into it.


Once they start to threaten outsiders, civilians as you call them, this stos being an internal militia problem. The people in question stepped on a mandate belonging to CONCORD and laws regulating what happens outside the militias.

Militias should learn to stay quietly at their place, for that they are only tolerated as long as they lead their political vendettas in the frame that was designed and granted to them by the Emergency Act.

Well, there are two problems: a militia attacking neutral party, and neutral party attacks militia.
And a single solution: whatever side you attack, you attack it as a whole.
As far as I have understood from the start (and what I implied), it was neutral party attacking militia.
But let's start from the easiest.
If a militia member attacks a neutral party, he is a fair game. Unless he is in a fleet of like-minded capsuleers, no one will come to help him. Tolerate it? No way. Go and kill. Everyone has the right to protect himself. I guess that's what you was talking about.

What was I referring to, is a random crazy face (or fleet) in local, attacking militia members, for example, accusing them as pirates. They will be most probably reported as pirates instead in intel channels and will be dealt with accordingly by combined militia force. And the response can be much greater than an even whole alliance can chew. You can ask I-REDs how it happens, since it is their topic.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#56 - 2012-06-08 20:37:24 UTC
Interesting.

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ![/u]

Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#57 - 2012-06-08 21:00:33 UTC
Malcolm Khross wrote:

The Federation would know a great deal about playing at friends while possessing ulterior motives...



So would the Caldari who, in total secrecy while members of the Federation, built up a system of stargates and military outposts with an eye towards expanding their power and political influence. Mr. Pot, please meet Mr. Kettle.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.

Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#58 - 2012-06-08 21:21:54 UTC
Anabella Rella wrote:
Malcolm Khross wrote:

The Federation would know a great deal about playing at friends while possessing ulterior motives...


So would the Caldari who, in total secrecy while members of the Federation, built up a system of stargates and military outposts with an eye towards expanding their power and political influence. Mr. Pot, please meet Mr. Kettle.


It is true that stargates and colonies were built in secret and it is true that such a thing was dishonest and dishonorable.

However, I would urge you not to assume you knew the reasoning behind it because "expanding power" wasn't the reason and "expanding political influence" had already been tried. It was, in fact, one of the reasons for the early tension between the Senate and the Caldari people, the Caldari people's lack of representation and thus inability to act against laws and regulations that harmed the Caldari.

~Malcolm Khross

James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#59 - 2012-06-08 22:16:58 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
Furthermore, I feel it is quite amusing for you to accuse us of abandoning our contracts when you are quite literally only privy to one contract. The one between I-RED and FCO.


I would like to make one correction.

The “contract” mentioned by Ms. Oniseki is between RECLT and I-RED, not FCO and I-RED. As RECLT is a member corporation within FCO, we informed our alliance partners prior to initiating the contract, but we did not seek their approval to do so. As you might suspect our decision was not a popular one.

I thought it puzzling at the time why I-RED made so much of such a small contract, considering its limited scope. Now their real motivation becomes more clear.

I won’t discuss here the concerns we have had while doing business with I-RED. That would after all be unprofessional. ~pauses for effect~

Seeing as I-RED’s primary representative has determined to use the existence of our contract as a weapon against FCO and its Chancellor I have no alternative but to terminate it. You may consider this notification of the same.

Very Respectfully Yours:
James Syagrius
Administrator
Reclamation Technologies.

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#60 - 2012-06-08 22:28:10 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
Anyway, this is internal militia problem, and you, civilians, are not the ones who are allowed into it.


Once they start to threaten outsiders, civilians as you call them, this stos being an internal militia problem. The people in question stepped on a mandate belonging to CONCORD and laws regulating what happens outside the militias.

Militias should learn to stay quietly at their place, for that they are only tolerated as long as they lead their political vendettas in the frame that was designed and granted to them by the Emergency Act.

Well, there are two problems: a militia attacking neutral party, and neutral party attacks militia.
And a single solution: whatever side you attack, you attack it as a whole.
As far as I have understood from the start (and what I implied), it was neutral party attacking militia.
But let's start from the easiest.
If a militia member attacks a neutral party, he is a fair game. Unless he is in a fleet of like-minded capsuleers, no one will come to help him. Tolerate it? No way. Go and kill. Everyone has the right to protect himself. I guess that's what you was talking about.

What was I referring to, is a random crazy face (or fleet) in local, attacking militia members, for example, accusing them as pirates. They will be most probably reported as pirates instead in intel channels and will be dealt with accordingly by combined militia force. And the response can be much greater than an even whole alliance can chew. You can ask I-REDs how it happens, since it is their topic.


So it is mainly your word against theirs on who shot first ? I see.