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[I-RED] Ishuk-Raata Certified News: Shifting Trends Within Syndicate

Author
Bastian Valoron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2012-06-07 16:20:51 UTC
First of all, I would like to commend the superiors of Mademoiselle Oniseki for finding her as I-RED's mouthpiece. Emotional appeal is strong with her. She is a perfect cover for the practical side of your business decisions.

However, we all know how things work in New Eden. When cui bono, facts and evidence point in different direction than the words, it is only natural that people become curious. My questions could have been made by any investor and your answers are probably being red by them with great curiosity. I hope they will discover all the findings satisfactory.

The background of my questioning was based on research and on the data I-RED's representatives themselves have released. Let me apologize on behalf of everyone who missed this fact.

When it comes to war time dealings, it is very convenient to say afterwards that there was no poison in the glass. It would be underestimating you to think that your gestures during the war were an error of judgment. Please, give me a break.

When FCO was fighting for its right to exist, we had to make a choice between our principles and material values. We chose our principles.

The path of a defender of liberty, decency, prosperity and happiness in the midst of the darkness of New Eden is not an easy path to walk. It is a lonely road. Perhaps we will burn, but we will never give up. Whatever will happen, we will remain faithful to the vision that some day freedom will prevail.
Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#22 - 2012-06-07 17:15:21 UTC
Chancellor Valoran,

I commend you for choosing to stand by your principles even when it meant sacrifice in doing so, there is honor on doing so.

I would recommend that you consider carefully the reputation I-RED has with those they have operated with and through and consider that a voice from within this circle, backed by factual evidence, will serve your allegations more appropriately than a continued charade here.

Consider that you came to I-RED's new declaration with malicious intent and sparked a debate while I-RED came to your inaugural announcement with well-wishes. Now consider how this paints your venom toward them in the public eye. You stated that your information source was I-RED's own news but you failed to provide any evidence of it, merely your own words.

If you are the man of principle and honor that you are masquerading as here, then I urge you to provide concrete, irrefutable proof of your allegations. If you cannot do so, then the reputation I-RED possesses with those they have worked with and through, as well as the consistency of their operations and its visibility to the public eye will overpower your allegations and a man of honor would do well to publicly apologize in sincerity for such a besmirching.

The burden of proof, after all, is on the accuser. I would have expected a politician, as you appear to be, to understand the importance of appearance and the value of information when backed with evidence.

~Malcolm Khross

Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#23 - 2012-06-07 17:42:32 UTC
Therin lies the essential downside of politicians, Malcolm. They may acknowledge the rules their particular society has laid down in terms of due process, but in the end they realize that what is said is, ultimately, more powerful than what is proven, in regards to influencing public opinion.

A lie, repeated often and loudly enough, etcetera.
Bastian Valoron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2012-06-07 20:15:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Bastian Valoron
Malcolm Khross wrote:
You stated that your information source was I-RED's own news but you failed to provide any evidence of it, merely your own words.

If you are the man of principle and honor that you are masquerading as here, then I urge you to provide concrete, irrefutable proof of your allegations. If you cannot do so, then the reputation I-RED possesses with those they have worked with and through, as well as the consistency of their operations and its visibility to the public eye will overpower your allegations and a man of honor would do well to publicly apologize in sincerity for such a besmirching.

The burden of proof, after all, is on the accuser. I would have expected a politician, as you appear to be, to understand the importance of appearance and the value of information when backed with evidence.

Dear M Khross, you are making unfounded assumptions about my motivations. Anyone looking for investment opportunities could have asked the same questions. Let me re-cap the discussion and let the facts speak for themselves.

Here, the executor of Ishukone-Raata Enforcement Directive states that the Ishukone-Raata High Command will continue its efforts to create a stable economy in the Intaki system along with the Placid Region as a whole.
John Revenent wrote:

The Ishukone-Raata High Command will continue its efforts to create a stable economy in the Intaki system along with the Placid Region as a whole, even with the loss of Caldari Ocupancy in the constelation it will not affect our sales or our efforts to create a stable work enviroment for the Intaki people.
This was done shortly after the Intaki Assembly had made a shipping deal with Ishukone megacorporation.

Then, Korsavius, a news releaser of I-RED, states that it has been a little over two months since I-RED has shifted its focus from Intaki and the Placid region to the pirate infested region of Syndicate.
Korsavius wrote:

I-RED states that it has been a little over two months since I-RED has shifted its focus from Intaki and the Placid region to the pirate infested region of Syndicate.
I hope everyone can see that these two statements are not mutually compatible. A natural question I kindly posed was whether the intention is to maintain a presence in two locations.

Then, the personal secretary of the Executor, Katrina Oniseki, answers the question,
Katrina Oniseki wrote:

The Intaki economy is more stable now than it ever was before, with active market competition and a steady supply and market of capsuleer goods in both Intaki and Agoze. Furthermore, I-RED has not completely left Intaki to its own devices. ... We have abandoned nothing in Intaki. ... The only I-RED activity which has all but ceased in the Placid region are our regular security patrols.
So, the claim is that the operations in Intaki continue as before. Research on the status of the local markets does not support this claim,
Bastian Valoron wrote:

I did some research on the current status of the markets in the relevant trade hubs and I could not find any orders up by anyone employed by I-RED. This of course does not prove that the claims made are lies but it does cast doubt on their veracity.
Bastian Valoron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2012-06-07 20:16:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Bastian Valoron
Katrina Oniseki confirms this suspicion, tries to silence the questions with a reference to a past bribing attempt and makes a threat of violence:
Katrina Oniseki wrote:

When your organization was but a fledgling alliance, already besieged by forces that sought your destruction; I-RED extended an offer to not only advise you on proper combat tactics but also fight for you at no cost or contract. ... I ask you to take a moment and reconsider your insulting and hostile stance against those who perhaps considered you friends.
Taisa Develon steps in and reveals something interesting about I-RED's corporate decision making process.
Simca Develon wrote:

I would first like to state that Katrina and I did pressure Taisho Revenent to help you.
Finally, she repeats the threat of violence,
Simca Develon wrote:

We neither need nor want fair weather friends, but we'll see which type you turn out to be soon enough.

Thus, M Khross, I would like to ask you whether you consider these business practices honorable? Does Wiyrkomi threaten its investors with violence? Is it honorable if a megacorporation uses its investors money to advance some ominous "friendship" agenda instead of providing a good return for the investment?

And no, I'm not claiming to have or have not invested in this business venture.
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#26 - 2012-06-07 20:32:25 UTC
Frankly, Mr. Valoron, I think these posts are proving nothing other than that you suffer from paranoid schizophrenia or that you actually have simply taken to heart what I accused you of.
Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#27 - 2012-06-07 20:45:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcolm Khross
Do you actually read what you write or just type it out and hope it sounds coherent, Valoron?

"Past bribing attempt?" They offered to defend you at zero cost, sounds like solid bribery to me.

You consider it odd that a CEO might actually listen to his employees from time to time? I thought "freedom of democracy" was built upon that very concept. I would have thought you'd applause this form of communal discussion instead of just ironfisted tyrannical rule.

"Threat of violence" because they don't want to waste their efforts, resources and time on someone who is going to disappear the moment things get dicey? Did you actually read anything you quoted or did you just read what you wanted to read?

The statements made by Taisho Revenent and his subordinate Korsavius are not exclusive. One says that they've shifted their focus while the other says they will continue to help the Placid Region. Just because they no longer focus on the Placid does not mean they've abandoned it.

Have you stopped to consider that I-RED did and does more than sell things in Placid space? I highly doubt they'd have had quite the cooperation from the ILF and others in the area if they were only there for profit.

In short, you've proven nothing except that you got this, entirely wrong:

Bastian Valoron wrote:
Dear M Khross, you are making unfounded assumptions about my motivations.

~Malcolm Khross

Valdezi
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#28 - 2012-06-07 21:13:09 UTC
Malcolm Khross wrote:

Consider that you came to I-RED's new declaration with malicious intent and sparked a debate while I-RED came to your inaugural announcement with well-wishes.


And here is the salient point. Chancellor Valoron came picking a fight and then cried foul when a fight came his way. This kind of moral cowardice reflects very poorly on the FCO, an organisation which presented a better front under its former leader.
Bastian Valoron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2012-06-07 21:24:12 UTC
Yes, in bribery something is indeed offered for zero cost, in order to have leverage over the beneficiary.

Anyhow, as I have shown, all my claims have been confirmed by the people involved. You can stop making excuses now, M Khross.
Valdezi wrote:

And here is the salient point. Chancellor Valoron came picking a fight and then cried foul when a fight came his way.
Could you elaborate? I have just asked a couple of simple questions which should have been easy to answer.
Jev North
Doomheim
#30 - 2012-06-07 22:37:26 UTC
Bastian Valoron wrote:
Yes, in bribery something is indeed offered for zero cost, in order to have leverage over the beneficiary.

Well, usually a bribe is offered in order to incentivize someone to do something for you. There's a certain leverage aspect to it, yes.. if the bribe is illicit, and the beneficiary accepts it. Has accepting that sort of bribe become such a habit you skipped right over those little details, or are you just trying to blur the lines between a sense of obligation after receiving a gift, and criminal behaviour?

Yes, rhetorical question.

Even though our love is cruel; even though our stars are crossed.

Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#31 - 2012-06-07 22:44:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Katrina Oniseki
After some time in thought, I have decided I erred in my emotionally charged words (as you point out). I took personal offense to this sudden change in FCO's treatment of I-RED, and reacted accordingly. I will attempt in calmer words to address your concerns.

Bastian Valoron wrote:

I hope everyone can see that these two statements are not mutually compatible. A natural question I kindly posed was whether the intention is to maintain a presence in two locations.


Khross-haan had it correct. They are mutually compatible. I-RED continues operations within Placid, as I have already stated. Our focus is indeed no longer Placid, as little more than a standby defense force (which can be mobilized on short notice, mind you) has been left within Intaki to defend our operations, assets, and allies in the region should it be necessary.

It's also worth noting that according to our metrics, we found the Viriette constellation to be stable and self sufficient enough to no longer requite I-RED's direct and daily involvement with the more visible methods of Capsuleer support. Again, as I've said, we have not abandoned or ceased operation in those areas.

Here is a short list of some of the larger employment opportunities that continue to provide significant economic activity in the Viriette constellation:


  • Planetary colonies 30-70% staffed by local populations, depending on the facilities. This does not include fully automated facilities.
  • Customs Office and Starbase employment opportunities for local populations, pending qualification and security clearance. Starbase crew positions come with full and/or temporary Ishukone employment and benefits, excluding Caldari State citizenship.
  • Starship Crew and Station Office staffing opportunities for local populations, including full and/or temporary Ishukone employment and benefits, excluding Caldari State citizenship.


These employment opportunities are just one area that cannot be measured by simply 'checking the local capsuleer markets' as you have done. While public opinion of I-RED employment would of course be mixed, considering we are Capsuleers, the economic benefits to local populations cannot be underestimated.

Quote:

I did some research on the current status of the markets in the relevant trade hubs and I could not find any orders up by anyone employed by I-RED. This of course does not prove that the claims made are lies but it does cast doubt on their veracity.


I hope you understand that Capsuleer market activity by I-RED is not what I had claimed. I stated that the markets are now more active and stable than they were before our arrival, thanks in no small part to the assistance of ILF and FDU Capsuleers. These markets no longer require our direct stimulation and intervention. This is one of the reasons we no longer focus on Intaki.

Bastian Valoron wrote:
Katrina Oniseki confirms this suspicion, tries to silence the questions with a reference to a past bribing attempt and makes a threat of violence:
...
Taisa Develon steps in and reveals something interesting about I-RED's corporate decision making process.
...
Finally, she repeats the threat of violence,
...
Thus, M Khross, I would like to ask you whether you consider these business practices honorable? Does Wiyrkomi threaten its investors with violence? Is it honorable if a megacorporation uses its investors money to advance some ominous "friendship" agenda instead of providing a good return for the investment?

And no, I'm not claiming to have or have not invested in this business venture.


There was no bribery involved with the offer for support, but of course you will not believe that. You would likely rather assume we wanted something special and precious from you, and would tighten an invisible noose around your neck down the road. Frankly, that is paranoid speculation. Yes, it's possible, and yes there is a precedent for it. Was that the original motive for the offer? No. The original motive for the offer was a pair of eager combat pilots (Taisa Develon and myself) looking to help 'a friend' as they saw it. Are we begrudging you for declining the offer? No. In fact, you have earned the Taisho's respect for not taking the offer of support.

What we have a problem with is your public attack of those who, for once in New Eden, actually offered support to you with no strings attached.

Furthermore, Taisa Develon was not threatening you. She is not subtle with threats, so trust that you and everybody listening will know it if she does. There would be no question of it. I feel it would be better for her to clarify what she meant, but I can certainly say that wasn't a threat.

As your other questions were not directed at me specifically, I will not presume to answer them.

Katrina Oniseki

Simca Develon
Doomheim
#32 - 2012-06-07 22:57:12 UTC
Taisa Oniseki has pretty much said more than what I was going to say, and has also done a much better job of it than I would have.

I would like to clarify one thing, though. As Katrina said I was not threatening you or the FCO, and if I was believe me you would have known it. The statement about fairweather friends was quite simple. We look for partners, business and otherwise, that will not just be around when things are good, but also when the proverbial **** hits the proverbial fan. What I meant there, which you apparently didn't get, is that you are showing yourself to be one of those types of friends.

Je suis le commencement de votre fin.

Le diable prend soin de son proper.

John Revenent
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#33 - 2012-06-07 23:04:44 UTC
Abandoning Intaki would be abandoning Ishukone's interests.

We still maintain a large quantity, if not the majority of infrastructure in the area. As stated by Oniseki, we still maintain operational star-bases, and custom offices.

Ishukone Loyalist - Private Contractor

"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned."

Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#34 - 2012-06-07 23:09:46 UTC
My congratulations to I-RED on their successes in Intaki, and best of wishes in your new venture. Your continued defense of the regions' prosperity speaks volumes, despite the adversarial winds you encounter. May all of your efforts be rewarded with great profits.

- S
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2012-06-08 05:15:21 UTC
Well this went smoothly, didn't it. Roll

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#36 - 2012-06-08 06:12:07 UTC
John Revenent wrote:
Abandoning Intaki would be abandoning Ishukone's interests.

I would like to remind you, Taisho, that Intaki is still in the hands of the enemy. Well, maybe not yours enemy, but definitely enemy of the Ishukone. Have you done like anything to secure this asset of Ishukone from enemy?

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Korsavius
Revenent Defence Corperation
#37 - 2012-06-08 06:50:03 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
John Revenent wrote:
Abandoning Intaki would be abandoning Ishukone's interests.

I would like to remind you, Taisho, that Intaki is still in the hands of the enemy. Well, maybe not yours enemy, but definitely enemy of the Ishukone. Have you done like anything to secure this asset of Ishukone from enemy?


I suppose it is probably a waste of my time to try and respond to this, but I shall make an attempt regardless.

If the "enemy" you are referring to is the Gallente Federation, then you clearly do not know the foreign policies of the Ishukone corporation. Ishukone has a neutral stance with the Federation, more or less, and, more importantly, the Federation has not made any advances on the Ishukone assets located within the Intaki solar system and adjacent systems. Therefore, to label the Federation as an "enemy" of Ishukone would be incorrect.

The only enemy in the Viriette constellation that I can think of would be pirate capsuleer organizations and bigoted militia pilots such as yourself who will shoot anyone and anything that passes by, thereby threatening the existence of free trade in the locale.

I hope I addressed your question properly and clearly, Miss Kim. Enjoy fighting for the Empire.

Cold Wind's Blade || Follow the I-RED Newsfeed & visit the I-RED GalNet site!

Mammal Tafren
Intaki Liberation Front
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
#38 - 2012-06-08 07:31:51 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
I would like to remind you, Taisho, that Intaki is still in the hands of the enemy. Well, maybe not yours enemy, but definitely enemy of the Ishukone. Have you done like anything to secure this asset of Ishukone from enemy?


I highly doubt that the Intaki people are overly fond of their home being described as a Caldari asset, nor of being called the enemy for living there.
Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#39 - 2012-06-08 08:43:08 UTC
The Placid region is "governed" by the Federation officially but it is the Intaki that live there and the Intaki that are actually sovereign there, demonstrated quite clearly when they proverbially shut the door in the face of the Federation not too long ago.

You speak out of ignorance and disrespect to a people that have never been enemies of the Caldari, Kim. It is this type of overzealous black-and-white mindset that will create enmity and cause unnecessary conflict between groups that could otherwise coexist and benefit mutually.

~Malcolm Khross

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#40 - 2012-06-08 11:02:59 UTC
Korsavius wrote:

I suppose it is probably a waste of my time to try and respond to this, but I shall make an attempt regardless.

If the "enemy" you are referring to is the Gallente Federation, then you clearly do not know the foreign policies of the Ishukone corporation. Ishukone has a neutral stance with the Federation, more or less, and, more importantly, the Federation has not made any advances on the Ishukone assets located within the Intaki solar system and adjacent systems. Therefore, to label the Federation as an "enemy" of Ishukone would be incorrect.

The only enemy in the Viriette constellation that I can think of would be pirate capsuleer organizations and bigoted militia pilots such as yourself who will shoot anyone and anything that passes by, thereby threatening the existence of free trade in the locale.

I hope I addressed your question properly and clearly, Miss Kim. Enjoy fighting for the Empire.


The Ishukone Megacorporation is a part of the Caldari State, if you didn't know. And the State is in fact at war with Gallente Federation, if you didn't know. By attacking any Caldari militia members, you are attacking those, who are bringing order and restoring ownership of Ishukone to Intaki. In fact, you are attacking Ishukone interests as well. Enjoy fighting for the Federation.


Mammal Tafren, I didn't say anything about Intaki people.

Malcolm Khross wrote:
The Placid region is "governed" by the Federation officially but it is the Intaki that live there and the Intaki that are actually sovereign there, demonstrated quite clearly when they proverbially shut the door in the face of the Federation not too long ago.

You speak out of ignorance and disrespect to a people that have never been enemies of the Caldari, Kim. It is this type of overzealous black-and-white mindset that will create enmity and cause unnecessary conflict between groups that could otherwise coexist and benefit mutually.


It wasn't very wise to speak about ignorance and disrespect from your side. Besides being "governed" officially, Intaki is located deep into warzone, and right now this region is swarmed by federation troops. Would you deny gallente military presence in Intaki? Who shut door to gallente warships in system? Intakis? Ishukone? I-REDs? Before speaking about ignorance next time, I strongly recommend you consulting your star map: Intaki is not hard to find. Try to visit this system, try to find military installations with your on-board ship scanner, peek in, and you won't find anything, but blasted gallentes.

Your behavior is disgusting, Khross-haan, every time you are trying to defend gallentes, using insults as arguments. I am looking forward when provists will break into your house to teach you a lesson or two.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.