EVE New Citizens Q&A

I too consider myself new to EVE but the way I see it, space is the wild frontier and I know that when I undock my ship I take risks. Would I suicide a ship for fun? No. But I don't begrudge other players the right to do so. When you play a game that is advertised as non-consensual PvP you get what you bought. The beauty of a sandbox environment is everyone can do as they please.

I think the resistance you feel is caused by people who don't want to PvP and the community feels they are trying to change the game they love. It starts with a whine and devolves from there.....

Peace

1.) EVE and no PvP at all isn't possible. Play EVE means you are open to get into PvP (unless you trade and never undock, but then again the market is player driven so even that is PvP).

2.) People don't hate carebears, people hate carebears who come to the forums and whine when they lost their fancy (and expensive) fitted ship. And want CCP to make EVE into a theme-park MMO where they are safe from everything.

3.) Personally, what is the use of grinding missions or what so ever for ISK when you don't use it (Missions if done right only means you are 'loosing' ammo, which can be bought and still make money). Best way to see it IMO is that missions (or what ever) is a way to get the money to go PvP.

4.) General Discussion is the worst place on the forums to get a good overall view on the player database, GD is filled with trolls and other scum.

If you want a totally safe game, free of possible PvP, play any other game then EVE. In EVE as soon as you hit that undock button you agree to the fact you can be pulled into PvP at all times.

As for the killing miners, there are a lot of bots screwing up the game. And some of the genuine players that mine are just fun to shoot down as they only think in ISK/hour ratio and whine when somebody shoots their Hulk down (Keep in mind, I'm one of the miners in game, but I mix mining and PvP - aka Boring and exciting activity).

As for 1st reply, I would suicide gank my ship. But only if the target is right, generally it isn't so I just let everybody play their game.

You may be new but this same thread has been posted a million times in general forum so if it gets locked please dont take offense.

Most pvpers do both to be honest. They have a carebear way of making money only to keep themselves afloat pvp wise. Theres a lot of griefing towards miners but the clever miner takes this as a boon to his existence as, as long as he doesn't get caught he makes more money of off rising mineral prices.

If your not missioning in a totally bling boat no one will suicide gank you because it wont be worth it for tears alone.

So if people say they want to force pvp on you for only pve'ing...**** em. Sticks and stones. As long as no one in game specifically pisses in your cheerios you got no worries.

Most pvp rage toward true 100% risk adverse care bears is actually born out of frustration and confusion, not "I want to kill you because I can to make you sad," desires.

The confusion and frustration two fold: One, for eves economy to work there must always be harvesting, crafting, destruction, so pvp is always around. And two PVP is just so fun! PVPers dont understand why carebears get attached to there spaceships, lets face it, its a tool and end to a means not an avatar, and why ship loss to carebears becomes so personal.

If you decide one day to pvp in a bunch of cheap frigates and you loose every one of them who cares! At least you learned something right?

PVP is every where. You can feel it when you buy a module, place a market order, build a rig. Even now in the system your in. It is the fabric of eve online that makes it different from every other mmo and there by makes it more real.

I personally may not be a griefer but in order for this to be eve I must defend to the death his right to do it.

Because the haters are losers

Carebears are not neccesarily the people who mine or PvE. That's never how I understood it... Those guys who run anoms in nullsec are carebears as well according to your definition of carebearing. Problem is, mining (whether that's roids, moon goo, or PI) and PvE are ways to earn ISK in EVE, they're part of the game. Nobody hates these things as we all do them at some point if we need ISK.

No, carebears are aggressively passive pilots who do these things.
Let me explain you how it was taught to me when I started playing EVE, what carebears were:

Carebears are those who are *scared* of PvPers and PvP in general. Think it's immoral to blow some other player's ship up.
PvP is a core part of the game that's just supposed to be there, so they're wrong in that.
If someone goes out to mine and then gets blown up by some JihadSwarm ganker, and this person goes to complain and 'cry' about how it was an unfair fight and how the ganker is so mean and immoral, that's a carebear pilot. He can't stand he lost.
But for example, if this same person would instead of complaining and crying for the next 4 days after a ship loss, goes to outfit his battleship ASAP after he lost the ship, gathers everyone who's online of his corporation, and chases his ganker across 20 systems and then finally blows that mutherfocker up, that's not a carebear, that's someone who knows how to play EVE and knows how things are supposed to work here.

Carebears think that they're somehow supposed to be safe in high-sec and that they are supposed to be untouchable while mining/PvEing.
This is stupid and typical carebear behaviour.
You're not safe, ever. highsec sees less non-consensual PvP than in other systems of the galaxy, thanks to concord, but still Concord is only a reaction to a crime, it does not prevent a crime from happening. Just like RL: if someone shoots you dead, you're still dead, even if the police captures your attacker and puts him in jail. Luckily in EVE, you can also haunt that bastard in the afterlife. There are just too few people who actually do it.

You just have to have the right mentality, I guess... one that too few MMOers seem to have this day.


That's the difference between a carebear and just someone who does mining/PvE to earn ISK.
Although, in this period with ForeverGeddon, it's probably better to move your miner to nullsec. Much safer there as it's less populated and you see hostiles in local before they are at your location. Or just go mining in a buffertanked battleship with Miner IIs if you want to stay in highsec.

Someone who likes PVE isn't necessarily a carebear. Carebears are extremely risk averse people who get upset when they're put at risk.

People who whine, "CCP should make the game cater to my playstyle and protect me" are being true carebears. The mission runner who gets ganked and doesn't complain isn't a carebear.

This, and the reply right above this, cover most of this perceived attitude completely. Especially reasons 1-3.

People are welcome to do what they want in EVE. For all that I only do PvE (and a range of it, at that, to try to keep it from getting stale) to fund my ships, kill time while talking to in game friends, or both. Plenty of others do this in all sorts of ways, and it's normal, as long as you keep in mind that every action in EVE involves potential loss, from undocking, ever, to bad market trades. Minimizing that loss, planning for it, and dealing with it is how you play EVE.

There's backlash against an attitude (perceived, real, or both) that there are players in EVE who feel that their assets should not be at any risk when they're undocked. That using game mechanics to kill them, regardless of how efficient or inefficient the kill, isn't OK. These players catch derision because for anyone who has accepted that losing stuff is part of EVE, this attitude is contrary to the basic nature of the game.

Forums are only occupied by a tiny percentage of the eve players.

And, like anything, forget anything you know / learned from other games. As 99.9% of the times they don't work in EVE.

In EVE there is no real consensual PvP. In EVE there is no Fair fights, neutral reps or off grid boosters are common sight. And even then, your target can just have friends warp in on his call.

there's no hate, carebears are easier targets

First of all, people don't hate carebears.... The community despises peopel that think they deserve to be safe without effort. Here are two major reasons why EvE really frowns on people asking for a safe zone in which to play:

Argument 1.) The Economy:

EvE stands for Everyone vs Everyone, and at it's core you are competing aginst every other player. The act of gathering resources effects the supply and deman of resources, and thereby alters the value of those resources. Many "carebears" don't see their actions as competing with others and so they think they should be safe without effort. However, even if the individual footprint is small, the general footprint of casual harvesting (mining, missioning, PI, etc) and casual crafters (Production, Invention, etc) have significant impacts on the EvE market. Essentially, they are engaged in economic warfare, even if they are playing casually. Unfortunately, many people consider themselves non-competitive players within EvE, are completely oblivious to their game impacts, and continuously demand safe zones.

While most players refer to ship combat as PvP, it is really just one form of competition. You might ask why ship combat needs to be allowed in "safe(r) zones" like highsec, since everyone there is already competing on an economic level with the rest of EvE? A small group of people typically cannot out-harvest or out-produce the production of another entity, and need a tool to do this. That's why highsec wars exist, so one entity can disrupt the economic activities of an opposoing group no matter where in EvE they reside. The only people immune to wardecs are NPC corp members, which suffer limitations on what they can do in game (no POS, high taxes, etc). One of the reason suicide ganking is allowed is to disrupt NPC corp member's economic acitivites too.

In the end, in order to maintain the balance of economic competition that underwrites all of EvE, you would have to ban all forms of harvesting, all forms of crafting, as well as ship combat PvP. However, if you do that, there's no content left for people to do in a "safe zone"!!!

Realize, Hulkageddon, Jitageddon, and the related activity have a HUGE impact on how the game's economic competition unfolds.

Argument 2.) Choices and Consequences:

Much of EvE's competition revolves around the Rochambeau (Rock, Paper, Scissors) metagame. EvE players are expected to make a choice between dps, vs yield, vs tank, vs cargo, vs speed vs whatever function you want. By design, Optimizing one option leaves you lacking, and potentially vulnerable in another area. The truth is, most of the time people have all the tools available to mitigate most risks in game, but people CHOOSE to live risky in favor of better yield or more dps or a large haul or whatever. Creating a risk-free zone undermines the consequences of choosing poorly, thereby removing much of the player's responsibility for their own choices. Where do you draw the line? Should you get your ship and equipment back when you lose your ship to NPC rats because you fit the wrong hardeners? Should you get your money back when you bought an item off contracts, only to learn you grotesquely overpaid for that item? CCP, and the general community, was created with the belief that the responsibility for protecting your own stuff is yours, and you have to deal with the consequences of bad choices.

While it's unappealing to those scammed, most of the major publicity EvE gets is from the Amazing scams pulled off in game.