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[Proposal] Account-Wide Training

Author
Kyrialle
Midnight Rose Candy Store
#1 - 2012-06-05 13:38:15 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Tyrozan
Why is it that only one character per account can train at any given time. It rather defeats the purpose of having an alt character if you have to put you main character on developmental hold to train your alt.

I'm not sure if this has been brought up before, and maybe there is a reason behind the policy, but I currently fail to understand it.

Let all characters on an account train simultaneously!!
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#2 - 2012-06-05 14:05:36 UTC
People pay for seperate accounts to train new alts. This will never be introduced because CCP would lose a massive massive amount of income. Please think your ideas through, or know more about the game, before suggesting to change it in the Assembly Hall.

If your generally that experienced but still think your suggestion may be worth while, post it in the Features and Suggestions area of the forums first to see people's reactions.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

Kyrialle
Midnight Rose Candy Store
#3 - 2012-06-05 14:26:54 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
People pay for seperate accounts to train new alts. This will never be introduced because CCP would lose a massive massive amount of income. Please think your ideas through, or know more about the game, before suggesting to change it in the Assembly Hall.

If your generally that experienced but still think your suggestion may be worth while, post it in the Features and Suggestions area of the forums first to see people's reactions.




People having multiple accounts would not be greatly affected by this, as you may only have one character online, per account, at a time.

Many (maybe most) players have multiple accounts, with characters logged on simultaneously for any number of reasons.

For example, Mission Ship / Command Ship team running Missions; Hulk / Orca Mining Teams. The are many reasons to have multiple accounts online at any given time.

Allowing 'alt characters' on any given account to be training in 'offline mode' would not necessarily create a huge drop in the number of 'alt accounts' that many players require.



ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#4 - 2012-06-05 18:39:55 UTC
Show me a game where you are allowed to train multiple characters on the same account at the same time.
Kyrialle
Midnight Rose Candy Store
#5 - 2012-06-05 19:53:26 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Show me a game where you are allowed to train multiple characters on the same account at the same time.


If you want to compare and contrast Eve Online with other games, then why don't you show me another game that allows you to train your characters when you aren't even logged in?
Lykouleon
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#6 - 2012-06-05 20:16:20 UTC
The search thingy at the top of the forum is really helpful, you know. You can search for subject matter such as "training" and "account" and see just how many times this has been brought up and repeatedly shot down by the EVE community, all in one place!

All in one place!

Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword

Kyrialle
Midnight Rose Candy Store
#7 - 2012-06-05 23:35:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Kyrialle
Lykouleon wrote:
The search thingy at the top of the forum is really helpful, you know. You can search for subject matter such as "training" and "account" and see just how many times this has been brought up and repeatedly shot down by the EVE community, all in one place!

All in one place!


Well, if the subject keeps popping up, that should indicate that there is popular support for it, and it is worthy of further discussion.

Simply pointing to the fact that it has been discussed, and summarily dismissed in the past, doesn't necessarily mean that it is a dead-end conversation. I appreciate that fact that you (and some others) think it is a bad idea. Duly noted, however there may be quite a few that think it is a good idea.

If everybody in Eve Online had the, "That's the way it is, and you have to deal with it" attitude; BoB would still be in control of the Galactic Southwest.
Rastino
Horde Vanguard.
Pandemic Horde
#8 - 2012-06-06 00:17:54 UTC
Well considering the subject has been shot to pieces several times before on this forum by the community and not CCP might give you a hint that it is in fact not the best idea ever.

One might actually say that it is a minority of players that would like this change and the majority sees it as a bad idea.

The fact is that its never going to happen simply because CCP would lose a crap load of subscriptions. To be fair wouldn’t we all rather have CCP getting the money they need to further expand and evolve EVE the game we all love.
Do remember that when CCP had a 9% decries in subscriptions the had to fire 20% of the staff… That is one in five for those of you that didn’t listen during math class.

So in short (that’s to late nowSmile) stop posting suggestions for game changes you haven’t thought trough or just go biomass your char now.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#9 - 2012-06-06 00:39:02 UTC
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#10 - 2012-06-06 00:42:54 UTC
My take on the issue is this: the most scarce resource in the game is time. Learning to manage your time is the most important skill you as a player can learn. Learn that skill. Also learn that you will never train every skill in the game: you need to specialise. Industry or Military is one basic dividing point: do you train to have 200-odd order limit on the market, or do you train to fly battleships? Do you train to fly a Widow, or fly all T1,2 & 3 cruisers? Do you become a one-pilot industrial behemoth able to churn out ships at a phenomenal rate, or fly a stealth bomber with Cyno 5 so you can take part in blowing up battleships at a phenomenal rate?

There are already options available to you to help you "win" the SP "race". Explore those options: character transfers and multiple accounts.

Kyrialle
Midnight Rose Candy Store
#11 - 2012-06-06 00:58:47 UTC
Rastino wrote:
Well considering the subject has been shot to pieces several times before on this forum by the community and not CCP might give you a hint that it is in fact not the best idea ever.


And yet, despite the endless ridicule from our community's aristocracy, it still keeps popping up.

Quote:


One might actually say that it is a minority of players that would like this change and the majority sees it as a bad idea.



This is possible, yet at the same time, opponents of this idea continually point to the fact that it keeps resurfacing, on a fairly regular basis. That, in and of itself, might point to the fact that it is indeed not as unpopular as you may want to believe it is.

Quote:


The fact is that its never going to happen simply because CCP would lose a crap load of subscriptions.


That is your opinion, and unless you happen to be sitting in front of a crystal ball, I'll prefer to believe that my idea has merit, and may possibly be implemented.

Quote:


To be fair wouldn’t we all rather have CCP getting the money they need to further expand and evolve EVE the game we all love.
Do remember that when CCP had a 9% decries in subscriptions the had to fire 20% of the staff… That is one in five for those of you that didn’t listen during math class.



I have three accounts. One each for the three characters I play. Allowing me to additionally develop characters in the two 'alt slots' on those accounts is not going to make me want to stop paying for the three accounts I have. Therefore, my idea will not lead to a massive decrease in subscriptions.

Quote:


So in short (that’s to late nowSmile) stop posting suggestions for game changes you haven’t thought trough or just go biomass your char now.


I have thought it through, and I've successfully, and logically, deflected every argument to my idea in this thread. Will you go biomass your characters if my change is implemented? I think most likely not.
Kyrialle
Midnight Rose Candy Store
#12 - 2012-06-06 01:00:08 UTC
Kyrialle
Midnight Rose Candy Store
#13 - 2012-06-06 01:02:48 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
My take on the issue is this: the most scarce resource in the game is time. Learning to manage your time is the most important skill you as a player can learn. Learn that skill. Also learn that you will never train every skill in the game: you need to specialise. Industry or Military is one basic dividing point: do you train to have 200-odd order limit on the market, or do you train to fly battleships? Do you train to fly a Widow, or fly all T1,2 & 3 cruisers? Do you become a one-pilot industrial behemoth able to churn out ships at a phenomenal rate, or fly a stealth bomber with Cyno 5 so you can take part in blowing up battleships at a phenomenal rate?

There are already options available to you to help you "win" the SP "race". Explore those options: character transfers and multiple accounts.




This is my point exactly. Why can't I use the two spare slots on any one of my accounts to train up a trader character, or an industrialist character, or a Logi pilot? I can, ... but only if I stop training on the main character.

Maybe a better argument would be "Eliminate the two alt slots on an account, and make players pay a subscription fee for every character they play."

In effect, thats what we are doing to begin with.
Rastino
Horde Vanguard.
Pandemic Horde
#14 - 2012-06-06 01:28:47 UTC
I don’t have a crystal ball, but thing it trough. If there still isn’t a bell ringing in that empty skull of yours I do suggest you take class or two in marketing, business and product development.

Well this subject might reappear frequently but so did the subject about missiles and delayed damage vs. turrets and instant damage.
The fact that a subject is aired often doesn’t make is a great subject, often it’s the other way around.
Great proposals tend to get CSM attention the first time Blink
Lykouleon
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#15 - 2012-06-06 01:48:09 UTC
The thing you seem to be missing: the idea pops up from one individual, gets maybe...10 people supporting it...and then gets laughed at and shot down by everyone else.

CCP will never implement it simply because it flies in the face of the core principles of the game. The moment CCP deviates from those principles is the day the game dies (see NeX store for more details!)

Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#16 - 2012-06-06 01:50:22 UTC

Let's put your suggestion in a general framework:

You want to train multiple characters per account. Why?

-- becuase your impatient, and cant be asked to stop training on your main so you can train a second character.

Reasons why this might not be supported

-- It doesn't really serve a real purpose. Since you can cross train everything it is ALWAYs quicker and more effecient to train into a new thing on your main becuase they will have support skills already. (I suppose it could allow you to play as two separate people, but then you should be using two separate accounts anyway!!!

-- Character Farming - When you could train up multiple characters simultaneously, people would just make 2 alts and train them to do stuff then just sell em on the bazarr or IRL. This would essentially devalue all characters, and really screw over current character traders (yes, there are people that earn their isk that way!). RMT'ers and previous players abused the old multi-character-training system!

-- Account Sharing - Since you could train mulitply chars on the same account, 2 or 3 people could effectivly play the same account if they all did so at different times.


Finally, you REALLY NEED TO RESEARCH YOUR IDEAS BEFORE POSTING THEM. Quit stinking up the Assembly Hall with recycled craptastic ideas, unless you can give it a new spin, and really thoroughly understand the topic. Next time, I suggest you find the answers to the following questions before polluting the forums:

-- Has this been suggested before??? (3s of research will tell you many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many times before)

-- If so, why has this been shot down? (<- OMG, we expect you to post as an informed person, please do so!).

-- Is your idea thoroughly vetted? (If its a new idea, get some player feed back... in FEATURES AND IDEAS, not assembly hall).



Finally, for your information, they used to allow mulitple characters to train at the same time, way back in early EvE. There are multiply reasons they got rid of it. You should probably be knowledgeable of why they got rid of it, and how those arguments are no longer valid, and/or how re-introducing it at this time won't cause the problems it did before.
Kyrialle
Midnight Rose Candy Store
#17 - 2012-06-06 01:54:30 UTC
Personal insults are generally a sure sign that your arguments have been deflected and parried, and you have no other logical basis to stand your viewpoints upon, so, 'If I scream louder than the other guy, I'll win".

Lol.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#18 - 2012-06-06 03:34:26 UTC
Kyrialle wrote:
Personal insults are generally a sure sign that your arguments have been deflected and parried, and you have no other logical basis to stand your viewpoints upon, so, 'If I scream louder than the other guy, I'll win".

Lol.


I didn't insult you (unless being called impatient is an insult). I insulted your idea. I called it recycled, craptastic, and stinky. It is undeniably recycled. Perhaps the latter two adjectives are too much opinion, but you wouldn't be complaining if I said fantastic instead of craptastic. You're only complaining because my opinion of the idea doesn't agree with yours.

If we can move past that, I also posted a very thorough outline of why it's been shot down before, and explained what is expected of you when bring your ideas to the CSM in the future (which is what the assembly hall is for!).
Rastino
Horde Vanguard.
Pandemic Horde
#19 - 2012-06-06 04:33:06 UTC
I think that insult part was directed at me and yes it was an insult but mostly just because the OP insults the rest of us by posting stupid proposals.

I might be a bit inpatient with ignorant people that simply refuse to listen to well founded arguments that doesn’t support their point of view, or I simply spend time in TEST at some point in my EVE carrier… Pick one.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#20 - 2012-06-06 06:31:21 UTC
Kyrialle wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
There are already options available to you to help you "win" the SP "race". Explore those options: character transfers and multiple accounts.


This is my point exactly. …

Maybe a better argument would be "Eliminate the two alt slots on an account, and make players pay a subscription fee for every character they play."


My point was that we already have alternatives. We currently have three slots so that you have the option, for example, to train two market alts while focussing on combat skills for the main character. After a while you will resent the cost of replacing clones for your high-SP characters. You might decide that flying a black ops battleship on your main is enough: more SP will hurt you financially. So you spend time training the other slots in order to sell those SP that you are never going to use.

You might train a Thrasher-flying alt for RvB or Faction Warfare because you know that such a ship is viable. That alt doesn't need warp drive operation 5 or Retail 5 or Amarr Encryption Methods. So you stop training while the clone replacement isn't going to break your bank.

These are choices which have consequences. If you remove the consequences, the choices are not important any more and you break the basic model of EVE.
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