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Missions & Complexes

 
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is it me, or are good ships actually rubbish??
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Spineker
#21 - 2012-06-06 02:41:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Spineker
DPS is subjective. You can do all that DPS on paper and it means nothing really. A baseline but not that important. MACH needs to close with enemy and all the other downsides of Guns. Tengu damage is constant and always on the target, no misses no scratches just hits. Constant damage is better than variable damage to me. I can finish almost any Caldari mission faster and cheaper than any Mach with t2 missiles.

Mach against Guristas is poor choice in my opinion.

Also the Tengu whoever said something about sensors has 35 compared to 26 of the mach and 15 with the Mara's. I hardly ever get jammed in a Tengu and if I do I just reload. Generally like aggo management you need to know what ships can jam etc. Kill them first most cruisers that jam are one volley kills.

Also you only lose the first flight time of missiles over guns. Something people never understood after the first volley hits the target it is the same as any other weapon. Sure it is cool to insta some ships with guns but after that first insta it is not different than flight time beause reloading is always the point. Missiles hit with the same 3.x seconds (considering skills) as guns after the first 3 second flight time.
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-06-06 06:52:00 UTC
Spineker, not quite. Missiles have their counters (defenders, speed, size) that need to be taken into account. In addition, due to travel time, you can overshoot. For instance, let's say you are firing at a battleship about 100 km away. It needs 5 volleys to kill. However, before the fifth volley hits, the racks already cycle and the sixth volley will fire, essentially being wasted. This means you need to anticipate the damage and interrupt the firing sequence before the target actually dies. That's not a weakness with weapons that apply damage instantly - if it's still alive, shoot some more.

On top of this, pvp-wise, a missile boat is usually in an inferior position, because it always lags a bit behind in applied damage and because it'll have to reload much more often than a gunship. Luckily, Caldari ships are well tanked, with quite a decent buffer due to shield tanking, but it's still something to consider.

Note: I'm not saying missile suck, far from it - after all, I'm a missile freak myself. However it is an additional thing to consider when going for maximum mission running speed. One lost volley isn't much, but on every ship, that can rack up quite a bit of extra mission time.

One other important thing is travel distance. Some missions have gates tens of kilometers from the warp-in point. A slow boat such as CNR (even with AB) will take its sweet time getting to the next gate, whereas, fast ships like a Tengu or Machariel will be there in like a third of that time. Slower killing or not, for those particular missions, Mach/Tengu is definitely a better choice, even if EFT/fitting screen shows like 200 dps less.

In the end, it all comes down to personal choices - minmaxing isn't the be-all, end-all and a good player can finish a mission in a worse boat much faster than a bad player in the best boat.
Spineker
#23 - 2012-06-06 16:49:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Spineker
I count volleys what missile boat captain doesn't? Doesn't take much to memorize volley needed per ship type becomes second nature after a while mess up sometimes but who cares. Only time I over shoot is when I am lazy or rare type of ship that I don't remember but the majority I know exactly how many to lunch. Defenders are not that big of a deal to me, such as Vengence where you have to kill the last boss who has regen and defenders out the yingyang I kill him in less than 10 to 11 volleys from any distance. SO he lives about 35seconds I would be interested to know how well the Mach takes this guy down I am sure it is pretty fast. Many low SP people have a hard time with him breaking his tank think you need 500dps may be wrong.


Missile are better for PVE than guns in my opinion. Doesn't matter if you say they suck or not I have been flying missile boats for almost a decade and they don't suck at all and are superior in PVE. They rock actrually but all weapon systems have pros/cons and anyone who sticks to only one is missing out.
Kalli Brixzat
#24 - 2012-06-06 17:22:46 UTC
Spineker wrote:
I count volleys what missile boat captain doesn't? Doesn't take much to memorize volley needed per ship type becomes second nature after a while mess up sometimes but who cares. Only time I over shoot is when I am lazy or rare type of ship that I don't remember but the majority I know exactly how many to lunch. Defenders are not that big of a deal to me, such as Vengence where you have to kill the last boss who has regen and defenders out the yingyang I kill him in less than 10 to 11 volleys from any distance. SO he lives about 35seconds I would be interested to know how well the Mach takes this guy down I am sure it is pretty fast. Many low SP people have a hard time with him breaking his tank think you need 500dps may be wrong.


Missile are better for PVE than guns in my opinion. Doesn't matter if you say they suck or not I have been flying missile boats for almost a decade and they don't suck at all and are superior in PVE. They rock actrually but all weapon systems have pros/cons and anyone who sticks to only one is missing out.


I agree with this, minus the underlined part. No, missiles are not better than guns. Each offers advantages and disadvantages.

Overall, the right kind of guns are far more lethal than missiles and will give you faster clear times. The real benefit of the missile is the ability to damage-type-select on the fly.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#25 - 2012-06-06 20:56:59 UTC
Spineker wrote:
all the other downsides of Guns.


imo the upsides of guns outweigh the downsides, mostly because the only downside is I can't sit still all the time like I would in a drake/raven wah wah! The biggest downside of the mach I'd say would be the 77.5km lock range. And in a missile boat you can count volleys but a defender or extra rep cycle and you need an extra but due to the cycle time you are already on another ship so you usually end up wasting a few volleys correcting that.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Spineker
#26 - 2012-06-06 21:09:25 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Spineker wrote:
all the other downsides of Guns.


imo the upsides of guns outweigh the downsides, mostly because the only downside is I can't sit still all the time like I would in a drake/raven wah wah! The biggest downside of the mach I'd say would be the 77.5km lock range. And in a missile boat you can count volleys but a defender or extra rep cycle and you need an extra but due to the cycle time you are already on another ship so you usually end up wasting a few volleys correcting that.



Yeah true there are far more upsides I am not even arguing against guns I just find it insane that some people think Missiles are somehow "bad". Granted I would rather have Heavy Missile Damage 5% per level than just Kenetic Damage etc. So there are all kinds of crazy things to consider.
Katja Faith
Doomheim
#27 - 2012-06-06 22:24:58 UTC
Faction and Navy ships. Nuff said.
Kasutra
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#28 - 2012-06-06 23:06:42 UTC
Spineker wrote:
Yeah true there are far more upsides I am not even arguing against guns I just find it insane that some people think Missiles are somehow "bad". Granted I would rather have Heavy Missile Damage 5% per level than just Kenetic Damage etc. So there are all kinds of crazy things to consider.

You really encounter many people saying heavy missiles are bad?
Songbird
#29 - 2012-06-07 01:14:21 UTC
my mach runs with a mwd an L shield booster 4 gyros and a 3 TE's . I've not seen a faster killer.
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-06-07 11:07:04 UTC
If you can fly Mach and Vargur then you can prob fly kronos which may be better in kin/ therm missions.
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