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Tengugeddon: Competition Open, Rules Finalized - WIN A PLEX
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Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#221 - 2012-06-07 10:54:12 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Trinkets friend wrote:
Well, Mocram just exposed himself as an iggernant hisec carebear. One does not simply go to sov space and flip sov in one day. The RF timers on Ihubs, SBU's and stations dictate that it takes a minimum of about 7 days to flip one system.

Unless, of course, one was refering to one's own experience with the game, as perforce one has spent all of it within the padded cell that is EVE Uni, within hisec, learning everything there is to know about sov grinding from fellow inmates?

I remember when E-Uni took a "class" to go teach some nubs about how sov worked. Only, none of them actually had a clue how it worked and they got their own TCU flipped on them by a guy in a cheetah.

A bit off-topic but I'll go ahead.

As you say. It was a snicker moment - as for a class. Naw, that was a "lets go pick a fight with big guys and see what happens. Fly with a clean clone!". (Russian group held SOV there and they tend to be a scrappy sort. Fun trivia: That outpost there? The uni helped build it "back in the day" when the uni was out of nullsec -- long before my time.)

OUtside of that, I have messed with it a bit on SiSi before - when we do some classes on SOV, caps and such and parts are done on SiSi at times. "Safe" while you run folks around and CCP has some fully upgraded systems so we can show what the different upgrade levels look like/benefits, etc. while explaining them.

"In theory" - it can be done in about a day - flipping it neutral vs owned. In practice? Hell no. Part of the impossible outside of theory.

SBU goes up, reinforce the IHUB or what not - come back tomorrow to blow it up the rest of the way except they are dual reinforced so you can't do it really in 1 day - it takes 2 unless...

Unless you have an idiot or spy/traitor as a Director type in the owning group who specifies a shorter time window to come out of reinforced then, "in theory" - you can pop it in about 1 day. Lots of theoretical to get it done - system by system across a region. Wouldn't you agree?

PS: That SBU flip was a real /facepalm moment. They don't say that during anchoring the friggn thing can be flipped by a wiley pilot in a frigate, but it can... We popped the bad one, set another up... got bored waiting 3 hrs -- left. The details are on our KB. Pretty boring stuff sitting around like that.

The russians did show up later and blew it to hell and gone pretty fast - a few capitals and super carriers, with support, but it was a bit late so there weren't any uni really around at those hours. Gotta love time-zone issues. It would have been fun. I don't usually get in on those "let's go get blown up" big-ship runs. They're only done every few months is all and that would have been my first time getting to do one.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#222 - 2012-06-07 11:02:21 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Just out of interest has anyone tried suicide-neuting mission runners?

I'm thinking about testing this on the test server, but am I right in thinking that you could probably kill a tengu purely by webbing, neuting and target painting it during it's mission?



You can always try, it might work on badly ftted and low skills pilot.


brb
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#223 - 2012-06-07 11:13:36 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Just out of interest has anyone tried suicide-neuting mission runners?

I'm thinking about testing this on the test server, but am I right in thinking that you could probably kill a tengu purely by webbing, neuting and target painting it during it's mission?

You can always try, it might work on badly ftted and low skills pilot.

Yeah, I must admit I've tested this now and it didn't work. But this was tested on my WH Tengu, which has perfect skills, 30k EHP and the capacitor reservoir engineering subsytem.

I might try it again later on a cheaper T2/partial deadspace fit and see what happens.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#224 - 2012-06-07 14:01:06 UTC
So far this is looking to be the best investment I've ever made.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Zanza Mechonis
What is tax
#225 - 2012-06-07 14:10:41 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
So far this is looking to be the best investment I've ever made.


Maybe you should become the new trololo guy... ;P

"On the internet you can be anything you want... It's strange that many people choose to be stupid."
Eyezpiddydafooh
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#226 - 2012-06-07 14:28:27 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
So far this is looking to be the best investment I've ever made.


No, your best investment was the kneepads for when your smooching Goon ass, it has kept you from years of damage to bone structure.
Niena Nuamzzar
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#227 - 2012-06-07 16:27:55 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Niena Nuamzzar wrote:

Neuting capabilities are not the on... first reason why i've mentioned Bhaalgorn. I'm sure you know there's more to it Roll

Neuting capabilities are what? And why would you suicide gank in a pirate faction BS, that's just silly.

You have a good understanding of indirect questions, which is nice. I've got your answer here though, good luck webbing Tengu with Tornado and Cane Blink
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#228 - 2012-06-07 16:39:19 UTC
Niena Nuamzzar wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Niena Nuamzzar wrote:

Neuting capabilities are not the on... first reason why i've mentioned Bhaalgorn. I'm sure you know there's more to it Roll

Neuting capabilities are what? And why would you suicide gank in a pirate faction BS, that's just silly.

You have a good understanding of indirect questions, which is nice. I've got your answer here though, good luck webbing Tengu with Tornado and Cane Blink

Erm, standard cane fit has a web? And tank doesn't matter, as shown by Tippia's blog on concord response times tank is irrelevant to how fast you explode. Plenty of space for webs/TPs.

Unless you mean range, in which case who cares? Web range is around the same as medium neut range, and a cane/tornado both go helluva lot faster than a PvE tengu.

I still honestly don't understand what point you are trying to make. I get the impression that you believe webbing a tengu would be difficult? Trust me, it isn't, I kill them in low sec all the time.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#229 - 2012-06-07 17:12:21 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
What is it with pubbies and awful contests with even worse prizes?


Every good post I visit today has already bin taken =(

ezh, +1
Niena Nuamzzar
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#230 - 2012-06-07 17:48:45 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:

I get the impression that you believe webbing a tengu would be difficult? Trust me, it isn't, I kill them in low sec all the time.

You and what army?
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#231 - 2012-06-07 18:21:34 UTC
Niena Nuamzzar wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:

I get the impression that you believe webbing a tengu would be difficult? Trust me, it isn't, I kill them in low sec all the time.

You and what army?

My personal army of alts and awoxxers.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Gerrards
Cosmological Ventures
#232 - 2012-06-07 23:26:47 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Dors Venabily wrote:
Why are you considering it tears when he is calling you a chickenshit ??

Tears are proof that someone had an emotional response. Calling someone chickenshit on an internet forum is pretty solid proof that someone is mad.

Hence, tears.


You sound like a **** but I feel emotionally empty writing it.
Is that tears ?
SabotNoob
Doomheim
#233 - 2012-06-07 23:32:09 UTC
So where are we with this? Has it started? Any updates on the number of high sec mission runners ganked/baited yet?
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#234 - 2012-06-07 23:43:58 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Just out of interest has anyone tried suicide-neuting mission runners?

I'm thinking about testing this on the test server, but am I right in thinking that you could probably kill a tengu purely by webbing, neuting and target painting it during it's mission?

You can always try, it might work on badly ftted and low skills pilot.

Yeah, I must admit I've tested this now and it didn't work. But this was tested on my WH Tengu, which has perfect skills, 30k EHP and the capacitor reservoir engineering subsytem.

I might try it again later on a cheaper T2/partial deadspace fit and see what happens.


I don't know if your WH has some negative effects on your ship, shields or resists but a normal setup should give you about 40K global ehp and a much larger buffer if specific dmg type

Actually to make it work you can't do it other way than immobilise the ship (tengu) and immediately apply about 45k Alpha, but in high sec this means either is a guy afk/noob skills or concord exploit

brb
EVE Roy Mustang
Doomheim
#235 - 2012-06-08 00:36:22 UTC
Slow P Oke wrote:
EVE NEWS: DEGREN SAYS "Yes, you can totally gank mission ships." CAREBEARS COME OUT OF THE WOODWORK TO TRY TO SAY IT IS IMPOSSIBLE


Ive been telling him to put his money where his mouth is actually.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#236 - 2012-06-08 02:08:54 UTC
Eyezpiddydafooh wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
So far this is looking to be the best investment I've ever made.


No, your best investment was the kneepads for when your smooching Goon ass, it has kept you from years of damage to bone structure.


Aaaw shucks sweetie.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
strikethree
Purple Passion Procurements
#237 - 2012-06-08 04:41:06 UTC
Greyscale Dash wrote:
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
Isn't that a lot of expense for the chance to win one plex? Sure, you have the chance of some drops, but you're still looking at a lot of upfront cost, unlike ganking a hulk or mackinaw.


And people gank hulks for profitRoll


A semi-tanked hulk will have about 11k EHP. A well tanked tengu will have at least double that. A well tanked faction battleship might have 60k or more EHP.

Which ship would you go after if a scan revealed a pure T2 fitting?

Note that a single tempest with 1400s and gyros can easily do 11k alfa even without T2 guns or T2 ammo. The question then becomes, "What can I gank with the least amount of cost to me since the likelihood of external reward is so small?"

I think the hulk becomes the overwhelmingly obvious choice if ganking is required. :)
strikethree
Purple Passion Procurements
#238 - 2012-06-08 04:57:05 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Niena Nuamzzar wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:

You can fit neuts on anything, it's a PvE T3, you can cap it out in a few cycles even with medium neuts.

Neuting capabilities are not the on... first reason why i've mentioned Bhaalgorn. I'm sure you know there's more to it Roll

Neuting capabilities are what? And why would you suicide gank in a pirate faction BS, that's just silly.

My point is that even my rather shiny wh tengu only has ~2,700 capacitor capacity. And that's with the cap reservoir subsystem and a capacitor battery, since it runs at ~50% cap stable you could easily cap it out with medium neuts. A regular tengu would be capped out even faster.

Makes me think two gank canes with neuts would actually be better for killing t3s than tornados. Might be best with one cane and a tornado, or two canes and a tornado. I suppose it depends on the NPC DPS in the mission.

But anyway, my observation was merely that you could probably gank a T3 more effectively with neuts than alpha or pure DPS. I'll have to test it on sisi later with my alts.


I saw your later response about this idea not working. Here is why...

First things first: neuting is a passive attack. It can be fairly useful but does no damage itself. When time is critical, as it obviously is when a CONCORD response is expected, the very first thing that needs to be considered is alfa.

This is not to say that neuting is useless. Far from it. Check my deaths out (yes, this really is my main character). Look for a suicide gank performed upon me by The Executioners. It was fast, very professional, and my tengu was dead before I was even certain there was a threat. They used a neut domi and 7 tempests. Please take note of the tempests. They were for alfa. The domi was not even needed since the tempests were dealing enough damage to go beyond my EHP.

I do not fly faction fits any more but that has made the game more boring. Actually, in a few days, I will not be flying anything any more at all. Enjoy the ganking.

Cheers.
Herr Hammer Draken
#239 - 2012-06-08 07:00:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Herr Hammer Draken
SmilingVagrant wrote:
My tengu is in VFK at the moment. I encourage anyone to come at me.


Somebody did not read the rules. Nobody is going to come afer you and it has nothing to do with being in Goonsville.
You will have to go to high sec if you want to be a target. Not very likely so quit the bravado. I think you are too chicken to go to high sec!

Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet"
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#240 - 2012-06-08 07:35:07 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
I don't know if your WH has some negative effects on your ship, shields or resists but a normal setup should give you about 40K global ehp and a much larger buffer if specific dmg type

Actually to make it work you can't do it other way than immobilise the ship (tengu) and immediately apply about 45k Alpha, but in high sec this means either is a guy afk/noob skills or concord exploit

I was testing my Tengu fit in a mission environment, so no it wasn't WH effects. And my EHP is from EFT, not from the in-game tool.

I recommend you fit up some of the popular Tengu fits into EFT, some of them have as low as 15k EHP against EMP.

strikethree wrote:
I saw your later response about this idea not working. Here is why...

First things first: neuting is a passive attack. It can be fairly useful but does no damage itself. When time is critical, as it obviously is when a CONCORD response is expected, the very first thing that needs to be considered is alfa.

This is not to say that neuting is useless. Far from it. Check my deaths out (yes, this really is my main character). Look for a suicide gank performed upon me by The Executioners. It was fast, very professional, and my tengu was dead before I was even certain there was a threat. They used a neut domi and 7 tempests. Please take note of the tempests. They were for alfa. The domi was not even needed since the tempests were dealing enough damage to go beyond my EHP.

Oh wow, I had no idea neuting didn't do any DPS. Lol.

My point originally was that in a null sec plex (or a WH site) being neuted flat would kill you in a few seconds, especially with additional DPS/webs/TPs. I merely underestimated how easy lvl4s are, and the fact that you could probably very easily turn your tank off for most of them.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]