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A Curious Question to Capsuleers

Author
Synthetic Cultist
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#21 - 2012-06-05 16:31:41 UTC
It Is Impolite To Criticise the Hostess During The Party.

Synthia 1, Empress of Kaztropol.

It is Written.

Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#22 - 2012-06-05 16:31:59 UTC
Uraniae Fehrnah wrote:

However, what does bother me is attending a function hosted by Lady Vitalia and then seeing a young girl in attendance of a function that was essentially promised to be a celebration of debatable activities. I was further bothered by the fact that the girl's father was in attendance as well, but not as a dutiful parent and chaperon. It was quite a surprise to me, given the fact that Lady Vitalia's last social function ended in large scale destruction, that anyone would let their young daughter attend at all. In fact I'm relatively certain that if my parents knew about it they would have tried to stop me from attending it myself.


This. This right here. I'd like to see the General explain that.

Katrina Oniseki

Ilsenae Alexandros
Perkone
Caldari State
#23 - 2012-06-05 16:52:57 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
Uraniae Fehrnah wrote:

However, what does bother me is attending a function hosted by Lady Vitalia and then seeing a young girl in attendance of a function that was essentially promised to be a celebration of debatable activities. I was further bothered by the fact that the girl's father was in attendance as well, but not as a dutiful parent and chaperon. It was quite a surprise to me, given the fact that Lady Vitalia's last social function ended in large scale destruction, that anyone would let their young daughter attend at all. In fact I'm relatively certain that if my parents knew about it they would have tried to stop me from attending it myself.


This. This right here. I'd like to see the General explain that.


I did not attend, so I must ask: Who is being mentioned here?

To know the face of God is to know madness.

Safai
Yaqin
#24 - 2012-06-05 16:57:01 UTC
I believe the girl in question was General Inhonores' daughter. Some sort of celebrity if I recall.
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#25 - 2012-06-05 17:21:21 UTC
Wait.

General Seriphyn Inhonores brought his daughter to this?

Wasn't Ms. Vitalia talking about having gladiators fight to the death in a bloodsport arena?
Kalaratiri
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#26 - 2012-06-05 17:57:30 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Wait.

General Seriphyn Inhonores brought his daughter to this?

Wasn't Ms. Vitalia talking about having gladiators fight to the death in a bloodsport arena?


Yes, but apparently finding volunteers was an issue.

She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire.

This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums.  - CCP Falcon

I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim

Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#27 - 2012-06-05 17:58:52 UTC
Kalaratiri wrote:


Yes, but apparently finding volunteers was an issue.


Was this known prior to the party? Because otherwise, seriously, what in the hell?
Ilsenae Alexandros
Perkone
Caldari State
#28 - 2012-06-05 18:11:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Ilsenae Alexandros
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Wait.

General Seriphyn Inhonores brought his daughter to this?

Wasn't Ms. Vitalia talking about having gladiators fight to the death in a bloodsport arena?


For parental decency I hope that this is not true.

For comedy I hope that it is.

To know the face of God is to know madness.

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#29 - 2012-06-05 18:17:02 UTC
Malcolm Khross wrote:

I will not go into a detailed history between our people as it is well known and leads to nowhere but continued bitterness, but I will state that the Federation promotes freedom and liberty while simultaneously attempting to force others to live by their same interpretation and practice of those principles.


May I ask you to elaborate ?

Malcolm Khross wrote:
Degrees of change are good, yes. Change that is undesired and requires the dissolution of individual identity is not good, and this is the sort of change that all-too-often occurs when the Federation assimilates a people into its "melting pot."

I do not mind that the Federation seeks to live by the standards it lives by, nor that it promotes the ideals it promotes. My problem stems from the practice of expecting others to do the same.


If the "change dissoluting individual identity"you talk about is truly undesired , then why are people adopting it to various degrees ? That sounds like contradicting itself to me.
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#30 - 2012-06-05 19:10:10 UTC
Ilsenae Alexandros wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Wait.

General Seriphyn Inhonores brought his daughter to this?

Wasn't Ms. Vitalia talking about having gladiators fight to the death in a bloodsport arena?


For parental decency I hope that this is not true.

For comedy I hope that it is.


The gladiator thing didn't happen, thankfully, but yes, Anette was there; I spoke with her a few times over the course of the evening. She didn't go downstairs, though, to my knowledge - I only saw her upstairs and once on the main floor. In addition, she was, arguably, on better behavior than her father, but then, what's new there?

She also had one of those intelligent perception filter masks that are popular with some parents in the Federation, so as I joked to her, if she did for some reason wander downstairs she probably would've been running into walls because she wouldn't be able to see anything. Never used one myself, so I'm not sure of how well they work - but they wouldn't sell if they didn't, so...

As far as my own presence, I was there because I was invited to perform. I'm glad that people enjoyed the performance; I spent a lot of time preparing for it and it's always good to hear that it was time well spent.

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque

Ilsenae Alexandros
Perkone
Caldari State
#31 - 2012-06-05 19:52:39 UTC
Morwen Lagann wrote:
She also had one of those intelligent perception filter masks that are popular with some parents in the Federation, so as I joked to her, if she did for some reason wander downstairs she probably would've been running into walls because she wouldn't be able to see anything. Never used one myself, so I'm not sure of how well they work - but they wouldn't sell if they didn't, so...


This is the first time I have heard of such a device, and I find it to be vaguely disturbing.

To know the face of God is to know madness.

Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
#32 - 2012-06-05 21:30:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Jandice Ymladris
I'm quite suprised that you of all people ask such question.

Every side has their way of celebrations, and some of thsoe can be very hedonistic as well. We Caldari can throw some great corporate parties, blurring the lines between the workforce and board of directors, to enhance teamwork, but tehse are held behind closed doors, as no-one but the corporation has a need to know. It's also in the partygoers best interest to keep what happened on the corporate parties inside.

The Amarr can throw celebrations so hedonistic & decadent that it pales the gallente version of parties & celebrations. But as with caldari, the press isn't invited, and for those who participated, it's a good thing to chat about amongst themselves, but not wise to let others know how excessive it got.

The tribal rituals & celebrations of the Minmatar are usually for restricted audiences as well, and we know the rumors of how some of those can be very physical. Yet they aren't seen as some hedonistic race, simply because they keep the attendance restricted.

And how come that gallente are seen as the hedonistic ones? Even tho other races can throw celebrations that pale gallente ones? Freedom & openess. If you throw a party & get a few celebrities, everyone wants to know what happened, and it'll be smeared out wide in the press, with some exagerrations if possible. You can't read gallente press for a week without some notion of exotic parties, decadent celebrations etc.
It's your press branding you as hedonistic, you are the ones cultivating that image.

Providing a new home for refugees in the Aurora Arcology

Halete
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2012-06-05 21:47:22 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:

Edit : my remark is not aimed at the immigrated people living directly in the Federation, but more to people complaining that Federal and Amarrian ideals seem somehow to "infect" their "kin".


Aren't you an Ammatar? Are you really asking me if I'm threatened by other cultures infecting my own?

Do you realize how ridiculous you look? Have you not learned anything about me at all?

I never mentioned anything about denying my fellow Matari their free will. You might be projecting a little there, hun.

"To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 13:21

Jev North
Doomheim
#34 - 2012-06-05 22:23:45 UTC
Ancestors choke, now I have a headache. I'm tempted to throw a party myself, for the pleasure of being able to leave the honorable general Inhonores off the guest list. And, maybe, to make small points about moralizing and the value of discretion.

Even though our love is cruel; even though our stars are crossed.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#35 - 2012-06-06 08:55:40 UTC
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
I've seen so much of this by this point, that this question is now asked with genuine curiousity rather than snide condescension.

Many of you are not approving of stereotypical Gallentean practices of hedonism and decadence. Fair enough, I'd eradicate militarism from Caldari culture if it meant no more war, if I could.

Yet, these same individuals attended Madame Silas Vitalia's party and made no complaint as to how it was conducted, particularly the activities of the lower level. It involved narcostics, and scantily-clad to nude male and women dancers. I've seen many jokes or prejudiced remarks about Gallentean fashion, yet I saw no issue being taken up there. Amarr and Caldari culture are better known for having widespread expectations of discretion and principle, whereas in Gallente culture, that is only reserved to certain groups (such as those expected to embody classical Federal ideals, or high-class artists). I saw none of this typical cultural behaviour from the Caldari or Amarrians present.

In short, everyone behaved exactly like stereotypical Gallenteans, while having stereotyped Gallenteans in the past. Why? It is no wonder that Gallentean culture has been able to penetrate every other empire, when people and capsuleers act so receptive to it. Many parts of it cater to base human drives, after all.


Gallenteans don't know what good manners are. If you are invited to a house as a guest, you MUST follow house's rules. If you don't accept this culture or habits, just sit tight, smile to other guests, and if you can't bear it, try counting sheeps in your mind. But your culture is so degraded, that you prefer to show protests and complaints. And thus it puzzles you why everyone, who hates gallentish culture, didn't show disrespect to owner.

Gallenteans think that only their culture has right to exists and try to enforce it, destroying others. It is according to gallentean stereotypes everyone behaved in this particular party like stereotypical gallentes, only because atmosphere in this party was close to one, that gallenteans used to. In fact, everyone just showed RESPECT to owner, like a proper guest should.

Gallenteans have troubles in understanding it, because if that party had something inacceptible to gallentish view, stereotypical gallente would outcry with whining protests and complaints.

And you reference to activities of the lower level. But do you know, what was the most disgusting? It was a gallentish child, visiting this party. Have you ever imagined, WHAT will grow out of her? But, after all, if this is a standard for gallentean...

Anyway, all cultures have right to exist, even those, that you don't accept, even if they allow slavery, even if they allow drugs, public nudity, or whatever else, that can be viewed as savagery from my or your point of view. Even your gallentish degraded "culture" has right to exist (provided it is well caged from outside civilised world).

But if you will dare to bring your gallentish narcotics or whatever filth to MY house, you will quickly find yourself laying helplessly on your back with my boot on you pretty galentish nose!
Dare? Go ahead and try!
Frog!

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#36 - 2012-06-06 11:27:45 UTC
Kim, you're doing that thing where your mouth moves and gibberish comes out again. Might want to look into that.

~Malcolm Khross

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#37 - 2012-06-06 12:20:29 UTC
Halete wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:

Edit : my remark is not aimed at the immigrated people living directly in the Federation, but more to people complaining that Federal and Amarrian ideals seem somehow to "infect" their "kin".


Aren't you an Ammatar? Are you really asking me if I'm threatened by other cultures infecting my own?

Do you realize how ridiculous you look? Have you not learned anything about me at all?

I never mentioned anything about denying my fellow Matari their free will. You might be projecting a little there, hun.


I do not consider myself especially Ammatar, but if it suits you better, then do it by all means. I do not really care. But now you mention the Ammatar, to begin with, didn't they choose to be... "infected" as you say, by another culture ?

I am not asking if you are threatened by other cultures, I was merely asking why people keep complaining that some cultures somehow "infect" their own, where the real culprits are probably their own kin that choose to convert to that so hated foreigner way of life. If people are not happy when their culture starts to disappear, to shift, to transform, to blend, or whatever else is a perfectly normal process when different cultures start to meet, then instead of choosing the usual scapegoat that is the other culture in question, they could ask themselves a few reasonable questions before hasting themselves in their views. I am also not suggesting that they should run witch hunts amongst their own people that are open to foreigner cultures a little too much to their tastes, but I am more suggesting that they should actually focus themselves on the culture they seek to protect and put some value on it to keep it alive, if really they care about it, and be explaining to people that the excesses they sometimes seem to go into are maybe not the best choice of their life. It is not by forging inter cultural wars that kind of issues will get resolved.

In any case, as far as I know, the Caldari and Minmatar cultures are well alive and definitly not threatened by extinction, so you will excuse me if I have a hard time to believe in the cultural plagues and pandemics you all speak about all the time. Cultural blending is a natural process that has always come with globalization, with its whole lot of pros and cons, and dangers that have to be minimized. Either that, or a full autarky, which has never leaded to anywhere. People always point in the direction of the Amarr Empire (for its forced cultural conversion) or the Gallente Federation (for its invasive mercantile culture), but you just have to take a look on almost every single border world in anyone of the four factions. The borderzone between the Amarr Empire and the Federation is quite interesting on the matter. People would think that the Amarr systems bordering the boundary are heavily influenced by the Federation's culture, but the reverse is also true. It is the same between different cultures everywhere as long as they are trading with each other, or accessing to the other's pieces of cultures. It is also the same on a bigger scale where people only see the gallente culture spreading everywhere in the cluster, where actually the Minmatar one for example is getting pretty popular in different regions, even if distorted, or misunderstood. Even the Sani Sabik faith has appeared in different shapes and colors in the Federation.

____________

On another note, I am not sure why I would look ridiculous, and I hope it was not just yet another ad-hominem, the kind that are hold so dear on the IGS and the Summit. Anyway, no, I have not had the occasion to learn a lot about you considering how little I have spoken to you, so my apologies if something was misunderstood somewhere.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#38 - 2012-06-06 14:00:07 UTC
Malcolm Khross
If you have to say something meaningful - say it, or keep it shut.
I don't know you and I don't think I want to, and I don't understand why all these sudden blatant insults.

Want to discuss something or maybe settle personal matters in more profound way than just words? You know how to find me.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#39 - 2012-06-06 14:25:01 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Malcolm Khross
If you have to say something meaningful - say it, or keep it shut.
I don't know you and I don't think I want to, and I don't understand why all these sudden blatant insults.

Want to discuss something or maybe settle personal matters in more profound way than just words? You know how to find me.


How typical, resort to violence.

You may not know me and I consider this a good thing, but I certainly know you. I've watched you spout venomous hatred and ignorant filth over these discussion forums time and again. I've watched you hurl one insult after another while heralding your own perceived superiority. I've watched you disintegrate otherwise intelligible conversation into ire-filled, degenerate propaganda.

I would suggest you take a piece of your own advice:

Diana Kim wrote:
If you have to say something meaningful - say it, or keep it shut.

~Malcolm Khross

Ava Starfire
Khushakor Clan
#40 - 2012-06-06 14:25:14 UTC
I attended because my significant other wished to attend.

I left after perhaps five minutes.

I could care less about people enjoying themselves. Just wasnt my kind of party, and attended by enough people I call enemy that I decided it would be for the advantage of all if I left. A good party, I suppose, at least what I saw of it... I hear it took something of a downward turn after I left.

Seri, maybe find a new hobby. Perhaps you and Lyn Farel can have a candlelit dinner and enjoy a delightful circular argument?

"There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception." -Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North"