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Are Exhumer's a dead ship line ?
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Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#121 - 2012-06-03 14:06:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Tallian Saotome
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Tallian Saotome wrote:
If they are using an orca to avoid being blown up, then by all means report them to CCP. That would be an exploit.


You can try it yourself.

Distance to Orca: 20km

Try to open corp hangar and then move items from your ship's cargo to Orca's corp hangar.

You can use carrier to test this if you don't have skills for Orca.

Ah, you mean the miners orca.

Look at the bonuses on an orca, in particular the one related to tractor beams. Ofc, once again, in order to take advantage of this mechanic, you will need to not be AFK, so, yeah.

Edit: Carriers, rorquals, and orca all get flown by me in various situations, so I have a small familiarity with corp hangars and they 3km limit to use them Roll

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#122 - 2012-06-03 14:11:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Ah, you mean the miners orca.

Look at the bonuses on an orca, in particular the one related to tractor beams. Ofc, once again, in order to take advantage of this mechanic, you will need to not be AFK, so, yeah.


Orca has 3 high power slots, tractor beam require 1 high power slot.

You use 2 mining links and 1 siege warfare link. All warfare links require 1 high power slot each.

3 - 3 = 0
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#123 - 2012-06-03 14:13:15 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Tallian Saotome wrote:
If they are using an orca to avoid being blown up, then by all means report them to CCP. That would be an exploit.


You can try it yourself.

Distance to Orca: 20km

Try to open corp hangar and then move items from your ship's cargo to Orca's corp hangar.

You can use carrier to test this if you don't have skills for Orca.


So you are, for the sake of convenience, putting your Covetors in a position where a single Catalyst can blow you up. That's your fault for piloting lazily, not the ship's fault.

Also. 2 Words: Tractor Beam

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#124 - 2012-06-03 14:14:34 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Ah, you mean the miners orca.

Look at the bonuses on an orca, in particular the one related to tractor beams. Ofc, once again, in order to take advantage of this mechanic, you will need to not be AFK, so, yeah.


Orca has 3 high power slots, tractor beam require 1 high power slot.

You use 2 mining links and 1 siege warfare link. All warfare links require 1 high power slot each.

3 - 3 = 0


Why a shield link when you're using Covetors for the fact that it doesn't matter that you lose them?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#125 - 2012-06-03 14:15:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Isana Austrene wrote:
Here's what has me scratching my head.

A Hulk is maybe twice as efficient at mining as a Covetor.

The Hulk costs an order of magnitude more than the Covetor.

Pardon the newbie's question, but under what circumstances does it even make sense to buy a Hulk, if the more expensive ship's defenses can't stand up to determined suicide gankers?


Not twice, it's about 14% only depending on fits.



baltec1 wrote:

The defences of a hulk are more than able to stand up to the vast bulk of gankers but only if the pilot makes use of the defences. An untanked hulk will die as easily as an untanked heavy assault ship.


A covetor has a much better tank than an Hulk:

- The "Don't bother" tank, that makes gankers skip a covetor even if they could pop it with a finger and go for the Hulk that *cannot* earn less money as loot and salvage than a covetor. Plus ganking covetors is not refunded by Goons, while Hulks are.

- The "Shrug The Shoulders" tank also known as insurance, that of course works perfectly well for covetor and il beyond LOL for Hulk.

- The "Who cares" tank, also known as minimum cost. While an Hulk costs 10 times as much AND will usually get T2 mods = more cost = more loot.



Tallian Saotome wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
When people say Hulk is designed for nullsec mining, they should also know that Covertor's can't be tanked in any way. One Catalyst can take out three of them in 0.5.


Only if they are dumb enough to mine all within 10km of each other, otherwise CONCORD will get them after the first.


Yeah they are DUMB to mine within 10km each other...

... but the same people will tell you to keep a defense ship (RubyPorto suggests an AC Tornado = close range), at close range of all of them to kill the incoming catalysts.

Of course the gankers scout... and will just bring a disco boat or 2 and kill both the mining ships and the tasty T2 fit AC Tornado...

So, however you flip it, mining = be called dumb.

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Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#126 - 2012-06-03 14:21:52 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
So you are, for the sake of convenience, putting your Covetors in a position where a single Catalyst can blow you up. That's your fault for piloting lazily, not the ship's fault.


And here you're throwing away everything you've said before.

Mining op: 6 Covetors, Orca and Itty V.

You would need 8 Thoraxes for defense. One for each Covetor and one for Orca and one for Itty (just for the Hek of it).
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#127 - 2012-06-03 14:23:26 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Yeah they are DUMB to mine within 10km each other...

... but the same people will tell you to keep a defense ship (RubyPorto suggests an AC Tornado = close range), at close range of all of them to kill the incoming catalysts.

Of course the gankers scout... and will just bring a disco boat or 2 and kill both the mining ships and the tasty T2 fit AC Tornado...

So, however you flip it, mining = be called dumb.

We are talking about covetors, not hulk, why would you bother with the defender for a covetor? The whole point of using the covetor instead is that its so cheap you can afford to laugh as they die.

You are trying to combine tactics that were mean to be separate just to try and make them look bad.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#128 - 2012-06-03 14:24:01 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:




baltec1 wrote:

The defences of a hulk are more than able to stand up to the vast bulk of gankers but only if the pilot makes use of the defences. An untanked hulk will die as easily as an untanked heavy assault ship.


A covetor has a much better tank than an Hulk:

- The "Don't bother" tank, that makes gankers skip a covetor even if they could pop it with a finger and go for the Hulk that *cannot* earn less money as loot and salvage than a covetor. Plus ganking covetors is not refunded by Goons, while Hulks are.

- The "Shrug The Shoulders" tank also known as insurance, that of course works perfectly well for covetor and il beyond LOL for Hulk.

- The "Who cares" tank, also known as minimum cost. While an Hulk costs 10 times as much AND will usually get T2 mods = more cost = more loot.



[


The coveter is also an option but again, people do silly things like only fit t2 strips and MLU which makes them gank worthy and much easyer to kill than an untanked hulk. The only barge that struggles with a tank vs a destroyer is the procurer and even that can have a 50/50 chance at survival if you tank it.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#129 - 2012-06-03 14:27:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Yeah they are DUMB to mine within 10km each other...

... but the same people will tell you to keep a defense ship (RubyPorto suggests an AC Tornado = close range), at close range of all of them to kill the incoming catalysts.

Of course the gankers scout... and will just bring a disco boat or 2 and kill both the mining ships and the tasty T2 fit AC Tornado...

So, however you flip it, mining = be called dumb.

We are talking about covetors, not hulk, why would you bother with the defender for a covetor? The whole point of using the covetor instead is that its so cheap you can afford to laugh as they die.

You are trying to combine tactics that were mean to be separate just to try and make them look bad.


Because they are bad. Some of them are as functional as a battleclinic fit made on EFT.

While a covetor is a throwaway ship, it will be easily killed and then the ganker WILL (they do all the time where I roam - when I roam) go after the pod. Miners many times have some quite expensive implants (i.e. COSMOS).

Of course now you'll say that miners are not supposed to have anything beyond +2 implants and stuff...

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Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#130 - 2012-06-03 14:27:54 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
The coveter is also an option but again, people do silly things like only fit t2 strips and MLU which makes them gank worthy and much easyer to kill than an untanked hulk. The only barge that struggles with a tank vs a destroyer is the procurer and even that can have a 50/50 chance at survival if you tank it.


I'll pay you 10 million if you tell how to fit Covetor so it survives solo Catalyst gank in 0.5. And like always we assume ganker is experienced, not newbie.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#131 - 2012-06-03 14:29:54 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
The coveter is also an option but again, people do silly things like only fit t2 strips and MLU which makes them gank worthy and much easyer to kill than an untanked hulk. The only barge that struggles with a tank vs a destroyer is the procurer and even that can have a 50/50 chance at survival if you tank it.


I'll pay you 10 million if you tell how to fit Covetor so it survives solo Catalyst gank in 0.5. And like always we assume ganker is experienced, not newbie.


I have witnessed many cov kills, the ganker kills them and then can still kill the pod.

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Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#132 - 2012-06-03 14:30:20 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Because they are bad. Some of them are as functional as a battleclinic fit made on EFT.

While a covetor is a throwaway ship, it will be easily killed and then the ganker WILL (they do all the time where I roam - when I roam) go after the pod. Miners many times have some quite expensive implants (i.e. COSMOS).

Of course now you'll say that miners are not supposed to have anything beyond +2 implants and stuff...

This isn't the lag filled eve it used to be. If you get podded outside of nullsec, it is because you are either VERY bad at EVE, or AFK.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#133 - 2012-06-03 14:30:26 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
So you are, for the sake of convenience, putting your Covetors in a position where a single Catalyst can blow you up. That's your fault for piloting lazily, not the ship's fault.


And here you're throwing away everything you've said before.

Mining op: 6 Covetors, Orca and Itty V.

You would need 8 Thoraxes for defense. One for each Covetor and one for Orca and one for Itty (just for the Hek of it).


What the hell? First, I never suggested Thoraxes.

Mining op: 6 Covetors, Orca and Itty V. Insure Covetors and put a stack of 6 more covetors in the hangar. Done. Use Covetors if you CBA to put in effort to survive. Use Hulks if you want to tank long enough to fight back/perma-tank with RR.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#134 - 2012-06-03 14:33:05 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
I have witnessed many cov kills, the ganker kills them and then can still kill the pod.


That's my point. Cool
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#135 - 2012-06-03 14:33:51 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
I have witnessed many cov kills, the ganker kills them and then can still kill the pod.


That's my point. Cool

Then don't be AFK.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#136 - 2012-06-03 14:36:26 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
The coveter is also an option but again, people do silly things like only fit t2 strips and MLU which makes them gank worthy and much easyer to kill than an untanked hulk. The only barge that struggles with a tank vs a destroyer is the procurer and even that can have a 50/50 chance at survival if you tank it.


I'll pay you 10 million if you tell how to fit Covetor so it survives solo Catalyst gank in 0.5. And like always we assume ganker is experienced, not newbie.


[Covetor, New Setup 1]
Damage Control II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II

Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

Strip Miner I
Strip Miner I
Strip Miner I

Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I

Hornet EC -600 X5
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#137 - 2012-06-03 14:37:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Then don't be AFK.


Not exactly a tank...

Offer is now 5 mil for 22k+ EHP Covetor fit with T2 strip miners. No fitting implants allowed.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#138 - 2012-06-03 14:41:37 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
[Covetor, New Setup 1]
Damage Control II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II

Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

Strip Miner I
Strip Miner I
Strip Miner I

Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I

Hornet EC -600 X5


Even with T2 rigs it's still less than 15k. Not enough.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#139 - 2012-06-03 14:46:31 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
The coveter is also an option but again, people do silly things like only fit t2 strips and MLU which makes them gank worthy and much easyer to kill than an untanked hulk. The only barge that struggles with a tank vs a destroyer is the procurer and even that can have a 50/50 chance at survival if you tank it.


I'll pay you 10 million if you tell how to fit Covetor so it survives solo Catalyst gank in 0.5. And like always we assume ganker is experienced, not newbie.



Assuming a 4m Isk Catalyst, which does 517 DPS (all V skills), a Covetor with 14.2k EHP vs AM ammo, will survive for 27.46s. 7 Seconds longer than CONCORD's spawn time in .5 (20s per Wiki).

Assuming a 15m, T2 Catalyst, which does 665 DPS (all Vs), a Covetor with 14.1 EHP vs Void will survive for 21.2s. 1.2 Seconds longer than CONCORD's spawn time.

No Gang links, No Implants. No leadership skills.


I expect to see my Wallet Blink by the time you post next.


[Covetor, Covetor Miner]

Damage Control II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I

Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

Strip Miner I
Strip Miner I
Strip Miner I

Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


Hammerhead II x5

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#140 - 2012-06-03 14:46:59 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Then don't be AFK.


Not exactly a tank...

Offer is now 5 mil for 22k+ EHP Covetor fit with T2 strip miners. No fitting implants allowed.

I never said anything about tanking it, but the idea is that you are ISK tanking it.

The loss costs you so little that it is meaningless, in other words.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.