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Are Exhumer's a dead ship line ?
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Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#281 - 2012-06-04 13:29:19 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Can be ganked with one destroyer. Faster than 'defensive fleet' can target and destroy that destroyer.
…so mine in 0.7 and up, where it can't be. Or — as the quote you selected suggest — use ISK tanking. Hell, you can even stick some cargo rigs in there and still have it survive.


Not enough EHP to survive solo gank.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#282 - 2012-06-04 13:30:31 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Anything instawarps if it's aligned.


Nope. If it's Covetor going 5 m/s.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#283 - 2012-06-04 13:30:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
And when Goons say "10m for every Covetor/Retriever kill" what you think all gankers will do?
Why would they say that, when there's no money in it?

Quote:
Not enough EHP to survive solo gank.
Incorrect. 10k EHP > 7k damage.

Quote:
Nope.
Incorrect. Everything insta-warps if aligned. That's what it means to be aligned.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#284 - 2012-06-04 13:35:31 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


But their targets aren't PvPers. This also causes them to try getting the PvP aspect sorted by someone else, be it mercs or even asking CCP to intervene.
It might seem strange that not PvPers would join EvE, but it's not.
Many get attracted by quite ambiguous advertising campaings that sure say it's a cold harsh world but they don't say you are meant to be a *spaceship* PvPer. EvE is also market PvP, industry PvP and they come because of these other aspects. When they get told how they are not cut for EvE, maybe who tells that should reflect about why those guys were enticed to play EvE to begin with. They were sold a grand sandbox with PvP, they got delivered ships PvP driving a sandbox.


Yes they are. If you interact with the market in any way, you are a PvPer, thus industrial sabatoge is a legitimate tool for use against you. Ganking is industrial sabatoge, nothing more.

CCP Wrangler wrote:

EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world; it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.


Cold and Harsh isn't flavor, it's fact. Ganking is an example.

Quote:

Yes but CCP likes to entice and get paid by more than the 5k of aptly minded individuals so they throw some nice bait and sgnatch the fish. Of course when said fish finds out they were put in the pan, they won't be overly happy.
Let's see how good they'd sell if they said the truth. If they don't say the truth then they have to deal with the consequences of having also the "wrong" kind of players.

Show me a trailer or ad that doesn't feature PvP and you'd have a point.

Quote:

In the real world they are digging in some 3rd world country with a group of mercs watching on them and who will shoot first, ask for documents later.


You can do that in EvE. It's called Lowsec and Null. In places with effective police forces, shooting first gets you in trouble; just like in HS.

Quote:

And expansions and players pressure drive the developers at adding new or changing old mechanics of the game.
As you perfectly know, half of the sandbox sits outside of the in game sandbox.


The goals are still IG goals, regardless of any OOG advertising and talking they do. (Lulz is also an IG goal, assuming that games are for having fun).

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#285 - 2012-06-04 13:35:36 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Incorrect. 10k EHP > 7k damage.


10k EHP < 14k damage

Tippia wrote:
Incorrect. Everything insta-warps if aligned. That's what it means to be aligned.


So if my Covetor is aligned to station and speed is 5 m/s it will instawarp. Ok...
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#286 - 2012-06-04 13:36:02 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Anything instawarps if it's aligned.


Nope. If it's Covetor going 5 m/s.


That's not aligned.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#287 - 2012-06-04 13:37:26 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Can be ganked with one destroyer. Faster than 'defensive fleet' can target and destroy that destroyer.
…so mine in 0.7 and up, where it can't be. Or — as the quote you selected suggest — use ISK tanking. Hell, you can even stick some cargo rigs in there and still have it survive.


Not enough EHP to survive solo gank.


It is enough to survive a solo catalyst gank in higher Secs. No other solo gank is cost efficient.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#288 - 2012-06-04 13:40:23 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
10k EHP < 14k damage
No, I said 0.7 and up.

Quote:
So if my Covetor is aligned to station and speed is 5 m/s it will instawarp. Ok...
If your Covetor is aligned to a station it will instawarp.
If it's moving at 5m/s it may instawarp depending on what it's max-speed is.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#289 - 2012-06-04 13:41:27 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
That's not aligned.


So Covetor has to move at max speed. That could mean you have to warp to station after every cycle.

Already reduced income: 10m max
You spent maybe 50% in warp or at station: 50% off

10m * 0.5 = 5m

Not worth it when you can get more doing level 3s.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#290 - 2012-06-04 13:42:43 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
That's not aligned.


So Covetor has to move at max speed. That could mean you have to warp to station after every cycle.

Already reduced income: 10m max
You spent maybe 50% in warp or at station: 50% off

10m * 0.5 = 5m

Not worth it when you can get more doing level 3s.


If it's not worth it, Then don't do it.

Also there are ways to reduce your max speed.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#291 - 2012-06-04 13:45:52 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
So Covetor has to move at max speed.
No, it doesn't. It has to move at 75% of max speed. This means it has to re-align (or warp out), oh, every 7½ minute or so — after 2½ cycles (at which point it will be full anyway).
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#292 - 2012-06-04 13:45:57 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
If it's not worth it, Then don't do it.

Also there are ways to reduce your max speed.


It's you who want all miners out.

Web in medium power slot does indeed do good for already nonexistent tank.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#293 - 2012-06-04 13:52:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Jorma Morkkis
Tippia wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
So Covetor has to move at max speed.
No, it doesn't. It has to move at 75% of max speed. This means it has to re-align (or warp out), oh, every 7½ minute or so — after 2½ cycles (at which point it will be full anyway).


It takes around 5½ minutes to get out of bonused (max skilled Orca pilot) strip miner range @ 65,63 m/s.

Assuming you start @ zero.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#294 - 2012-06-04 13:54:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
It takes around 5½ minutes to get out of bonused (max skilled Orca pilot) strip miner range @ 65,63 m/s.
Funny that, my non-bonused strip miners have a reach of 15km, compared to your bonused ones that only reach 10k.

Maybe you should ask for a refund? Both on the strip miners, on the Orca, …and on the fleet mods… and on the pilot skills. In fact, your entire deal seems to have been a very bad one.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#295 - 2012-06-04 14:00:03 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
It takes around 5½ minutes to get out of bonused (max skilled Orca pilot) strip miner range @ 65,63 m/s.
Funny that, my non-bonused strip miners have a reach of 15km, compared to your bonused ones that only reach 10k.


22k if Orca pilot doesn't have mindlink.

@ 65.626 m/s Covetor does 19687.5 m in 5 minutes. Ok, a bit less than 6 minutes to get outside of range.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#296 - 2012-06-04 14:01:30 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


RubyPorto wrote:

Every single successful PvPer ADAPTs their tactics and fits to their circumstances.


But their targets aren't PvPers. This also causes them to try getting the PvP aspect sorted by someone else, be it mercs or even asking CCP to intervene.
It might seem strange that not PvPers would join EvE, but it's not.
Many get attracted by quite ambiguous advertising campaings that sure say it's a cold harsh world but they don't say you are meant to be a *spaceship* PvPer. EvE is also market PvP, industry PvP and they come because of these other aspects. When they get told how they are not cut for EvE, maybe who tells that should reflect about why those guys were enticed to play EvE to begin with. They were sold a grand sandbox with PvP, they got delivered ships PvP driving a sandbox.





Its about time these people learned that they are playing a pvp game and that whenever they undock they face the risk of it and fit accordingly. I have no simpathy for peope who refuse to learn from their mistakes.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#297 - 2012-06-04 14:03:30 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Can be ganked with one destroyer. Faster than 'defensive fleet' can target and destroy that destroyer.
…so mine in 0.7 and up, where it can't be. Or — as the quote you selected suggest — use ISK tanking. Hell, you can even stick some cargo rigs in there and still have it survive.


Not enough EHP to survive solo gank.


More than enough if you tank it.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#298 - 2012-06-04 14:04:46 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
More than enough if you tank it.


14k EHP < 18k-20k damage
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#299 - 2012-06-04 14:06:02 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
22k if Orca pilot doesn't have mindlink.
In other words, you have a 44km-diameter bubble around the asteroid where you're in range. Now, you can't cross this bubble straight through the centre, because there's an asteroid there, but you can get close enough.

So let's say 40km (and you're way off-centre by then). 40km @ 66 m/s = 10 minutes = 3⅓ cycles.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#300 - 2012-06-04 14:08:52 UTC
Tippia wrote:
So let's say 40km (and you're way off-centre by then). 40km @ 66 m/s = 10 minutes = 3⅓ cycles.


Now would be interesting to know where you put all that ore (10k+ m3 of it) when Orca can't keep up at that speed.