EVE General Discussion

I did laugh a bit at the "or remove them" comment. We can pretty much say the same about other ships such as BOs, Industrials and Shuttles. Fix them or remove them...

Exhumers are not dead, but yes they would need a boost in terms of ability to keep it alive, but they're deffo not a dead line.

You know, I just want to say, Jorma Morkkis actually paid the 10m

Not saying it's right or wrong but humans don't easily adapt to the ever changing environment but adapt the environment to them. They will determine that going around a mountain is not what they want and will drill the mountain. If the harshest sandbox of all (RL) works like this, expect to find the same reactions in a virtual sandbox.

Also, if there is 1 guy who is right and 10000000 saying he's wrong, the will be made wrong and stomped over. Not just EvE, but life too is unfair.

So, you may be totally right yet the logical course of action <> what will be the course of action.




You think like a game developer and like them you share the same limitations.
In an actual sandbox, past a certain "breaking point", players would invent specific guns and specific hardened shields to add the ship while not losing performance. It would be retooled to fill the new role, maybe re-branded "Hulk 2000" or something.

If Cerberus was deemed worth being a bait ship then someone would invent a way to slap added tank on it with a minumum drop of performance. Minumum as in some % not 20-30-40%.
This is how humanity works, sad that games don't and thus show all their lack of ingenuity and dynamism.



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Define "active".
For me spamming a button is not "active", nor is "go mad tank and pray for the best".

Active is the role.

The attacker has many advantages (initiative, knows the target tank and so on). He is active for sure.
The defender as of now can only "take". I.e. he may fit to hope and "outlive" the attack, he may D-Scan to cower away. Nothing making him respond fire with fire.
Plus, the attacker can sometimes do all by himself, the target has to resort to passively hope in canned static gimnicks like Concord, if he had a supporting fleet all they can do is to passively wait till the attacker opens fire.
If there was any sense of realism a target's friends would not wait for a guy with huge blazing guns to have shot his liver away before shooting themselves.

One of the fair ways (besides removing Concord, which would be the best solution) would be to be able to launch a small "FFA bubble" (static, can't be moved, pops when the ship it was anchored to warps out). Whoever initiates lock at ships inside that bubble won't be affected by Concord but all those in fleet with the guy in the bubble can immediately and pre-emptively retaliate.

You'll notice how I go to great lengths about ability to assist miners (so it's miners who DID accept to go in a team and don't go AFK). It's because I want to be the player made content who shoots at those locking inside that bubble. No Concord and other bull in the way.




Of course, you went there with the mindset of risking more to earn more.
Those who come on the forum are those who wanted to earn less in exchange of risking less.
Not saying who is right and who is wrong (if there is any), just about how human things work.

The problem is that they won't accept ANY risk, but still want some kind of reward. Mining in a hulk in highsec is a 0 risk thing, without gankers. These miners are trying so hard to make themselves ungankable through a dues ex machina simply because they want a reward without any risk. I might sympathize with their plight during hulkageddon, if the faced any real risk when it was not going on, but since they don't and get so terribly upset when it is on because they have to deal with some risk, I am dead set to see them HTFU or GTFO.

I would much prefer the former. They don't need to be so hard they go to low/null, but they should be hard enough that they are willing to think about it.

Funny story. Recently bought a rorq. That rorq was VERY obviously set up to go ninja mining. This tells me that despite everything being said about how mining is low/null, or during hulkageddon is dumb, and unprofitable, that SOMEONE felt it was worth their while to sneak into someone elses backyard and steal their ores, which tells me that the people claiming otherwise are simply not cut out for EVE, or have been taught wrongly by people who say its impossible to tank a hulk.

No, you also talk from an uninformed position.

I take some statistics to see how a merc corp I know performs. They are specialized in defending targets, so the less the losses the better they did. Sometimes I also fleet with them, mostly for providing bonuses and I bring some larger ships as deterrent. They mostly assist guys with Orca + 4+ mining ships but also take free shots in case some ganker after somebody else lands close enough to be shot at. They cover about 16h a day.

Before this year Hulkageddon the average amount of succesfully ganked ships per day was 24. When they operate, the average goes down to 7.
During Hulkageddon (the 1st month, with prizes etc.) the amount of succesfully ganked ships went up to 73 and judging by the colorful local chat they were mostly non bots. When the mercs operate the average goes down to 16.

What does the above mean? That even in a completely tranquil, non Hulkageddon time there are 24 ships a day that get popped just in that system.
The miners DO accept such risk, in fact I don't recall particular forum complaints before Hulkageddon.

So, don't take free shots at absolutes like "won't accept ANY risk", because it's simply not true.
There's simply a thresold of risk beyond which the average miner starts wondering what's going on and another thresold (probably when they get ganked 2-3 times) beyond which the average miner goes berserker on the forums.

Well since their claims are so stupid, I am ready to bet that if nobody replied in their threads, then they'd stay at first page for 15 minutes and that's it. But we have a number of dedicated posters who seem to like to flame for flaming sake so they bump them forever and ever. Plus we got the Goons who need to grab attention and pose as the evil men and tralala so they also "farm" threads.




But their targets aren't PvPers. This also causes them to try getting the PvP aspect sorted by someone else, be it mercs or even asking CCP to intervene.
It might seem strange that not PvPers would join EvE, but it's not.
Many get attracted by quite ambiguous advertising campaings that sure say it's a cold harsh world but they don't say you are meant to be a *spaceship* PvPer. EvE is also market PvP, industry PvP and they come because of these other aspects. When they get told how they are not cut for EvE, maybe who tells that should reflect about why those guys were enticed to play EvE to begin with. They were sold a grand sandbox with PvP, they got delivered ships PvP driving a sandbox.



Yes but CCP likes to entice and get paid by more than the 5k of aptly minded individuals so they throw some nice bait and sgnatch the fish. Of course when said fish finds out they were put in the pan, they won't be overly happy.
Let's see how good they'd sell if they said the truth. If they don't say the truth then they have to deal with the consequences of having also the "wrong" kind of players.




In the real world they are digging in some 3rd world country with a group of mercs watching on them and who will shoot first, ask for documents later.




And expansions and players pressure drive the developers at adding new or changing old mechanics of the game.
As you perfectly know, half of the sandbox sits outside of the in game sandbox.

If players don't feel that the rewards (including warm fuzzy "I like mining" rewards) for an activity are sufficient to be worth being active in doing that activity, they should do some other activity whose rewards are sufficient.

Would you hit him first? Because in most places, that would put you in the wrong.

You can fight back as a miner. But if you're in a bulldozer, you have limited options for what will be effective if you're attacked by a tank. So you kind of have to wait it out or bring friends in tanks.



If you want proactive player defense, that's what Lowsec and Null are for.

Wardecs allow a different form of combat mechanics to come into existence between two parties. They also give notice that "Hey, the Police aren't coming."



Retrievers and Covetors avoid some 300m Isk worth of risk. Isk tanking, remember. If in your area, there are enough for the lulz gankers out there, then those aren't the right tools for the job in your area either. You might adapt to the high level of gankers in your area by being active (D-scanning), or by mining in Missions, or mining in a Rokh.

Adapting can involve moving. If you don't want to move, you need to figure out ways to mitigate your risk (though I'd strongly suggest moving).

Can be ganked with one destroyer. Faster than 'defensive fleet' can target and destroy that destroyer.

…so mine in 0.7 and up, where it can't be. Or — as the quote you selected suggest — use ISK tanking. Hell, you can even stick some cargo rigs in there and still have it survive.

No they can't. You paid me 10m because I showed that to you. I'm still worried that you've suffered a head injury; your memory doesn't seem to be working right.