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Insurance should be removed from the game, a Problematic Isk Faucet
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Leysritt
The Last Remnant
#21 - 2012-06-02 07:59:36 UTC
cyndrogen wrote:
Leysritt wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
You're aware that insurance doesn't work like that, right? You don't get back whatever you paid for the ship, you get back a fraction of the mineral price of the hull.


Ship destruction ensures the recycling and reduction of minerals used within the game.

Insurance generates isk for the destruction of the ship. The person who sold you the ship doesn't lose any isk. The NPC gives you isk that is generated out of thin air, it didn't come from someone else's pockets, it was generated within the game.



In real life Insurance gives you money from a pool that is generated by fees paid by people who are subscribed to the insurance programs of that company. That money is not generated out of thin air like in this game.



and how do you get the insurance in the first place? Out of thin air? No you pay for it, with ISK, sometimes that insurance runs out and you buy it again..... hmmmm doesn't sound like thin air does it? Your brain may have suffered brain damage from drinking pod fluid.


You pay 30 million for a 100 million insurance.

Where does that 70 million come from?
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#22 - 2012-06-02 08:03:06 UTC
Leysritt wrote:

e.g. Bob buys Rokh from Jill for 140 million. Bob insures platinum ship for 30 million for 140 million back.

Bob take the Rokh to PVP and dies in a fire. Bob gets 140 million back, a net gain of 110 million back in his wallet(lost 30 million + cost of fittings total). Meanwhile Jill gets to keep the 140 million she got from selling the ship.


OR Bob takes it to PVP once, doesn't die in a fire, does PVE for the rest of the time and runs out his insurance without claiming it. CCP Diagoras should dig up some numbers how many insurance policies go unclaimed. I think it's quite a lot.

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Leisen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#23 - 2012-06-02 08:07:26 UTC
Leysritt wrote:


You pay 30 million for a 100 million insurance.

Where does that 70 million come from?


WHOA! WHERE ARE YOU GETTING FREE SHIPS?! :D
Leysritt
The Last Remnant
#24 - 2012-06-02 08:09:11 UTC
If Insurance is not a big deal as people say, then i'm sure no one would miss it or object to it being removed.
Alara IonStorm
#25 - 2012-06-02 08:09:57 UTC
I would like t see it gone past 4 months for new players.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-06-02 08:12:23 UTC
Ship insurance is one of several game mechanics that, while helpful in the games early days, it has in fact aged badly. It needs to be addressed All of you theorizing on real life insurance and ISK sinks and magical minerals need to stop slapping each other and encourage CCP to look into the matter.
Solhild
Doomheim
#27 - 2012-06-02 08:13:24 UTC
Leysritt wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
What's the problem in what you describe?


You buy a ship from someone for 140 million.

You ensure ship for 30 million with a 140 million payout.

Ship gets blown up you get 140 million back (110 net since you paid 30 million for it)

The seller of the ship still has the 140 million.

You get 140 million back after insurance.

Starting
Your wallet Seller's Wallet Total Isk circulating
170mil + 0mil = 170mil

Purchase
Your wallet Seller's Wallet Total isk
30 mil + 140 mil = 170 mil

You pay 100% insurance
Your Wallet Seller's Wallet Total Isk
0 + 140 mil = 140 mil

Ship blow up you get paid out
Your Wallet Seller's Wallet Total isk
140 mil + 140 mil = 280 mil


Final Total Isk - Starting Total isk
280mil - 170 mil = 110 million


A 110 million was added into the isk circulation of the game, devaluing isk and causing inflation.

Isk is added into the game as a faucet, vastly increasing the amount of isk in the game.


Logic fail What?
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2012-06-02 08:20:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Richard Desturned
Leysritt wrote:
If Insurance is not a big deal as people say, then i'm sure no one would miss it or object to it being removed.


keep liking your own posts with an alt it's hilarious

insurance partially subsidizes destroyed ships, which means that a destroyed ship is more easily replaced, which means that minerals remain in demand

the partial subsidy of destroyed ships is also useful to newer players who would otherwise be affected more by losing their T1 fit Omens than I am when I lose a faction fit Zealot

insurance has seen two fairly significant nerfs - one was the much-needed 2010 nerf which killed off the self-destructing of ships in Jita for profit, the other was the removal of insurance payouts for ships lost to CONCORD

insurance is fine

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
#29 - 2012-06-02 11:16:30 UTC
Leysritt wrote:
You should not be given a single bit of isk when you risk your ship and lose it. It should be a tougher lesson when losing a ship.

I'm a newish player here, but as I understand it, when I undock my Punisher, I'm risking my ship. While there are ways to minimize risk, there's no way for me to eliminate it altogether. Insurance means that even if I lose the ship, I can at least replace the hull.

Perhaps it goes against the spirit of the game, but I like the safety net it provides while I'm learning to play and seeing just how much I can risk.

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Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#30 - 2012-06-02 11:25:14 UTC
Yet another self-rationalised, self-aggrandizing demand to nerf yet another brick in the Eve wall.

Pathetic.

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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#31 - 2012-06-02 11:34:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Akita T
Leysritt wrote:
big increase in the amount of isk within the economy

Only dev-provided ISK faucet breakdown (daily totals snapshot from 2010.10.17-18, Sun-Mon) :
http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1401431&page=3#67
78% NPC bounties
12% mission rewards + time bonuses
~7% insurance balance (10% faucet of payouts - 3% sink of premiums)

Not really that much of a big deal if you ask me.
Unless you have any newer data that says otherwise.
Can we see the data in that case ?

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Kiteo Hatto
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2012-06-02 11:34:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Kiteo Hatto
Wow.



Insurance in eve exists to encourage people to go and pvp more.


People avoid accidents and crashes in RL because insurance is a pain.
Now imagine what would happen if insurance got real cheap in RL.(god forbid removed)
See my point ?

Now, granted, t1 hulls have more options to get the "more" back at "slightly higher" cost, but thats because you are a lot more likely to lose a t1 hull.

T2 hulls are more specialized to the insurance options cannot be the same, because t2 hulls are simply better at surviving stuff.(in most cases)
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#33 - 2012-06-02 11:41:32 UTC
Leysritt wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
And?


Geez I explain it you and you still don't get it even though I explicitly said it you stupid monkey.


No one gets it because you're making no sense. About the only thing I got out of your sperg is that you're a tool.

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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
#34 - 2012-06-02 11:49:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Akita T
Nah, he's making sense, but he's blowing it way out of proportion.
We're talking ~7% of the ISK faucets here according to the only data we have.
Not exactly game-threatening if you ask me.

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Gonada
Fixers Corporation
Pillars of Liberty
#35 - 2012-06-02 11:51:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Gonada
What they should do is what real insurance agencies do.

Every time you loose a ship insurance goes up. Don't loose a ship for a time it g
oes down
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#36 - 2012-06-02 11:51:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Leysritt wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
And?
Geez I explain it you and you still don't get it even though I explicitly said it you stupid monkey.
No. You only did some maths. You didn't explain what the problem is.

…especially considering how small an ISK faucet insurance is.

You also vastly simplify, to the point of ignoring, the many steps that go into getting that payout and what it actually represents.

Gonada wrote:
What they should do is what real insurance agencies do.

Every time you loose a ship insurance goes up. Don't loose a ship for a ti.e, goes down
No, they really shouldn't. Insurance is a game mechanic, not a business. Specifically, it's a game mechanic that is meant to take the edge off of ship losses, thereby incentivising acts that may get your ship blown up. It's also, even after the market-cost change, what gives value to minerals.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#37 - 2012-06-02 11:52:59 UTC
Gonada wrote:
What they should do is what real insurance agencies do.

Every time you loose a ship insurance goes up. Don't loose a ship for a ti.e, goes down


And look for any reason they can not to pay out.

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Ayeshah Volfield
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2012-06-02 12:14:51 UTC
Would it be better for insurance payout to be in minerals then ?

EVE is what happens when the rule of law does not apply and Darwinism is allowed to run freely.
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#39 - 2012-06-02 12:23:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Ptraci
OP forgets to account for all the ships whose insurance expires or cancelled without a ship loss, resulting in the premium being an isk sink. Also you never get 100% - premium back , it's more like 80% of the ship value.
Tor Gungnir
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2012-06-02 12:26:45 UTC
The original poster is either a moron or a troll. Insurance is one of the biggest ISK sinks in the game... Roll

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