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It's time to PUT UP or SHUT UP.
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Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#161 - 2012-06-02 09:08:31 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
What needs a buff is to remove concord and put players. Even just temporarily and for a requester, like war dec ally mechanic works.


They already have that in-game, it's called lowsec and nullsec. Oh wait, you don't want the downsides that come with that, do you?

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#162 - 2012-06-02 09:14:26 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:


You can mine in a Rokh just fine in 30min. There are, as you found, plenty of things to do with just 30min playtimes.


Makes sense, they come teached by ISDs in rookie chat to become miners (like I did) what ships to get, what skills to train, they get pointed to Halada's miner guide listing the ships. They buy those ships and feel accomplished and then some weeks later (if ever) they read they did all wrong, should have trained a combat ship, should have chosen different stats, prioritized other implants...

At least acknowldege it's a shoddy kick in the balls and counter intuitive to say the least. Game should not require to read GD.


If ISDs are pushing people towards mining in a Hulk, that's a bad on the ISDs and ISD training should be improved. If they're being asked specifically what has the best mining yield, the question asker asked the wrong question.

At the same time, I don't have much sympathy for them. I've lost tons of ships because I listened to the wrong advice or while trying out new fittings. Of course, I lost most on SiSi because that lets me test things with no risk.

Quote:

Quote:

Has Helicity said that he doesn't like the goonswarm backing? If not, then sounds like he doesn't feel abused.


I feel he has been abused, it's my sponsor money I do what I want with it.


If you feel that you can't sponsor HAG anymore, that is your right. I'm saying that abuse is kind of a serious accusation when the "abused" has made no mention of feeling wronged (nor is there evidence of coercion).
Quote:


You can also daily wipe your butt with sandpaper. It works.

While ofc course your ideas work, tbh I'd prefer risking losing a ship than adopting them, because it's a game not a crucifixion. And if losing the ship would be too often I'd switch doing any other easier task including doing anoms in low sec, doing WHs. But never in 0.0, because since they DEMAND people to go 0.0 I will unsub before I obey.

Losing your ships is in fact in two of the 13 options I give.

I'll Recap.

1. Continue Mining like normal and Accept the losses
2. Continue Mining as normal but in a Covetor and Accept the losses
3. Mine in a Rokh, comfortably immune* to Suicide Ganks
4. Tank your Hulk and Accept a lower number of Losses from edge case profit based ganks.
5. Tank your Hulk with RR and be comfortable immune to Suicide Ganks
6. Mine in a Normally Fit Hulk but use a short range D-Scan to escape ganks
7. Set up safespots such that you can maintain a rough orbit in range of a roid by aligning to each BM in turn
8. Set up Hulks to Web each other, mine aligned to 1 SS at 7m/s (warpable speed) (can be done @ max yield)
9. Watch local for known gankers, accept the occasional gank from unknown ganks
10. Mine in Mission pockets.
11. Mine in Grav Sites, occasionally scanning D-Scan
12. Tank your Hulk and have friends in BLAP AC Nados ready to shoot (one should kill a Cat before you die, failing the gank)
13. Tank your Hulk and have friends with ECM
14. Tank your Hulk and run 5x Med ECM drones and accept that you'll die if they fail
15. Mine in Lowsec (can be done solo in a quiet system)
16. Mine in Null (can be done solo in a quiet NPC sov system)
17. Mine in WH space

*all cases of immunity from Suicide Ganks assume profit-based ganks. Non-Profit based ganks are rare and are not something that can be negated by game mechanics changes besides eliminating ganks, thus can be ignored.

Show me a person's situation where ALL of those will not work.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#163 - 2012-06-02 09:16:07 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:


No matter your profession, Eve will kick you in the balls with a steel-toed boot many times over. That's where "don't fly what you can't afford to lose" comes from. Also, if that's not the first lesson being taught to any player, at all, ever, then someone screwed up. Every lesson you can ever learn in Eve comes back to that core idea, that once you hit Undock, all bets are off.


Yes and it's good!

But every thing is better when done with moderation.

If I had been a 11 days old player (thus I could have been in a barge) and I sad Final Solution campaings, to be pointed as the reject of the universe, to be theorized subsidized, programmed vast scale extermination, I would have quit for sure. It'd had been too much in too short time to accept it. What do they say about slowly boiling frogs again?

Instead I learned it in a bearable way, not to take the mission at Bei sending me to deliver cigarettes in Rancer (my first mission ever! Imagine the outcome).
I learned not to haul an indy full of minerals in low sec 16 jumps away just because they offer 0.01 ISK more.
I learned to spam warp to planet the first day I entered OMS in a Rifter and got lag killed in some epic gate camp.
I learned to not warp directly to gates (Rancer again!) because disco happens.
I learned to not warp directly to gates in 0.0 because bubbles happen.

Plus 1000 other things that made me better. But they came at a recoverable, bearable pace, not because someone fed them to me like they do with industrial battery farming, where they make animals swallow stuff almost to death.

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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#164 - 2012-06-02 09:17:13 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
What needs a buff is to remove concord and put players. Even just temporarily and for a requester, like war dec ally mechanic works.


They already have that in-game, it's called lowsec and nullsec. Oh wait, you don't want the downsides that come with that, do you?


Nullsec is worthless for what I care.
Lowsec is actually my favored place, so try this on someone else, mkay?

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Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#165 - 2012-06-02 09:18:18 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Nullsec is worthless for what I care.
Lowsec is actually my favored place, so try this on someone else, mkay?


Good for you! Doesn't mean your suggestion to allow the importation of convenient low/null features into highsec temporarily and without the associated downsides isn't mind-numbingly ******** though.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#166 - 2012-06-02 09:22:19 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:

I'll Recap.

1. Continue Mining like normal and Accept the losses
2. Continue Mining as normal but in a Covetor and Accept the losses
3. Mine in a Rokh, comfortably immune* to Suicide Ganks
4. Tank your Hulk and Accept a lower number of Losses from edge case profit based ganks.
5. Tank your Hulk with RR and be comfortable immune to Suicide Ganks
6. Mine in a Normally Fit Hulk but use a short range D-Scan to escape ganks
7. Set up safespots such that you can maintain a rough orbit in range of a roid by aligning to each BM in turn
8. Set up Hulks to Web each other, mine aligned to 1 SS at 7m/s (warpable speed) (can be done @ max yield)
9. Watch local for known gankers, accept the occasional gank from unknown ganks
10. Mine in Mission pockets.
11. Mine in Grav Sites, occasionally scanning D-Scan
12. Tank your Hulk and have friends in BLAP AC Nados ready to shoot (one should kill a Cat before you die, failing the gank)
13. Tank your Hulk and have friends with ECM
14. Tank your Hulk and run 5x Med ECM drones and accept that you'll die if they fail
15. Mine in Lowsec (can be done solo in a quiet system)
16. Mine in Null (can be done solo in a quiet NPC sov system)
17. Mine in WH space

*all cases of immunity from Suicide Ganks assume profit-based ganks. Non-Profit based ganks are rare and are not something that can be negated by game mechanics changes besides eliminating ganks, thus can be ignored.

Show me a person's situation where ALL of those will not work.


Some of those don't work (tried the orbit around something still easy to kill), some are impractical, some are excellent, but I chose 18 (don't mine) and am quite happy with it.

Can't comment on the consensus you'll get at people having a Ferrari since years that the best they should do is to put it in garage, downgrade to Honda and similar but that's not something me or you can do anything about.

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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#167 - 2012-06-02 09:23:11 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Nullsec is worthless for what I care.
Lowsec is actually my favored place, so try this on someone else, mkay?


Good for you! Doesn't mean your suggestion to allow the importation of convenient low/null features into highsec temporarily and without the associated downsides isn't mind-numbingly ******** though.


Why, do you prefer a PLAYER DRIVEN game or NPC WoW crap? I am all for having all player driven everywhere even in high sec.

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RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#168 - 2012-06-02 09:23:52 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:

I usually posted one or two suggestions like that in gank threads I posted on.

Either Hulks need a buff or they don't. Player actions do not change game mechanics.


Hulks needing a buff? Lol no. Macks maybe, they suck so royally hard yet they are also meant to be in 0.0.

What needs a buff is to remove concord and put players. Even just temporarily and for a requester, like war dec ally mechanic works.

Wanna bet with me that the next week suicide ganking suddenly halts? Because don't lie to me, the suicide gankers are spineless hi seccers grazing on the short bus citizens, if they EVER found opposition they'd stop and create 100 times as many threads on GD than miners do.


If the players couldn't shoot until someone goes GCC and couldn't warp to a spot until GCC, sure. I'll bet ganks skyrocket.

Quote:

RubyPorto wrote:


The Mittani is organizing this because it makes ISK for the GSF. He's driving the Tech price up to milk it for all its worth before it gets nerfed.

As for whatever Sub Decline projections you've made, that's not something you can make the way Akita's Tech graphs were made. Right now, Subs have been climbing since Incarna's drop, so I don't think ∞HAG is causing a drop in Subs to begin with.


1) I don't like Mittani but I hold him in higher consideration than you do. He's not stupid, he can easily manage a basic multi-layer agenda. Who did a lot for EvE when in the CSM again?

2) Like FET transistors, I play "base" and convey people to do what I desire by using other people's high power infrastructures. Sometimes it works (i.e. nitro isotopes first peak) sometimes it does not but it's worth trying, metagame > all.

3) My predictions made before Incarna regarded Incarna. Did you see predictions or posts of mine about the next playerbase drops, due to hulkageddon? No, eh? Why? Because I am actually helped if people quits over this.


1) I didn't say it's the only reason. Other reasons include: Shits and Giggles, It was the Logical Conclusion to the Ice interdictions, Goons are bored due to Nullsec's current bust in activity (Null activity is cyclical) and he wants to make sure another alliance is the one to fragment, starting the next boom. But profit's a pretty good motive.

2) EvE's metagame is awesome.

3) In that case, sorry. I hadn't seen your Incarna predictions (or didn't remember seeing them), and so I assumed you were talking about one of the countless "HAG causing Server Decline" threads in GD.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Lustralis
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#169 - 2012-06-02 09:24:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Lustralis
RubyPorto wrote:


18. Invite concord to your mining party so you don't have to wait 30 seconds for it to arrive.



You totally missed that ^. Also, mining in WH space? That's like... pretty dangerous, unless you want to spend half your life probing for and closing WH into your system and even then you won't know for sure if anyone else is in there Bear.
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#170 - 2012-06-02 09:27:40 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Why, do you prefer a PLAYER DRIVEN game or NPC WoW crap? I am all for having all player driven everywhere even in high sec.


If this means removing CONCORD, then yes I'm 100% for it. I'm not for halfassed solutions like being able to flick CONCORD off when it's not convenient for you.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#171 - 2012-06-02 09:28:23 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:

I'll Recap.

1. Continue Mining like normal and Accept the losses
2. Continue Mining as normal but in a Covetor and Accept the losses
3. Mine in a Rokh, comfortably immune* to Suicide Ganks
4. Tank your Hulk and Accept a lower number of Losses from edge case profit based ganks.
5. Tank your Hulk with RR and be comfortable immune to Suicide Ganks
6. Mine in a Normally Fit Hulk but use a short range D-Scan to escape ganks
7. Set up safespots such that you can maintain a rough orbit in range of a roid by aligning to each BM in turn
8. Set up Hulks to Web each other, mine aligned to 1 SS at 7m/s (warpable speed) (can be done @ max yield)
9. Watch local for known gankers, accept the occasional gank from unknown ganks
10. Mine in Mission pockets.
11. Mine in Grav Sites, occasionally scanning D-Scan
12. Tank your Hulk and have friends in BLAP AC Nados ready to shoot (one should kill a Cat before you die, failing the gank)
13. Tank your Hulk and have friends with ECM
14. Tank your Hulk and run 5x Med ECM drones and accept that you'll die if they fail
15. Mine in Lowsec (can be done solo in a quiet system)
16. Mine in Null (can be done solo in a quiet NPC sov system)
17. Mine in WH space

*all cases of immunity from Suicide Ganks assume profit-based ganks. Non-Profit based ganks are rare and are not something that can be negated by game mechanics changes besides eliminating ganks, thus can be ignored.

Show me a person's situation where ALL of those will not work.


Some of those don't work (tried the orbit around something still easy to kill), some are impractical, some are excellent, but I chose 18 (don't mine) and am quite happy with it.

Can't comment on the consensus you'll get at people having a Ferrari since years that the best they should do is to put it in garage, downgrade to Honda and similar but that's not something me or you can do anything about.


Orbiting is not "Press Orbit" it's "Make 4+ Safes around your belt. Align to each one in turn so you are always aligned to something warpable at full speed while staying in range of your roid. If a hostile lands, insta-warp to your safe.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Francisco Bizzaro
#172 - 2012-06-02 09:32:46 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Makes sense, they come teached by ISDs in rookie chat to become miners (like I did) what ships to get, what skills to train, they get pointed to Halada's miner guide listing the ships. They buy those ships and feel accomplished and then some weeks later (if ever) they read they did all wrong, should have trained a combat ship, should have chosen different stats, prioritized other implants...

In that case, it sounds like the main problem is that miners are getting bad advice.

The most effective way to solve that problem is to give miners good advice. If they felt any kind of community spirit, miners could deal with this the way every other community does: Update their 5 year old guides to reflect the modern game. James 315 claims to have written his manifestos while waiting out GCC timers. Maybe miners could put some of their AFK brain power to work in a similar fashion.

Of course, that would require a certain amount of proactive energy and thinking about the game, and maybe even acknowledging that some of their problems can be solved in-game. So it's not difficult to see why this idea doesn't get much traction among miners.
Lustralis
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#173 - 2012-06-02 09:32:55 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:

Orbiting is not "Press Orbit" it's "Make 4+ Safes around your belt. Align to each one in turn so you are always aligned to something warpable at full speed while staying in range of your roid. If a hostile lands, insta-warp to your safe.


That's the problem. Mining dulls the brain. Your reaction time reduces the longer you mine for. It can take 30 seconds or more to recognise the situation might be problematic and execute the warp!
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#174 - 2012-06-02 09:33:20 UTC
Lustralis wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:


18. Invite concord to your mining party so you don't have to wait 30 seconds for it to arrive.



You totally missed that ^. Also, mining in WH space? That's like... pretty dangerous, unless you want to spend half your life probing for and closing WH into your system and even then you won't know for sure if anyone else is in there Bear.


CONCORD's can be baited away just as easily. It gives a false sense of security.

Yeah, there are still 16 more if you don't like WH.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Horace Nancyball
The Whiskers of Kurvi-Tasch
#175 - 2012-06-02 09:39:49 UTC
Drunk Driver wrote:

I'd rather watch videos of old women being shoved out of airplanes.


Got a link?
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#176 - 2012-06-02 09:40:53 UTC
Lustralis wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:

Orbiting is not "Press Orbit" it's "Make 4+ Safes around your belt. Align to each one in turn so you are always aligned to something warpable at full speed while staying in range of your roid. If a hostile lands, insta-warp to your safe.


That's the problem. Mining dulls the brain. Your reaction time reduces the longer you mine for. It can take 30 seconds or more to recognise the situation might be problematic and execute the warp!


Solution: Amphetamines. Worked for Radar Operators in the '80s.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
The Groundskeeper
State War Academy
Caldari State
#177 - 2012-06-02 10:04:12 UTC
Sunshine when I mine for two hours with all my characters in my sweet little, private, nullsec, dead-end system I make about 550 milllion ISK. Why would I go to the trouble of videoing myself doing it for your pitiful, highsec, poverty-stricken 5 million ISK? Our rawest newbies make more than that in 20 minutes in a salvaging ship.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#178 - 2012-06-02 10:06:47 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
I don't make video's for free. … I am unable to play for 2 hours everyday, so I will commit to mining for 4 hours each day I play to compensate.


The point of the OP was that no-one is going to sit staring at the screen for two hours a day just to make 30M ISK.

You walked into that one with your eyes wide open.


The point of the OP was to declare a challenge. I am prepared to accept said challenge. All transactions will be Chribba or Darkness secured, OP pays the fees.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Tasiv Deka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#179 - 2012-06-02 10:15:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Tasiv Deka
Lustralis wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:


18. Invite concord to your mining party so you don't have to wait 30 seconds for it to arrive.



You totally missed that ^. Also, mining in WH space? That's like... pretty dangerous, unless you want to spend half your life probing for and closing WH into your system and even then you won't know for sure if anyone else is in there Bear.


As for WH mining: Eh not really just do it in groups and be willing to drop the mining op and swap to a combat ship... or use a mining BS...

Overall:
also all this jazz that the EULA doesnt require playing with other people...that is technically right but its about the same as going hunting with out a rifle/bow/shotgun/etc yea i suppose you could spec ops it by hiding in the tree dropping on the deer and snapping its neck but seriously why would you add unnecessary risk to a formula that works. Seriously though i do occasionally do things solo (having more free time then the rest of the corp makes that a necessity) but when i do its usually prep work for the MULTI player function of the game.

As for the AFK hate there does need to be some clarification what most people hate is the "Well i can leave my ship here mining for 30 mins so ill do that to earn more isk then i would docking up or POSing up while i go make this sandwich" i for one dont mind the "OH CRAP MY KID IS RUNNING WITH SCISSORS" type AFK that stuff happens and is unavoidable its the well i want to play the game without playing it thats bad... seriously you want to do that go do Invention/PI/Non .01 isk trading.

TLDR: WH mining is for the smart/brave/or even Bait retrievers, Playing a MMO(MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE game) and then complaining that Timmy and Jimmy are working together and have an advantage over little ole solo you is pointless and nonproductive and Trying to play the game without you know actually playing the game is idiotic (however timer based {invention/PI/whatnot} activities are not included due to mechanic) and completely different then emergency situations afking (which if you follow my advice about not playing solo if you can help it you can have a fleet boss warp the squad out if the situation gets bad{personally done it for a five man mining fleet} regardless of if anyone else is available)

Oh, Do go on... no seriously ive got nothing better to do then listen to all the petty arguments and feeble trolling attempts... 

The sad thing is i'm not sure if i'm telling the truth.
Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
#180 - 2012-06-02 10:35:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Makkal Hanaya
Le Dei Opus wrote:

4) You must be in Caldari space.

Why Caldari space?

RubyPorto wrote:

Solution: Amphetamines. Worked for Radar Operators in the '80s.

If I had amphetamines, I wouldn't spend my leisure time playing EVE. Just saying.

Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's.