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Tanking the hulk: medium ancillary shield booster

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Mechael
Tribal Liberation Distribution and Retail
#81 - 2012-06-12 03:47:16 UTC
Spikeflach wrote:
most people don't go out in a hulk expecting to engage in combat with another player...


This is the biggest part of the problem. This right here.

Whether or not you win the game matters not.  It's if you bought it.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#82 - 2012-06-12 04:14:42 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
B-b-b-b-b-but that doesn't optimise my ISK/hr ratio at all! How can I possibly be expected to make fitting trade offs like everyone else does as a miner?

easy ... bend over and put your head between your legs.....

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#83 - 2012-06-12 04:18:43 UTC
Simetraz wrote:
FYI before you go talking about why a high-sec exhumer should sacrifice yield you might want to check with people that mine in 0.0.

You will find they don't sacrifice one little bit yield to mine in Null.

Now why do you think a high-sec miner should there sacrifice yield ?





that's because null sec is safe ... that's where the real carebears are. The risk in 0.0 is about the same as it is in high sec .. so it's time to return the reward to high sec to go with the proven risk.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#84 - 2012-06-12 04:24:19 UTC
Barbara Nichole wrote:
Simetraz wrote:
FYI before you go talking about why a high-sec exhumer should sacrifice yield you might want to check with people that mine in 0.0.

You will find they don't sacrifice one little bit yield to mine in Null.

Now why do you think a high-sec miner should there sacrifice yield ?





that's because null sec is safe ... that's where the real carebears are. The risk in 0.0 is about the same as it is in high sec .. so it's time to return the reward to high sec to go with the proven risk.


When was the last time you saw a sov war in highsec?

0.0 can only be safe if people fight to make it safe. High secers do nothing to secure the safety of concord and faction police.
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#85 - 2012-06-12 04:52:19 UTC
Tanking a hulk? What is this wizardry you speak of?

Sugar Von MurdererTits : Jake Warbird gets my vote for most intriguing and attractive male character in Eve.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#86 - 2012-06-12 06:37:35 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Barbara Nichole wrote:
that's because null sec is safe ... that's where the real carebears are. The risk in 0.0 is about the same as it is in high sec .. so it's time to return the reward to high sec to go with the proven risk.


When was the last time you saw a sov war in highsec?

0.0 can only be safe if people fight to make it safe. High secers do nothing to secure the safety of concord and faction police.


A friend of a friend of a friend of a friend once saw somebody get suicide ganked, therefore highsec is obviously the most dangerous place in the game.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Psychotic Monk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#87 - 2012-06-12 06:58:21 UTC
Ris Dnalor wrote:


so how many cap booster chargers can you fit in your cargo? Wouldn't it be easier to just fly a Rokh?


Well, the cap boosters fit directly into the mod, costing no cargo space. You turn the tank on when something lands on grid. It will last long enough for you to survive and leave. The X-L fits 13 navy 400's. I can't be bothered to look up the medium and how many of its equivalent it fits, but I'd imagine it'd be similar. At 4s a cycle (if no bonuses), that's 52 seconds, which is more than enough to survive a suicide gank.

Belligerent Undesirables Selling Griefer Immunity
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din
Commonwealth Vanguard
#88 - 2012-06-12 07:05:51 UTC
Sacrifice ISK/Hour AND look at the screen? NEVAR!

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Bossy Lady
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#89 - 2012-06-12 08:24:18 UTC
Simetraz wrote:
FYI before you go talking about why a high-sec exhumer should sacrifice yield you might want to check with people that mine in 0.0.

You will find they don't sacrifice one little bit yield to mine in Null.

Now why do you think a high-sec miner should there sacrifice yield ?





Because the nullsec hulks organise with hundreds of fellow players, and usually have to pay refining taxes for the privilege as well.

When you too put the effort into co-ordinating with a large group then you too will gain benefits from doing so.

Posting on this character because apparently some people get upset when they're asked difficult questions. M.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#90 - 2012-06-12 08:41:28 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
[Hulk, New Setup 2]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Damage Control II

Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Dread Guristas Thermic Dissipation Field

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


Mining Drone II x5


37k ehp against blasters but hey I guess 15% more yield is more important than surviving because CCP will make hisec safer for you right?


Expensive, couldn't fly it in a 50M SP industry alt I selected when I imported it in EFT (so it's also very SP demanding), requires +4% CPU even with all skills to V, actual tank is 32k. I prefer Rubyporto's fits by a large margin.

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Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#91 - 2012-06-12 11:27:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Snow Axe
Yeah, how expensive - mods that cost a whole 10 million tops (MAPC II) on a T2 ship that costs several hundred million isk. Be reasonable guys!

Also really, expecting people to have fitting skills on a character that flies T2 ships? Come on, now! That's just downright ~silly~

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
X1376
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#92 - 2012-06-12 11:38:04 UTC
Simetraz wrote:
You will find they don't sacrifice one little bit yield to mine in Null.

Now why do you think a high-sec miner should there sacrifice yield ?

Null sec miner is not sacrificing tank as sacrifice his yield for the protection given by alliance, and believe me, in some communist like alliances they do not really own what they mine. :P

But do not worry! There are good news. Nobody is forbidding high-sec miners to form proper alliance and get bunch of guys protecting them actively. And hey! You can even hire some if you do not want to bother with alliance forming itself.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#93 - 2012-06-12 13:05:19 UTC
Bossy Lady wrote:
Simetraz wrote:
FYI before you go talking about why a high-sec exhumer should sacrifice yield you might want to check with people that mine in 0.0.

You will find they don't sacrifice one little bit yield to mine in Null.

Now why do you think a high-sec miner should there sacrifice yield ?





Because the nullsec hulks organise with hundreds of fellow players, and usually have to pay refining taxes for the privilege as well.

When you too put the effort into co-ordinating with a large group then you too will gain benefits from doing so.


+1

But that's what whiney-entitled miner guy doesn't get. A lot of high sec people (but by no means all) likewise don't get it.

We've had this same "discussion" with members of the so-called Incursion communities. We (I and others who were asking for high sec incursions to be balanced) were opposed to the idea of someone under concord protection making as much individual isk as someone in null PVEing (when one guy in a cloaky ship can come in and shut it all down).

Of course, they said "but you null sec people can do pve in null sec solo, why should we make less isk doing group pve", at which point we explained that, to be in null sec was already a group effort because , if it is safe, it's safe because PEOPLE (not concord) made it safe. Even solo ratting in an upgraded system is a "group activitey" because the group maintains it 23/7.

Yadda Yada, the point is that you are supposed to be able to do things in null (or low, or WHs) that you can't in High sec, because high sec has the built in trade off of automatic protection from (or at least consequences for) non-consensual pvp.

If you want to do "max yield mining", go to null sec and "Corp Up" for protection....OR do the same thing in high sec + tank your ship. It's really simple.
Copine Callmeknau
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#94 - 2012-06-12 13:31:31 UTC
Simetraz wrote:
FYI before you go talking about why a high-sec exhumer should sacrifice yield you might want to check with people that mine in 0.0.

You will find they don't sacrifice one little bit yield to mine in Null.

Now why do you think a high-sec miner should there sacrifice yield ?



So move to null?

There should be a rather awesome pic here
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
#95 - 2012-06-12 13:42:26 UTC
Might as well fly a Covetor if you are going to do that.
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
#96 - 2012-06-12 13:47:55 UTC
Copine Callmeknau wrote:
Simetraz wrote:
FYI before you go talking about why a high-sec exhumer should sacrifice yield you might want to check with people that mine in 0.0.

You will find they don't sacrifice one little bit yield to mine in Null.

Now why do you think a high-sec miner should there sacrifice yield ?



So move to null?


The difference being, of course, that out in null once your hulk is pointed its going to die tanked or not.

You make a valid point, good Sir or Madam. 
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#97 - 2012-06-12 13:49:33 UTC  |  Edited by: FloppieTheBanjoClown
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Expensive, couldn't fly it in a 50M SP industry alt I selected when I imported it in EFT (so it's also very SP demanding), requires +4% CPU even with all skills to V, actual tank is 32k. I prefer Rubyporto's fits by a large margin.


I'll agree that it's a good idea to avoid faction mods on a gank target like a hulk. Even if they're cheap, a ganker choosing between multiple tanked targets will pick you to get those faction mods on the killmail. But skills?

I have about 33 million SP right now. I can fly every T2 subcap except marauders, interdictors, and heavy interdictors. I can fly every flavor of T3 and have skills for 2/3 T2 large turret systems. I've cross-trained to use several T2 missiles as well. I have near-perfect shield AND armor tanking skills, both active and passive. I can scan, hack, and salvage with the best of them. I can also fly a hulk and have basic manufacturing skills.

A hulk pilot shouldn't be flying a hulk without basic fitting and defensive skills. If you're putting a 50M character in a hulk and CAN'T fit a basic tank, you deserve to lose that ship.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#98 - 2012-06-12 14:00:03 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Expensive, couldn't fly it in a 50M SP industry alt I selected when I imported it in EFT (so it's also very SP demanding), requires +4% CPU even with all skills to V, actual tank is 32k. I prefer Rubyporto's fits by a large margin.


I'll agree that it's a good idea to avoid faction mods on a gank target like a hulk. Even if they're cheap, a ganker choosing between multiple tanked targets will pick you to get those faction mods on the killmail. But skills?

I have about 33 million SP right now. I can fly every T2 subcap except marauders, interdictors, and heavy interdictors. I can fly every flavor of T3 and have skills for 2/3 T2 large turret systems. I've cross-trained to use several T2 missiles as well. I have near-perfect shield AND armor tanking skills, both active and passive. I can scan, hack, and salvage with the best of them. I can also fly a hulk and have basic manufacturing skills.

A hulk pilot shouldn't be flying a hulk without basic fitting and defensive skills. If you're putting a 50M character in a hulk and CAN'T fit a basic tank, you deserve to lose that ship.


But...but..but... why should I train fitting skills that don't improve my yield?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#99 - 2012-06-12 14:02:43 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
But...but..but... why should I train fitting skills that don't improve my yield?

Because YARRRRRR

Yield when ganked: 0

Yield when not ganked: >0

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Bossy Lady
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#100 - 2012-06-12 14:09:07 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
[Hulk, New Setup 2]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Damage Control II

Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Dread Guristas Thermic Dissipation Field

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


Mining Drone II x5


37k ehp against blasters but hey I guess 15% more yield is more important than surviving because CCP will make hisec safer for you right?


Expensive, couldn't fly it in a 50M SP industry alt I selected when I imported it in EFT (so it's also very SP demanding), requires +4% CPU even with all skills to V, actual tank is 32k. I prefer Rubyporto's fits by a large margin.


It's not that "SP-demanding". I mean god forbid people who complain about the Hulk's tank be expected to train up shield tanking. Or that people who whine about how their hulk costs 300M yet they can't afford a PG implant or a Navy MAPC.Roll (Or you can lose a few EHP and change one of the CDFEs to an ACR.)

He said 37k EHp vs Blasters - Hulks have T2 Gallente resists. That fit has 32k EHP vs omni damage. (Gang bonuses can add a fair bit on that, with a Warfare Link Tengu raising it to around 38k omni, if memory serves.)

EHP vs Blasters is relevent because Catalysts are the go-to cheap gank ship. Once you're past the threshold of dying to a single Cat, then you're in "specific target" territory; you'll only lose you Hulk if a gang decide to specifically target you rather than killing 2-3 other guys for the same effort.

EHP vs RF EMP Large is the next threshold; once you can survive 2 Tornado volleys, then you can make it uneconomic to gank you under any circumstances. The fit above will do that. That's the point of it.

Posting on this character because apparently some people get upset when they're asked difficult questions. M.