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Lack of respect for customers.

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ModeratedToSilence
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#81 - 2012-06-02 23:15:30 UTC  |  Edited by: ModeratedToSilence
Cutter Isaacson wrote:


And the idea that any GM, senior or otherwise, would take umbrage over a players knowledge of the game is so utterly fantastic that I have to wonder if you engaged the services of Dr Seuss to write that sentence. Dev's and GM's have access to information far beyond anything that any player could hope to have, and anyone with even a shred of intelligence would see the idiocy of your statement.



History goes against this - with the release of almost every patch.


Dominion Sov Bugs, UI Inventory Bugs, POS Mechanics Bugs, System Upgrade Bugs, Wormhole attribute Bugs, Concord Evasion Bugs etc etc
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#82 - 2012-06-02 23:22:59 UTC
ModeratedToSilence wrote:
Cutter Isaacson wrote:


And the idea that any GM, senior or otherwise, would take umbrage over a players knowledge of the game is so utterly fantastic that I have to wonder if you engaged the services of Dr Seuss to write that sentence. Dev's and GM's have access to information far beyond anything that any player could hope to have, and anyone with even a shred of intelligence would see the idiocy of your statement.



History goes against this - with the release of almost every patch.



So you are saying that GM's and Dev's, with their immediate access to the entire staff of CCP and the entire history of the game, have less knowledge than the players? Is that what you are saying?

And for your information, history shows that whenever a player has come to these forums complaining that a GM or Dev has persecuted them, it has later been proven beyond doubt that said player was in fact talking from their rear end. Ask any forum dweller who has been here a significant amount of time. In fact, so often have these players been found lying that it has become a running joke.

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#83 - 2012-06-02 23:25:40 UTC
ModeratedToSilence wrote:
Cutter Isaacson wrote:


And the idea that any GM, senior or otherwise, would take umbrage over a players knowledge of the game is so utterly fantastic that I have to wonder if you engaged the services of Dr Seuss to write that sentence. Dev's and GM's have access to information far beyond anything that any player could hope to have, and anyone with even a shred of intelligence would see the idiocy of your statement.



History goes against this - with the release of almost every patch.

Hell, even this is just basic tech support. Never EVER act like the customer might know more than you, or you just lost control of the entire thing and the experience will be horrible, and the backlash against support that doesn't know what they are doing is worse than the backlash against support that is rude.

Ofc, in a purely text based environment, its easy to avoid both, your customer doesn't know you are asking you boss for help anyway.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
ModeratedToSilence
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#84 - 2012-06-02 23:28:49 UTC
Cutter Isaacson wrote:


So you are saying that GM's and Dev's, with their immediate access to the entire staff of CCP and the entire history of the game, have less knowledge than the players? Is that what you are saying?

And for your information, history shows that whenever a player has come to these forums complaining that a GM or Dev has persecuted them, it has later been proven beyond doubt that said player was in fact talking from their rear end. Ask any forum dweller who has been here a significant amount of time. In fact, so often have these players been found lying that it has become a running joke.


I edited my post above. The GMs do a good job however Eve Online is one of the most detailed and complex games that exist. No individual player can know all there is to game play mechanics, however players that are involved 4-5 hours a day in a single sphere of the game often know the effects of the specific changes better than GMs and Devs. That is a fundamental argument put forward by CCP themselves about the use of the CSM.

Also note like any company employing 400+ staff when new bug/exploit is discovered by a player and reported it is not going to be known by everyone in that department let alone the entire company in 24 hours.
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#85 - 2012-06-02 23:48:32 UTC
ModeratedToSilence wrote:
Cutter Isaacson wrote:


So you are saying that GM's and Dev's, with their immediate access to the entire staff of CCP and the entire history of the game, have less knowledge than the players? Is that what you are saying?

And for your information, history shows that whenever a player has come to these forums complaining that a GM or Dev has persecuted them, it has later been proven beyond doubt that said player was in fact talking from their rear end. Ask any forum dweller who has been here a significant amount of time. In fact, so often have these players been found lying that it has become a running joke.


I edited my post above. The GMs do a good job however Eve Online is one of the most detailed and complex games that exist. No individual player can know all there is to game play mechanics, however players that are involved 4-5 hours a day in a single sphere of the game often know the effects of the specific changes better than GMs and Devs. That is a fundamental argument put forward by CCP themselves about the use of the CSM.

Also note like any company employing 400+ staff when new bug/exploit is discovered by a player and reported it is not going to be known by everyone in that department let alone the entire company in 24 hours.



I appreciate the clarification, but my point about the kind of player who suggests that they are the victim of a jealous GM or Dev still stands. If a player with advanced knowledge of a small section of the game were to file a polite and respectful petition, and the GM or Dev handling that petition lacked the required knowledge to resolve said petition, the player would have two immediate options, as I laid out in my previous post.

They can either ignore the issue and carry on, or they can escalate it. Now, if the player is "normal" they will already understand exactly the situation that you have outlined and will react accordingly, by escalating the petition to a Senior GM who should be able to directly question the team responsible for that area of the game. Now from personal experience in this area, the Senior GM will inform the player that additional time will be required to ascertain the extent of the issue, and a "normal" player will accept that and wait.

What the majority of people here are discussing are those players who, like the OP, are clearly not capable of waiting or of understanding the complexity that sometimes comes as part of the petitioning system. They may understand that they have more knowledge of a specific set of details inherent to a tiny portion of the game than the random GM who has answered their petition, but rather than follow the course of action taken by a "normal" player, they will go on an ego based rampage.

This then leads them here, where they defame and decry the GM's as being egotistical, lacking in intelligence and that they harbour a personal grudge against that particular player because "I'm smarter than they are". This type of player knows full well that information dissemination takes time, but they choose to ignore that fact and instead go on some kind of moral crusade to highlight the supposedly narcissistic and jealous GM. It is at this point that they fall foul of the truth, and end up being ridiculed on the forums, and rightly so.

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#86 - 2012-06-02 23:55:15 UTC
It's sad times when a company are willing to openly laugh and call their players "Pathetic" on their public forums. Don't believe for a second that CCP care about you or your measly subscription. As long as morons are willing to pay for the game in numbers they don't care about individuals.

Look at the Jita riots and unsubs over the diabolical forced Aurum market and walking in stations beta where they backpedalled massively due to unsubs as inspiration.

Unless you see dissent on that level, CCP dont care. They have proven time after time that they simply dont give a crap.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#87 - 2012-06-02 23:59:07 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
It's sad times when a company are willing to openly laugh and call their players "Pathetic" on their public forums. Don't believe for a second that CCP care about you or your measly subscription. As long as morons are willing to pay for the game in numbers they don't care about individuals.

Look at the Jita riots and unsubs over the diabolical forced Aurum market and walking in stations beta where they backpedalled massively due to unsubs as inspiration.

Unless you see dissent on that level, CCP dont care. They have proven time after time that they simply dont give a crap.


And yet you still come here, time after time. No one who really thought so badly of a company would stick around as long as you have, so either you are a twisted sad case, or you are talking bullshit and are just trolling. In either case your opinion is of little value.

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#88 - 2012-06-03 00:04:44 UTC
Yeah! CCP!!! Woo! *Blows airhorn*

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#89 - 2012-06-03 00:09:24 UTC
I dont have to think highly of the company to appreciate the good qualities of the game that remain. As long as I can continue to play for free and enjoy some solo pvp I will remain.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Ticarus Hellbrandt
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#90 - 2012-06-03 00:10:48 UTC
OP: you cant start a sentance with 'And'.
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#91 - 2012-06-03 00:20:18 UTC
Ticarus Hellbrandt wrote:
OP: you cant start a sentance with 'And'.



You are incorrect. Starting a sentence with 'And' is perfectly acceptable and has been widely used by many writers over the last 800-900 years. It may offend your particular literary sensibilities, but that does not make it wrong. What IS wrong however, is everything that followed on from that first word.

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
Alia Gon'die
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
#92 - 2012-06-03 02:29:26 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
It's sad times when a company are willing to openly laugh and call their players "Pathetic" on their public forums. Don't believe for a second that CCP care about you or your measly subscription. As long as morons are willing to pay for the game in numbers they don't care about individuals.

Look at the Jita riots and unsubs over the diabolical forced Aurum market and walking in stations beta where they backpedalled massively due to unsubs as inspiration.

Unless you see dissent on that level, CCP dont care. They have proven time after time that they simply dont give a crap.


Still mad about the Alliance Tournament, huh?

Self-appointed forums hallway monitor Ask me about La Maison and what it means for you! http://bit.ly/LTW5gW These wardec rules are not in place for our protection. They're in place for yours.
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#93 - 2012-06-03 08:05:31 UTC
Confirming that as a pure soloer, I am deeply affected by the alliance tournament ten decisions.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Krota Hetei
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#94 - 2012-06-03 08:39:09 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
Confirming that as a pure soloer, I am deeply affected by the alliance tournament ten decisions.


Easy to be a "pure soloer" when you average four kills 4 kills in two months.

Shocker.. one of them was with someone else.

What's that brown stuff coming from your mouth? Smells rank.
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#95 - 2012-06-03 08:42:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Spank
Apologies for not playing eve online 24/7 since 2006 and 'allowing' other online players to interfere in my MMO activities.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Krota Hetei
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#96 - 2012-06-03 08:47:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Krota Hetei
Lady Spank wrote:
Apologies for not playing eve online 24/7 since 2006 and 'allowing' other online players to interfere in my MMO activities.


6 years out of the game and still hanging about the forums?

So aside from reading patch notes, how do you really know and why do you even care what's going on?

Just leave mate, you'd miss the forums more than anyone would miss you.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#97 - 2012-06-03 08:51:06 UTC
Krota Hetei wrote:
Lady Spank wrote:
Confirming that as a pure soloer, I am deeply affected by the alliance tournament ten decisions.


Easy to be a "pure soloer" when you average four kills 4 kills in two months.

Shocker.. one of them was with someone else.

What's that brown stuff coming from your mouth? Smells rank.


Count of kills does not tell anything. Some of us prefer quality over masses.
Personally i stopped pvping because it is mostly just farming newcomers, there is not much fun on it, it start to feel like grinding. I still play eve on some forms and i still feel that it is worth pay without pvp or pve.
Frying Doom
#98 - 2012-06-03 08:57:29 UTC
Well at least this answers one thing.

People are always asking why CCP takes so long to make any real changes and why there hasn't been much new content lately or for that matter why there are still bugs in the game.

Given the figures shown on the number of petitions around it pretty simple.

All the money is going on hiring staff to answer whiny petitions on crap.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#99 - 2012-06-03 21:04:13 UTC
Krota Hetei wrote:
Lady Spank wrote:
Apologies for not playing eve online 24/7 since 2006 and 'allowing' other online players to interfere in my MMO activities.


6 years out of the game and still hanging about the forums?

So aside from reading patch notes, how do you really know and why do you even care what's going on?

Just leave mate, you'd miss the forums more than anyone would miss you.


Krota Hetei
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
Likes received: 0

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Krota Hetei
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#100 - 2012-06-05 12:45:50 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
Krota Hetei wrote:
Lady Spank wrote:
Apologies for not playing eve online 24/7 since 2006 and 'allowing' other online players to interfere in my MMO activities.


6 years out of the game and still hanging about the forums?

So aside from reading patch notes, how do you really know and why do you even care what's going on?

Just leave mate, you'd miss the forums more than anyone would miss you.


Krota Hetei
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
Likes received: 0



Because all of that matters, why?

6 years and still trolling the forums, caring about likes.

No point listing your alliance, since your apparently a solo player.