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Malcorian Vandsteidt
Alpha Trades
Solyaris Chtonium
#121 - 2012-06-01 21:43:28 UTC
1. Everything except fireing your gun at another PvPer is Industry or PvE. And PVE generally ties into some sort of industry.

You could play EvE just fine if there was no pvp allowed anywhere.
You could not play EvE if there was no industry as you would have no ships, no ammo, no anything. (And if you don't already know this.... then you don't need to be posting.)

2. I could tech 1 fit my drake and still rock your noob ship. it wouldn't even dent my shield.

3. Passive and active hardners and boosters repers can fix the issues of the alpha gank from "SOME" ships. However most pilots can not afford the billions of isk required to fit such fits, and asking them to is well, ridiculous when such a fitting while protecting them from say a destroyer, wont do jack squat against a Smartbomb BS ganker or a 5k - 15k Alpha volley from say a BC or BS.

So your supposition is severely flawed.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#122 - 2012-06-01 21:54:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:
Everything except fireing your gun at another PvPer is Industry or PvE. And PVE generally ties into some sort of industry.
Lol No.

Everything other than clicking the “accept mission” and “complete mission” is a form of PvP (maybe the “abandon mission” could qualify as well, but that usually happens as a result of PvP).

Quote:
You could play EvE just fine if there was no pvp allowed anywhere.
No, you couldn't, because there would be no industry and no market, because there would be no demand for anything (not to mention that there would be no industry or market for the simple reason that “no PvP” would remove them as well since they are PvP activities). You can already play this version of EVE, by the way… it's called “Singularity”. Go there and see how fun it is.

Quote:
I could tech 1 fit my drake and still rock your noob ship.
So that point completely went over your head. Roll
I'm shocked and surprised.

Quote:
Passive and active hardners and boosters repers can fix the issues of the alpha gank from "SOME" ships. However most pilots can not afford the billions of isk required to fit such fits, and asking them to is well, ridiculous when such a fitting while protecting them from say a destroyer, wont do jack squat against a Smartbomb BS ganker or a 5k - 15k Alpha volley from say a BC or BS.
What on earth are you talking about? Ugh

For the record, it's quite easy to give, say, a Hulk protection enough to survive an alpha-based BS or BC (and surviving a smartbomb BS is ridiculously easy since they do so little damage).
Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#123 - 2012-06-01 21:59:00 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Nope it's yours


Not empty quoting.

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com
Virgil Travis
Non Constructive Self Management
#124 - 2012-06-01 22:03:16 UTC
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:
1. Everything except fireing your gun at another PvPer is Industry or PvE. And PVE generally ties into some sort of industry.

You could play EvE just fine if there was no pvp allowed anywhere.
You could not play EvE if there was no industry as you would have no ships, no ammo, no anything. (And if you don't already know this.... then you don't need to be posting.)

2. I could tech 1 fit my drake and still rock your noob ship. it wouldn't even dent my shield.

3. Passive and active hardners and boosters repers can fix the issues of the alpha gank from "SOME" ships. However most pilots can not afford the billions of isk required to fit such fits, and asking them to is well, ridiculous when such a fitting while protecting them from say a destroyer, wont do jack squat against a Smartbomb BS ganker or a 5k - 15k Alpha volley from say a BC or BS.

So your supposition is severely flawed.


I think it's your supposition about the whole game that is severely flawed if that's how you think EVE works.

Industry is PVP as you're competing with other industrialists, the market is PVP as you're competing to get the best price against competition. And without the actual destructive aspects of PVP there would be no market, industry or need to earn isk as nothing would ever need to be bought as it would never be destroyed.

Everything is wrong.

Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims.
Malcorian Vandsteidt
Alpha Trades
Solyaris Chtonium
#125 - 2012-06-01 22:04:40 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:
Everything except fireing your gun at another PvPer is Industry or PvE. And PVE generally ties into some sort of industry.
Lol No.

Everything other than clicking the “accept mission” and “complete mission” is a form of PvP (maybe the “abandon mission” could qualify as well, but that usually happens as a result of PvP).

Quote:
You could play EvE just fine if there was no pvp allowed anywhere.
No, you couldn't, because there would be no industry and no market, because there would be no demand for anything (not to mention that there would be no industry or market for the simple reason that “no PvP” would remove them as well since they are PvP activities). You can already play this version of EVE, by the way… it's called “Singularity”. Go there and see how fun it is.

Quote:
I could tech 1 fit my drake and still rock your noob ship.
So that point completely went over your head. Roll
I'm shocked and surprised.

Quote:
Passive and active hardners and boosters repers can fix the issues of the alpha gank from "SOME" ships. However most pilots can not afford the billions of isk required to fit such fits, and asking them to is well, ridiculous when such a fitting while protecting them from say a destroyer, wont do jack squat against a Smartbomb BS ganker or a 5k - 15k Alpha volley from say a BC or BS.
What on earth are you talking about? Ugh

For the record, it's quite easy to give, say, a Hulk protection enough to survive an alpha-based BS or BC (and surviving a smartbomb BS is ridiculously easy since they do so little damage).


1. Your trolling on this reply. PvP is PLAYER vs PLAYER. Everything except "PLAYER combat ya know where you gank or fight another player Hence the PLAYER VS PLAYER" is PVE/Industry.

2. Wrong, you could use ships on missions, Incursions, WH's, all kinds of things. EvE would be just fine without pvp. Different yes, maybe not as popular, but it would still be around and still 100% functional.

3. You stated your noob ship could defeat a Billion isk fit BS, I offered you an easy ech 1 fitting and apparently you KNOW for a fact that a noob ship can't beat "even" that, so how does your example have any weight? It doesn't.

4. You obviously don't know how to fit a gank Smartbomb BS because they do about 25k + damage over the 10-15 seconds it takes concord to kill you, when set up right and will kill fully tanked out and fit Fleets of Macks and hulks and sometimes the orca itself ..I know because I have done it in both 0.0 and Highsec, and ALL of the ships I killed with it were fit with Nice shiny tanks.


Guess what? it didin't help them.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#126 - 2012-06-01 22:06:10 UTC
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:

You could play EvE just fine if there was no pvp allowed anywhere.


They did something similar in SWG. Industry vanished within 2 weeks and never recovered.
Malcorian Vandsteidt
Alpha Trades
Solyaris Chtonium
#127 - 2012-06-01 22:17:28 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:

You could play EvE just fine if there was no pvp allowed anywhere.


They did something similar in SWG. Industry vanished within 2 weeks and never recovered.


I remember that restriction, but that wasn't due to the change in pvp that was due to the overall game changes from the NGE and SONY. But yea Im sure if they took pvp out of EvE at least 50% of the population would leave, but hey, EvE would still march on just like SWG is still Marching on. (And still has people playing it).
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#128 - 2012-06-01 22:24:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:
PvP is PLAYER vs PLAYER.
Exactly.
The market is a PLAYER competing vs. other PLAYERs to acquire the most goods for the lowest price and sell them at the highest price.
Industry is a PLAYER competing vs. other PLAYERs to get the most goods to the (player vs. player) market at the lowest production cost.
Mining is a PLAYER competing vs. other PLAYERs for the ore in the belts to use in (player vs. player) industry or just sell on the (player vs. player) market.
Exploration is a PLAYER competing vs. other PLAYERs to be the first to find and finish the site and get the goods to the (player vs. player) market.

Even missions include PvP elements since, while it's flagged as yours by default, the loot is available to everyone so you, a PLAYER, has to compete vs. other PLAYERs to get that loot and either reprocess it for use in (player vs. player) industry or sell on the (player vs. player) market. Salvage is just straight up PvP competition to get the goods first, again for (PvP) industry or (PvP) market use.

Everything in EVE is PvP, and everything in EVE relies on PvP to work. The market and the industry, in particular, rely on PvP combat and the losses it generates to create a demand — without those losses, there would be no need for industry, and there would be no reason to use the market because there would be nothing to sell (or buy).

Quote:
Wrong, you could use ships on missions, Incursions, WH's, all kinds of things.
There would be no ships, because there wouldn't be any reason to produce them. There would be no point in running mission because there would be nothing to spend the ISK on. There would be no point in running incursions or going into WHs because none of the stuff you got would be of any use. Without PvP, EVE would be completely devoid of all activities that makes EVE work.

Again, if you want to see it, go to Singularity and play. See how interesting it is (especially the parts you just mentioned).

Quote:
You stated your noob ship could defeat a Billion isk fit BS
No. I said that a noob ship should be able to defeat a billion-ISK ship if flown correctly. Read what is written and stop assuming things.

Quote:
You obviously don't know how to fit a gank Smartbomb BS because they do about 25k + damage over the 10-15 seconds it takes concord to kill you
Lol No. A full rack of smartbombs will do just over 300 DPS. Over 10–15 seconds, this comes out as 3,000–4,500 damage total (in a very small and easily avoidable radius). Now, if you have some better way of fitting a smartbomb BS than filling all the highslots with smartbombs, I'd be very happy to hear it. Oh, and even if your damage output number was true, it would still be silly easy to survive.
Malcorian Vandsteidt
Alpha Trades
Solyaris Chtonium
#129 - 2012-06-01 22:28:11 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:
PvP is PLAYER vs PLAYER.
Exactly.
The market is a PLAYER competing vs. other PLAYERs to acquire the most goods for the lowest price and sell them at the highest price.
Industry is a PLAYER competing vs. other PLAYERs to get the most goods to the (player vs. player) market at the lowest production cost.
Mining is a PLAYER competing vs. other PLAYERs for the ore in the belts to use in (player vs. player) industry or just sell on the (player vs. player) market.
Exploration is a PLAYER competing vs. other PLAYERs to be the first to find and finish the site and get the goods to the (player vs. player) market.

Even missions include PvP elements since, while it's flagged as yours by default, the loot is available to everyone so you, a PLAYER, has to compete vs. other PLAYERs to get that loot and either reprocess it for use in (player vs. player) industry or sell on the (player vs. player) market. Salvage is just straight up PvP competition to get the goods first, again for (PvP) industry or (PvP) market use.

Quote:
Wrong, you could use ships on missions, Incursions, WH's, all kinds of things.
There would be no ships, because there wouldn't be any reason to produce them. There would be no point in running mission because there would be nothing to spend the ISK on. There would be no point in running incursions or going into WHs because none of the stuff you got would be of any use. Without PvP, EVE would be completely devoid of all activities that makes EVE work.

Again, if you want to see it, go to Singularity and play. See how interesting it is (especially the parts you just mentioned).

Quote:
You stated your noob ship could defeat a Billion isk fit BS
No. I said that a noob ship should be able to defeat a billion-ISK ship if flown correctly. Read what is written and stop assuming things.

Quote:
You obviously don't know how to fit a gank Smartbomb BS because they do about 25k + damage over the 10-15 seconds it takes concord to kill you
Lol No. A full rack of smartbombs will do just over 300 DPS. Over 10–15 seconds, this comes out as 3,000–4,500 damage total (in a very small and easily avoidable radius). Now, if you have some better way of fitting a smartbomb BS than filling all the highslots with smartbombs, I'd be very happy to hear it. Oh, and even if your damage output number was true, it would still be silly easy to survive.


You all are assuming the average player can afford billion isk fits. I hate to inform you that 99% of eve are not billionaires. And most of the ones your saying should fit their ships better probably can't fit them because their ship took all their ISK. Because they can't make a profit with people ganking them constantly.

Not every one is rich like me, you or whoever. Most aren't in fact. So while if we flew a hulk or a mack or whatever we'd probably trick them out with neut go into lowsec and kill gankers... Not everyone has the skills, the desire, or the ISK to do it.
Price Check Aisle3
#130 - 2012-06-01 22:31:37 UTC
My god, Tippia, you have the patience of a saint...
  • Karl Hobb IATS
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#131 - 2012-06-01 22:31:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:
You all are assuming the average player can afford billion isk fits.
No. No-one is assuming that. Where on earth did you get that from?

Quote:
So while if we flew a hulk or a mack or whatever we'd probably trick them out with neut go into lowsec and kill gankers... Not everyone has the skills, the desire, or the ISK to do it.
What the hell are you on about now? Ugh
What does that have to do with anything?

By the way, last we saw any numbers on it (many years ago), roughly 20% of the EVE population had more than a billion in their wallets… it hasn't gone down since then.
Cameron Cahill
Deaths Consortium
Pandemic Horde
#132 - 2012-06-01 22:33:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Cameron Cahill
Sure fine my gank alts all you like enjoy the 6.78 isk they have in their combined wallets :)
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#133 - 2012-06-01 22:33:56 UTC
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:

You could play EvE just fine if there was no pvp allowed anywhere.


They did something similar in SWG. Industry vanished within 2 weeks and never recovered.


I remember that restriction, but that wasn't due to the change in pvp that was due to the overall game changes from the NGE and SONY. But yea Im sure if they took pvp out of EvE at least 50% of the population would leave, but hey, EvE would still march on just like SWG is still Marching on. (And still has people playing it).


It was the removal of decay. What you said would result in the exact same slump in demand and thus, a total collapse of industry.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#134 - 2012-06-01 22:39:54 UTC
Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:
1. Your trolling on this reply. PvP is PLAYER vs PLAYER. Everything except "PLAYER combat ya know where you gank or fight another player Hence the PLAYER VS PLAYER" is PVE/Industry.


If you believe that the market is not a PvP activity, you really need to check your assumptions about the game. Industry is PvP too: what's the point of manufacturing something if you're not either going to use it or sell it? If you use it, you've denied someone a sale. If you sell it, you're competing with someone else to make that sale.

PvP is not exclusively spaceships shooting at each other.

Malcorian Vandsteidt wrote:
3. You stated your noob ship could defeat a Billion isk fit BS, I offered you an easy ech 1 fitting and apparently you KNOW for a fact that a noob ship can't beat "even" that, so how does your example have any weight? It doesn't.


A rookie ship can beat a billion ISK BS. A heavy missile platform can beat a rookie ship. Welcome to EVE, where every ship has a counter (well, except for chain logistics super carriers). The trick is to pick the super Velator to take out the turret-based battleship, and don't go near missile boats with that same Velator.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Frank Martin Statham
Periculum Kismet
#135 - 2012-06-01 23:12:28 UTC
Fun Fix -

Make one system PVP-less with several belts. It would be so heavily contested for every rock the miners would be begging to shoot each other. Then this thread could read "It is CCPs responsibility to allow me to shoot these #@%*ers mining my rocks!"
The Groundskeeper
State War Academy
Caldari State
#136 - 2012-06-01 23:14:46 UTC
These are great days we're living, bros. We are jolly goon giants, walking Eve with guns. These people we wasted here today are the most pitiful human beings we will ever know. After we rotate back to the world, we're gonna miss not having anyone around that's worth griefing.
The Groundskeeper
State War Academy
Caldari State
#137 - 2012-06-01 23:15:11 UTC
Just kidding there is a huge newbie hose of clueless chucklefucks worth griefing.
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#138 - 2012-06-02 02:34:02 UTC
MetaMorpheus Jones wrote:
...


join a real corp and get your corpies to help defend you. eve is harsh, but it's a lot harsher solo. after 1 month, you're not ready for that... in any sec.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

  • Qolde
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#139 - 2012-06-02 02:48:54 UTC
Better Option, go abck to the old days when there was NO highsec, thene every player will have to join a player corporation, and if basic minerals (including tritanium) were scarcer and spread more haphazardly over the geenral map, and concentrated in fewer locations, more alliances would then be forced to uphold not only a trading arm to receive resources from alliances who ahev waht they not, tehy woudl need to also focus heavily on self-defense in order to protect their industry, as no high sec means fewer industrial safezones.


yes for a long while eve would be rickety, but in the end EvE would either become what it was supposed to be (a game where everything requires a player somewhere to do something to make it ahppen) or we'll fidn out that a true sandbox is impossible and eve will collapse due to no players.
Le Dei Opus
Doomheim
#140 - 2012-06-02 03:19:43 UTC
MetaMorpheus Jones wrote:
s the real-est emotion I have ever had in a video game. I'm hooked.

I will also say that I have no sympathy for a miner that goes out with no tank, low or hisec



There is a prize for you here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=116399