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When does all the ganking make mining worth it?
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YipKai Foon
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2012-06-01 00:09:18 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Cyprus Amaro wrote:
Would you explain the logic train that led you to this conclusion? How are hi-sec miners "worthless parasites" to EVE? I'm relatively new, but I thought that mining has always been an integral part of EVE since its inception.


Miners in general are a useful part of EVE, but they are supposed to be mining in lowsec/0.0. Unfortunately the easy money of highsec, combined with mining bots, drives mineral prices down and kills the appeal of mining outside highsec for the few people who might otherwise make good money there.


Where exactly is this rule defined...?
Seems like someone doesn't understand how to make a profit from this game and even worse, doesn't understand the term "sandbox"... Blink
Jayrendo Karr
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-06-01 00:13:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Jayrendo Karr
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Cyprus Amaro wrote:
Would you explain the logic train that led you to this conclusion? How are hi-sec miners "worthless parasites" to EVE? I'm relatively new, but I thought that mining has always been an integral part of EVE since its inception.


Highsec miners (and other highsec carebears) are worthless parasites because they wreck the risk/reward balance by making veteran-level income in what is supposed to be the tutorial area, and then whining and crying and demanding nerfs every time someone threatens their ability to carebear AFK with 100% safety.

Miners in general are a useful part of EVE, but they are supposed to be mining in lowsec/0.0. Unfortunately the easy money of highsec, combined with mining bots, drives mineral prices down and kills the appeal of mining outside highsec for the few people who might otherwise make good money there.

End result: lazy and stupid people get rich at the expense of the overall health of the game. I think that's a pretty good definition of "worthless parasite".

The abundance of veldspar in highsec and extreme need for minerals from low end ores dictates the extreme need for large quantities of tritanium, pyrite, and mexallon all of which are found in large quantities in highsec and in low quantities in other places, morphite may be most valuable per unit but the demand is much much less than veldspar. A feasable solution would be to decrease the trit cost of items and increase noxicum, isogen, and other lowsec/nullsec mins. Don't blame the bear for finding the honey thats easiest to reach.
Aramatheia
Tiffany and Co.
#23 - 2012-06-01 00:18:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Aramatheia
James 315 wrote:
Tenchi Sal wrote:
im pretty sure most miners are quitting not over pvp but how ****** the community of EVE is becomming. look at all the rage/hate towards them, they are blamed for every last thing thats bad in EVE online. i been playing mmos since 1999, dont ever remember seeing a group of players so blatantly "hated on" more then EVE miners.

The question isn't how the level of hatred toward the highsec miners compares to other levels of hatred in other MMOs. The question is whether the hatred toward highsec miners is justified or not. Given the history of what the highsec miners have done and are currently trying to do, obviously the hatred is justified.


i participate in a ship building operation, hence i mine. Should there be less ships entering the game? whats people going to fly if thier ships blow up and theres no ship builders replacing the losses?

Also, high sec ores arent the mother load of hyper wealth. kernite is best in belts, have to scan down rare sites for that omber stuff. its veld scordite and pyroxeres pretty much. Nothing hyper ungodly amazing there.

happy hunting

Quote:
The abundance of veldspar in highsec and extreme need for minerals from low end minerals dictates the extreme need for large quantities of tritanium, pyrite, and mexallon all of which are found in large quantities in highsec and in low quantities in other places, morphite may be most valuable per unit but the demand is much much less than veldspar. A feasable solution would be to decrease the trit cost of items and increase noxicum, isogen, and other lowsec/nullsec mins. Don't blame the bear for finding the honey thats easiest to reach.


just saw this post lol. Why cant they tweak either belt composition in low/null to have a few HUGE rocks of these lower ores (like 2-3 rocks of each with 200k quantity) or give the high value rare ores the ability to refine into everything. They'd be much more oooh aaah if you refined them up and got a ton of everything
James 315
Experimental Fun Times Corp RELOADED
CODE.
#24 - 2012-06-01 00:24:08 UTC
Aramatheia wrote:
i participate in a ship building operation, hence i mine. Should there be less ships entering the game? whats people going to fly if thier ships blow up and theres no ship builders replacing the losses?

Mining and ship production can be handled by those in nullsec or even lowsec. Highsec miners have absolutely nothing to offer. If fewer ships entered the game as a result of carebears' destruction, who cares? I sure don't.

MinerBumping.com
Ituhata Saken
Killboard Padding Services
#25 - 2012-06-01 00:33:18 UTC
James 315 wrote:

Mining and ship production can be handled by those in nullsec or even lowsec. Highsec miners have absolutely nothing to offer. If fewer ships entered the game as a result of carebears' destruction, who cares? I sure don't.


So why aren't they? Surely with jump freighters and nulsec mining operations you should have no problems getting what you need.

So close...
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-06-01 00:34:44 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:
The bad: mining sucks. It's boring as hell, it doesn't pay much (yet), and is generally the fastest way to get bored and quit EVE unless you're a bot.

The good: endless ganking of mining barges and carebears who are too stupid to figure out how to avoid being ganked and/or too lazy to make even the most basic attempts to protect themselves. When these worthless parasites on the game finally ragequit, mineral prices will increase and mining will become a much more profitable activity.

So, the question: when will enough carebears ragequit to get the ISK/hour for mining to a point that the profit justifies the endless misery of mining? At what point will even the most dedicated griefers and pirates find themselves training Mining Barge V?


Mining may suck for you but obviously it doesn't for others.
I have come to the conclusion that the biggest problem with mining is that nobody understands them.
When people don't understand something, they get aggravated and mad.
And when they get mad that want to lash out at what made them mad.
Kind of funny that the thing that gets to a PvP'r the most is a carebear miner.



EVERYBODY KNOWS
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#27 - 2012-06-01 00:35:07 UTC
James 315 wrote:
Mining and ship production can be handled by those in nullsec or even lowsec. Highsec miners have absolutely nothing to offer. If fewer ships entered the game as a result of carebears' destruction, who cares? I sure don't.


This.

The solution to highsec mining is to move ALL significant mineral resources into lowsec and/or 0.0, leaving highsec with nothing significant enough to allow any ship larger than a T1-fitted mining cruiser to make decent income. The mineral supply remains the same, except now if you want zero risk you also get zero reward.
Mcpewy
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2012-06-01 00:39:13 UTC
Yeah we should make 2 month old characters automatically when they log in pop a box up that says you must move to low sec or null please choose a station. Make all accounts move out of high sec and bann from docking if over 2 months while in high sec. We can get rid of some t2 bpos that way so you cant hide em in high sec. Then ban like they did with carriers all freighters from high sec. Hell take away high sec so null sec can't use it with neutral alts to move stuff from jita.
Wilma Lawson
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2012-06-01 00:41:25 UTC
James 315 wrote:

The question isn't how the level of hatred toward the highsec miners compares to other levels of hatred in other MMOs. The question is whether the hatred toward highsec miners is justified or not. Given the history of what the highsec miners have done and are currently trying to do, obviously the hatred is justified.

Yes James, you are doing as you are told. Brilliant! Keep up the good work.
I own you! I control you!
Wilma Lawson
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2012-06-01 00:42:10 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:
James 315 wrote:
Mining and ship production can be handled by those in nullsec or even lowsec. Highsec miners have absolutely nothing to offer. If fewer ships entered the game as a result of carebears' destruction, who cares? I sure don't.


This.

The solution to highsec mining is to move ALL significant mineral resources into lowsec and/or 0.0, leaving highsec with nothing significant enough to allow any ship larger than a T1-fitted mining cruiser to make decent income. The mineral supply remains the same, except now if you want zero risk you also get zero reward.

Yes. I control you too! Yes, control of all resources. Yes. That's the goal. Support James. Become my puppet too.
Wilma Lawson
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2012-06-01 00:42:46 UTC
Mcpewy wrote:
Yeah we should make 2 month old characters automatically when they log in pop a box up that says you must move to low sec or null please choose a station. Make all accounts move out of high sec and bann from docking if over 2 months while in high sec. We can get rid of some t2 bpos that way so you cant hide em in high sec. Then ban like they did with carriers all freighters from high sec. Hell take away high sec so null sec can't use it with neutral alts to move stuff from jita.

Yes. You are mine too. I love to control people. I love to control them when they think they are not being controlled.
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#32 - 2012-06-01 00:59:14 UTC
Mcpewy wrote:
Yeah we should make 2 month old characters automatically when they log in pop a box up that says you must move to low sec or null please choose a station. Make all accounts move out of high sec and bann from docking if over 2 months while in high sec. We can get rid of some t2 bpos that way so you cant hide em in high sec. Then ban like they did with carriers all freighters from high sec. Hell take away high sec so null sec can't use it with neutral alts to move stuff from jita.


Sorry, but that's just bull****. I'm not saying that you shouldn't be able to play in highsec if you choose. If you want to play the game with a high level of safety, feel free to stay in highsec for your entire time in EVE. Taking the low risk, low reward path is a perfectly valid gameplay choice, and I do not in any way think that you should be forced to accept a higher level of risk.

However, what I DO object to is highsec providing veteran-level income with near-zero risk, and highsec carebears whining and crying every time there's even the smallest threat to their AFK income.
Foder Enaka
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#33 - 2012-06-01 01:14:41 UTC
How is this a sandbox if other people tell me I have to move to low sec or null after 2 months? The way its going you can have your perfect pvp spaceship game with all 5000 people that you had back in 03. CCP will have 20 employees and good luck getting any new content or bugs fixed.
Andoria Thara
Fallen Avatars
#34 - 2012-06-01 01:15:54 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:

However, what I DO object to is highsec providing veteran-level income with near-zero risk, and highsec carebears whining and crying every time there's even the smallest threat to their AFK income.


So remove markets from highsec, since the market PvP'ers are the ones who make the real money. Highsec miners make maybe 20mil an hour, if that.
Ituhata Saken
Killboard Padding Services
#35 - 2012-06-01 01:16:13 UTC
I see the goalpost is moving in this thread.

So close...
Doctor Benway Kado
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#36 - 2012-06-01 01:18:50 UTC
Andoria Thara wrote:
Merin Ryskin wrote:

However, what I DO object to is highsec providing veteran-level income with near-zero risk, and highsec carebears whining and crying every time there's even the smallest threat to their AFK income.


So remove markets from highsec, since the market PvP'ers are the ones who make the real money. Highsec miners make maybe 20mil an hour, if that.

This is why we hate you, by the way.
Wilma Lawson
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2012-06-01 01:21:18 UTC
Doctor Benway Kado wrote:
So remove markets from highsec, since the market PvP'ers are the ones who make the real money. Highsec miners make maybe 20mil an hour, if that]
This is why we hate you, by the way.

We make more than that, fool! I already love How James315 has spread the hate to you too! You're so blind to it, you don't know what the real plan is. You, sir, are a tool. And there isn't much you can do about it. Enjoy your hatred while you can, because that's all you'll have in the end!
Andoria Thara
Fallen Avatars
#38 - 2012-06-01 01:21:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Andoria Thara
Doctor Benway Kado wrote:

This is why we hate you, by the way.


Why's that? Because I countered someone saying remove all mining from highsec with remove all markets from highsec?

It makes just about as much sense. /shrugs

I'm not saying to change the game, I was just making a point.
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#39 - 2012-06-01 01:24:32 UTC
Ituhata Saken wrote:
I see the goalpost is moving in this thread.


Game, set, and match.
Doctor Benway Kado
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#40 - 2012-06-01 01:25:10 UTC
Andoria Thara wrote:
Doctor Benway Kado wrote:

This is why we hate you, by the way.


Why's that? Because I countered someone saying remove all mining from highsec with remove all markets from highsec?

Because you make "only" 20 million an hour, AFK mining, in the most secure and least risky part of space - and then still complain.

And don't claim that mining in highsec isn't safe. It isn't safe because we hate you.