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When does all the ganking make mining worth it?
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Ituhata
Killboard Padding Services
#221 - 2012-06-26 15:19:17 UTC
Aulx-Gao Ekanon wrote:
Lilan Kahn wrote:
stop using hulks and use covertors gank risk reduced by 98%


The ISK loss is reduced, but I'm not so sure the risk is any less. With fewer available Hulk targets the suicide gankers are hitting Covetors and Retrievers, both easier targets. (Just try tanking a Retriever. I dare ya. Blink)


You align tank that sucker.

Just dropping in to say mining appears to be profitable, as it is still occurring.
Lilan Kahn
The Littlest Hobos
The Whale Hunters Association
#222 - 2012-06-26 15:19:27 UTC
Oisin Sandovar wrote:
Lilan Kahn wrote:
Oisin Sandovar wrote:
Aulx-Gao Ekanon wrote:
Lilan Kahn wrote:
stop using hulks and use covertors gank risk reduced by 98%


The ISK loss is reduced, but I'm not so sure the risk is any less. With fewer available Hulk targets the suicide gankers are hitting Covetors and Retrievers, both easier targets. (Just try tanking a Retriever. I dare ya. Blink)

Already done.


yea and you need what 2 hours to cover the loss of a covertor?


But the risk isn't reduced by 98%, perhaps the cost of recovery. P


sure it is better money going for hulks than t1 go look up the blown up rates
Alaya Carrier
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#223 - 2012-06-26 16:16:38 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Victoria Sin wrote:
It's laughable to suggest high sec is more profitable for miners than null.


when scordite, pyrox, and veld are all worth more than crokite, it's not laughable at all.

wrong, but not laughable.


Well it's certainly not because veldspar, scordite and pyroxeres are exceptionally hard to dig.

They killed the miners, so the few left are not enough and prices rise sky high.

Next claim "hi sec minerals bring too much value, more than 0.0 minerals, NERF hi sec".

Nope if you did not kill the miners trit would be 4 isk pu, it's the very ones who find hi sec too much profitable that forcibly made hi sec prices rise just to find an excuse to nerf it more.


I have the Big Solution: mine veldspar in 0.0, so you can keep killing hi sec miners while keeping prices dirt low. Don't like mining at all or mining veldspar in 0.0? Then harden up and deal with it.
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
#224 - 2012-06-26 16:18:51 UTC
when they make the jump gates into null sec one way.

This space for rent.
RomeStar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#225 - 2012-06-26 16:24:21 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Tenchi Sal wrote:
im pretty sure most miners are quitting not over pvp but how ****** the community of EVE is becomming. look at all the rage/hate towards them, they are blamed for every last thing thats bad in EVE online. i been playing mmos since 1999, dont ever remember seeing a group of players so blatantly "hated on" more then EVE miners.


You know why they're blamed? Because highsec miners, just like other highsec carebears, are bad for the game.

Highsec is supposed to be the tutorial area, with the least risk but also the lowest rewards. There should be absolutely zero profit for veteran players in highsec. If you have the skills to fly a Hulk, you should be forced to move to lowsec or 0.0 to get any money. You should NOT be given a nice gank-free AFK income source like highsec miners demand.

Hulkageddon should be impossible for the simple reason that there are no Hulks in highsec, and therefore nothing to suicide gank besides a handful of tutorial players mining in their frigates.



U mad bro always wanted to say that . It actually just sounds like pure jealousy since high sec miners have found an income source and play the game how they want to play and you have yet tot find that niche.

If you cant beat them join them . Sub another account role a miner and proceed to make big isk hehe I am.

Signatured removed, CCP Phantom
Kyle Ward
Doomheim
#226 - 2012-06-26 16:57:37 UTC
Wow, someone should place an order for some industrial strength Vagisil, cause I don't think anything less will cure the --snip-- in this thread...

Mining's for chumps, real pvpr's plex with daddies credit card.

The Sandbox, you're playing it wrong!
Betrinna Cantis
#227 - 2012-06-26 16:58:56 UTC
nat longshot wrote:
ok my 2 cents.

First off ccp put belts in high sec for a reason to mine them. 2 its a open sand box and i for the life of me cant understand why low sec and 0.0 pilots think there way of playing is right.

If your way of playing is what you like fine great go for it but your play style might not be the play style for another person. That like you Drink coca-cola and i like DR. Pepper and i take away your coca-cola and shove my dr. pepper in your mouth and tell you in your face your worng and youll like it. You get really **** at me for that will that what garkers are doing in game. Get over yourself solo you anit nothing other then a sry pvper that can only kill unarmed ships.

i have been in low sec and 0.0 and will return at some point soon but untill i return ive made a home in hi sec but i dont mine. So in ending you think your play style is the right way to play eve will your partly right. It 's right for you not forevery one your not 100% right hell your not 20% i say over all 5% right 95% wrong.

even in eve i play buy one rule that is i enjoy the way i play and i dont push my play style on anyone because of the fact its right for me not anyone but me. kind of like the golden rule "do onto others have you'd have do onto you."

now iam done and i know the sh^^ storm likes to follow my posts so let it roll.



+1 I feel the need to add.... EVERYONE in 0.0 and low sec started in hi sec... EVERYONE.

Alts have been changed to protect the Innocent. You may have mistaken me for someone who cares.....
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#228 - 2012-06-26 17:02:56 UTC
The idea that high-sec miners are bad for the game is repeatedly trumpeted by various people but it's never really been proven. People have only made emotional comparisons to nonexistent "good old days" and blamed the miners for them not being there anymore.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Dave Stark
#229 - 2012-06-26 17:06:01 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
The idea that high-sec miners are bad for the game is repeatedly trumpeted by various people but it's never really been proven. People have only made emotional comparisons to nonexistent "good old days" and blamed the miners for them not being there anymore.



less high sec miners, less minerals, more expensive ships.

if ships become more expensive then people are less likely to spunk a battlecruiser up the wall in a fight and are more likely to want to get better so they aren't wasting "expensive ships"

that's the only real connection i can see, and even then it's flimsy as hell.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#230 - 2012-06-26 17:08:11 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
less high sec miners, less minerals, more expensive ships.

if ships become more expensive then people are less likely to spunk a battlecruiser up the wall in a fight and are more likely to want to get better so they aren't wasting "expensive ships"

that's the only real connection i can see, and even then it's flimsy as hell.


Glad you can admit that.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Oisin Sandovar
Don't Die Interstellar Enterprises
#231 - 2012-06-26 17:17:16 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
The idea that high-sec miners are bad for the game is repeatedly trumpeted by various people but it's never really been proven. People have only made emotional comparisons to nonexistent "good old days" and blamed the miners for them not being there anymore.



less high sec miners, less minerals, more expensive ships.

if ships become more expensive then people are less likely to spunk a battlecruiser up the wall in a fight and are more likely to want to get better so they aren't wasting "expensive ships"

that's the only real connection i can see, and even then it's flimsy as hell.

Yes, because ships cost more, people will PvP more because it costs more to replace ships! Roll

"And the only people I fear are those who never have doubts", Billy Joel, Shades of Grey
Dave Stark
#232 - 2012-06-26 17:19:06 UTC
Oisin Sandovar wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
The idea that high-sec miners are bad for the game is repeatedly trumpeted by various people but it's never really been proven. People have only made emotional comparisons to nonexistent "good old days" and blamed the miners for them not being there anymore.



less high sec miners, less minerals, more expensive ships.

if ships become more expensive then people are less likely to spunk a battlecruiser up the wall in a fight and are more likely to want to get better so they aren't wasting "expensive ships"

that's the only real connection i can see, and even then it's flimsy as hell.

Yes, because ships cost more, people will PvP more because it costs more to replace ships! Roll


pvp better, not more.
Oisin Sandovar
Don't Die Interstellar Enterprises
#233 - 2012-06-26 17:23:19 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
Oisin Sandovar wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
The idea that high-sec miners are bad for the game is repeatedly trumpeted by various people but it's never really been proven. People have only made emotional comparisons to nonexistent "good old days" and blamed the miners for them not being there anymore.



less high sec miners, less minerals, more expensive ships.

if ships become more expensive then people are less likely to spunk a battlecruiser up the wall in a fight and are more likely to want to get better so they aren't wasting "expensive ships"

that's the only real connection i can see, and even then it's flimsy as hell.

Yes, because ships cost more, people will PvP more because it costs more to replace ships! Roll


pvp better, not more.

But to pvp better one has to learn. One learns from experience. Experience pretty much requires a ship, or two, or three, or four to be blow up. Heck, everyone who pvps expects to lose their ship. So PvP + increase expense to replace ships = less pvp.

"And the only people I fear are those who never have doubts", Billy Joel, Shades of Grey
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#234 - 2012-06-26 17:23:26 UTC
Or more likely, people will just PvP less, because that's what people have done in the past.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Blastcaps Madullier
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#235 - 2012-06-26 17:59:18 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Who cares why they quit, the important thing is that they quit, and do it ASAP.


they quit cause of attitudes like this more than anything else, "who cares" you say, you will if eve gets closed due to a lack of subs because the sub base drops too far.

Eve forums have the dubious "honor" of being the biggest trolling flame fest hate filled bile of any other mmorpg out there, people complain about WoW forums being a flaming troll fest and someone will inevitably say "you think thats bad? go read the eve online forums sometime"

people have been moaning of late about CCP actually trying to clean things up some and changing to reflect that fact, others posting on these forums are still acting like it's 2007 with regards to their conduct and posting.

End of the day we all play eve to HAVE FUN having things you work for repeatedly nuked and left with very little, just because another player decides to force their way of playing on another player doesn't mean it's fun for the one on the receiving end, if your not having fun you'll find something else to spend money on.

a lot of players treat eve as just a game and act towards other players like their NPCs and what they do to them means nothing, to quote someone else "just because you have a d**k doesn't mean you should act like one"
arcca jeth
Dark Alliance
#236 - 2012-06-26 18:03:16 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Tenchi Sal wrote:
im pretty sure most miners are quitting not over pvp but how ****** the community of EVE is becomming. look at all the rage/hate towards them, they are blamed for every last thing thats bad in EVE online. i been playing mmos since 1999, dont ever remember seeing a group of players so blatantly "hated on" more then EVE miners.


You know why they're blamed? Because highsec miners, just like other highsec carebears, are bad for the game.

Highsec is supposed to be the tutorial area, with the least risk but also the lowest rewards. There should be absolutely zero profit for veteran players in highsec. If you have the skills to fly a Hulk, you should be forced to move to lowsec or 0.0 to get any money. You should NOT be given a nice gank-free AFK income source like highsec miners demand.

Hulkageddon should be impossible for the simple reason that there are no Hulks in highsec, and therefore nothing to suicide gank besides a handful of tutorial players mining in their frigates.



I'm pretty sure that if High-Sec was only meant to be the tutorial area, then you would only have 4 high sec systems, one for each starting area/race. I'm pretty sure there would be no missions over L3, no incursions and no Factional Warfare and no WH's spawning and no exploration sites.......so yah just STFU because you don't really get the meaning of SANDBOX.

"If you have the skills to fly a Hulk you should be forced to move to lowsec or to 0.0" that right there is contradictory to the whole SANDBOX model. SANDBOX = People do WTH they want. period. no forcing anyone to do anything. People will still suicide gank just for the lulz
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#237 - 2012-06-26 18:04:49 UTC
Merin Ryskin wrote:
The bad: mining sucks. It's boring as hell, it doesn't pay much (yet), and is generally the fastest way to get bored and quit EVE unless you're a bot.

The good: endless ganking of mining barges and carebears who are too stupid to figure out how to avoid being ganked and/or too lazy to make even the most basic attempts to protect themselves. When these worthless parasites on the game finally ragequit, mineral prices will increase and mining will become a much more profitable activity.

So, the question: when will enough carebears ragequit to get the ISK/hour for mining to a point that the profit justifies the endless misery of mining? At what point will even the most dedicated griefers and pirates find themselves training Mining Barge V?



It's misery for you...some people like mining.

To answer your largely rhetorical question, when there are no pilots mining and value is gutted from every other activity pvpers will mine against their will or retire their accounts.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]
Obsidian Dagger
Nitrus Nine
#238 - 2012-06-26 18:07:41 UTC
Someone, somewhere, is cackling in glee and rubbing their grubby little mittens together in the sure knwledge that wiping out hi-sec mining will bring massive profits to a select few, and ruin the enjoyment of the game for a vast majority.


The gankers are all the peons of this anonymous person/s, willing pawns who all stand around circle jerking each other about how miners are bad for eve and how elite they are at PVP, while blitzkrieging hulks with destroyers.
In between posting trollbait threads on the forums obviously.

And at the end of the day, when the dust_ settles, and miners are all gone, in camps owned by goons, or have retrained as soldiers for the war, and the shadow conspiracy behind hulkageddon have blitzed through all the other alliances and nations, and expanded their influence to all of null and most of low, when all that remains of freedom is a little island of starving civilians and old men with rusty rifters...

Wait.

No hang on sorry, I was watching a documentary on the Yesterday channel about the early years of WW2 and got a bit confused.

I hope EvE survives the death of mining as a profession. It probably will really, since 0.0 CAN provide everything needed.

What WON'T survive will be the gankers.

When only big, well defended alliances and pets can mine, THEY will dictate ship values, so prices won't just go up a bit, they will go up a LOT. Which benefits large player groups, not solo players. Gankers, will either have to become alliance pets or members, or else have to band together into large roving gangs, scouring the wasteland of Old Hisec for a few stray scavengers to loot.

Kill off high sec, I dare you. If CCP survive the subscription losses (which they MIGHT, if Dust514 can keep console gamers interested, and they sell a LOT of 'stuff' to the dust players), then it might be interesting to return in a couple of years, to see what has become of things.
I forsee a lot of highsec belts, untouched for months.
Lots of wrecks, but very little traffic through highsec.
Nuclear submarines will be left beached, rusting away in the middle of vast dry deserts.
Jita will be a memory, where the ironically minded go to scream "You Maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell! " at the monument.
And down in the deep 0.0 space, vast, bloated alliances operate beyond the law, commanding vast armies of private soldiers to do their bidding at a moments notice. Possibly perhaps, sending hapless crews of hauler pilots to investigate alien distress beacons on barren worlds.
Max Headroom will be on every news billboard on every gate.
And finally, a small group of research scientists will retrieve my frozen head from cryogenic storage in an attempt to rediscover the secrets of EvE's forgotten past, instead discovering a shocking event in my childhood and the nature of the human soul.






For the Honor of our Ancestors,
Commander Obsidian out.
malcovas Henderson
THoF
#239 - 2012-06-26 18:08:56 UTC
I make no bones, that I am a Miner, and proud of it. I will mine where ever my fancy takes me. If you don't like it. Gank me or STFU.

You have no right to tell me how I can play this game. Hell if I want to break a couple of rules and get banned THAT IS MY CHOICE. not yours. Just as it is your choice to play your game. I don't care if you think I am playing wrong, To me I am playing it right, and that is all that matters

You goonie rim lickers need to get a grip on the meaning of "Gaming"


vOv
arcca jeth
Dark Alliance
#240 - 2012-06-26 18:17:46 UTC
James 315 wrote:
Aramatheia wrote:
i participate in a ship building operation, hence i mine. Should there be less ships entering the game? whats people going to fly if thier ships blow up and theres no ship builders replacing the losses?

Mining and ship production can be handled by those in nullsec or even lowsec. Highsec miners have absolutely nothing to offer. If fewer ships entered the game as a result of carebears' destruction, who cares? I sure don't.


yah James315 is actually the Mittani. James315 is on a personal crusade against Miners because he wants more industry in low/0.0 for his nullbears to reap the rewards and benefits. James315 thinks that everyone shares his point of view and that everyone should play how he wants to play. James315, also spikes his coolaid and drinks it all day, thus creates this false sense of self importance, then he obviously chose a name with biblical reference as if he is some sort of "enlightened one" or "prophet" then he wastes hours of his time writing anti-miner Manifesto's for a video game LMAO this dude has no life and likely no wife either. Since James315 is a Mittani alt, it's obvious where his self important arrogance comes from. He is also a hypocrite. It's ok for nullbears to mine afk in their secure lowsec/0.0 systems, because they are safer. No one is putting a bounty on the lowsec/0.0 miners, ratters or moon mining towers.

Really dude, lay off the cool aid. This isn't your game and it's never going to be, and if it were, -5 accounts here because your dictatorship/prophetic attitude would just slowly kill the game.