These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Market Discussions

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page123Next page
 

Hulk Insurance Services
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Shooty McGankenpew
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2012-06-01 02:00:17 UTC
I heard about this in the mining chat room. With all the ganking going on I decided to try this out. Well, long story short, I was killed a couple of hours later by stupid goons. I convo'd Hrothgar Nilsson to let him know what happened and he laughed at me saying I wouldn't get any ISK. Do not send ISK to this scamming bastard.
Hrothgar Nilsson
#22 - 2012-06-01 02:02:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Hrothgar Nilsson
I'm flattered by the trolling attempt - but you did know my wallet is public?

You're.... 31 days old... and it takes what... ~51 days to train up the skills just to fly a Hulk? (not to mention associated skills)

I've... seen things you people wouldn't believe...

Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion...
Shooty McGankenpew
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2012-06-01 02:14:35 UTC
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
I'm flattered by the trolling attempt - but you did know my wallet is public?


I guess you don't remember asking me to send the ISK to your alt Hrothgar Nilssen. Don't try to wiggle out of this. Send me my ISK plus 1B ISK for you being a cheating bastard and I'll go away.
Hrothgar Nilsson
#24 - 2012-06-01 02:22:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Hrothgar Nilsson
Ariana DeSoto wrote:
What's with the shiity attitude? Acting like a butthurt **** when people ask questions doesn't look good. Your little idea sounds like a Ponzi, the more people pay into it the more the early adopters will get out of it. Not including the amount you line your pockets with. Just my 0.02 cents but please feel free to nerd rage and sperg a reply. Cool

Actually, I was just being frank. And perhaps a bit curt. In reply to a portion of a post where being a bit frank and curt was due.

The cap on the payout for the gap coverage is less than the value of what's lost. Even if the Hulk owner has platinum SCC insurance, it offers at most 90% of the gap in value between what's lost and what's paid out.

Ponzi schemes promise gains, not a percentage of the losses you've incurred.

Early adopters don't get "more". 5% of the insurance pool (up to a max 200m) is paid out upon loss of ship.

Whether the policy is 3 days, 3 months, or 3 years old: the owner of a lost Hulk receives the same exact payout for a given insurance pool.

Age of the policy has absolutely no bearing or relevance to anything. Apparent you didn't read anything, besides a one-second glance.

Of course, you're entitled to whatever opinions you choose to hold. Won't hold it against you.

I've... seen things you people wouldn't believe...

Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion...
EVE Roy Mustang
Doomheim
#25 - 2012-06-01 04:31:38 UTC
Nex apparatu5 wrote:
Alternately, send me 20 million isk and I'll put you on Goonswarm's "no gank" list. He might only pay out 20 million, but I stop you from ever getting ganked!


Yeah... and when you get ganked you go "Oh crap, I forgot to tell that guy"
Ariana DeSoto
High-Tech Duct Tape
#26 - 2012-06-01 05:02:05 UTC
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
Ariana DeSoto wrote:
What's with the shiity attitude? Acting like a butthurt **** when people ask questions doesn't look good. Your little idea sounds like a Ponzi, the more people pay into it the more the early adopters will get out of it. Not including the amount you line your pockets with. Just my 0.02 cents but please feel free to nerd rage and sperg a reply. Cool

Actually, I was just being frank. And perhaps a bit curt. In reply to a portion of a post where being a bit frank and curt was due.

The cap on the payout for the gap coverage is less than the value of what's lost. Even if the Hulk owner has platinum SCC insurance, it offers at most 90% of the gap in value between what's lost and what's paid out.

Ponzi schemes promise gains, not a percentage of the losses you've incurred.

Early adopters don't get "more". 5% of the insurance pool (up to a max 200m) is paid out upon loss of ship.

Whether the policy is 3 days, 3 months, or 3 years old: the owner of a lost Hulk receives the same exact payout for a given insurance pool.

Age of the policy has absolutely no bearing or relevance to anything. Apparent you didn't read anything, besides a one-second glance.

Of course, you're entitled to whatever opinions you choose to hold. Won't hold it against you.


Thank you for the sperg you made my night. This was too easy. :)

I don't always play EvE, but when I do, I prefer it to be a masochistic sandbox hell. Stay wardecked my friends.
Hrothgar Nilsson
#27 - 2012-06-01 05:07:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Hrothgar Nilsson
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2012-06-01 07:02:53 UTC
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
Thanks for the bumps. And playing the foil for expository.

oh, you are one of those people who believe that "all publicity is good publicity"?

in that case allow me to lend your scam a little more legitimacy.

If I buy an insurance policy for my Hulk there are two possible outcomes:

(A) Hulk gets blown up, I get at least 30m insurance payout from you.
(B) Hulk doesn't get blown up, I request a full refund of my policy from you.

An insurance usually relies on using the payments from those who don't suffer damages/losses to pay those who do - your insurance scheme would go broke if it did that (as you could no longer honor refunds) and relies completely on you earning enough from trading to cover payouts beyond the 20m.

I like miracle business plans and endorse this product and/or service.

.
Tom Hagen
Twilight Empire
#29 - 2012-06-01 07:31:55 UTC
I can admit I didn't bother to read all of the post on the second page.

I have just one question.
Usually in an insurance you pay a fee for a limited time, lets say a year. I have never got anything back from the insurance company for those years I didn't have a burglary or didn't crash the car.
Why would it be in your interest to repay the premium if they want out?
Shouldn't the service you are providing go more along the lines of you pay for an insurance for a period of time. During that time I will cover your cost according to what ever valuation your policy dictates atm.

The fee from persons who don't lose their ships should be your profit and the pool from which you pay your customer.
Then the question would be risks and premium cost in order for you to earn enough ISK to make it worth it.

If you want ISK to trade with, it sounds more like you should launch a small IPO or a bond.

Maybe I misunderstood something along the way!
Hrothgar Nilsson
#30 - 2012-06-01 08:24:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Hrothgar Nilsson
Vera Algaert wrote:
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
Thanks for the bumps. And playing the foil for expository.

oh, you are one of those people who believe that "all publicity is good publicity"?

in that case allow me to lend your scam a little more legitimacy.

If I buy an insurance policy for my Hulk there are two possible outcomes:

(A) Hulk gets blown up, I get at least 30m insurance payout from you.
(B) Hulk doesn't get blown up, I request a full refund of my policy from you.

An insurance usually relies on using the payments from those who don't suffer damages/losses to pay those who do - your insurance scheme would go broke if it did that (as you could no longer honor refunds) and relies completely on you earning enough from trading to cover payouts beyond the 20m.

I like miracle business plans and endorse this product and/or service.

Some differences between insurance in a game and in the real world:
  • I don't have to pay commissions and salary to insurance agents (who typically pocket the entire first year's premium in RL), insurance analysts, crash site investigators, actuaries, geckos, ducks, etc.
  • I don't have to provide employees (of which there are none) with medical, dental insurance, maternity/sick leave, early retirement, spend thousands to train employees who walk off the job a month later, or provide on-premises daycare.
  • I don't have to pay for a fleet of vehicles and gasoline for crash site investigators.
  • I don't have to pay overhead for offices, equipment, telephone bills, mail, electricity, those little coffee makers with the cups that brew single-serve coffee drinks, etc.
  • I don't have to cover medical expenses or lawsuits for/from crash victims.
  • I don't have to build half the skyscrapers in every major American city as insurance companies do.
  • I don't have to sponsor football stadiums, pay for television, radio, or internet ads, or sponsor a float in the Macy's Day Parade.
  • I don't have to donate to university alumni associations, colleges, and high schools to get students' addresses and phone numbers to spam them with 15 29% APR offers a month.
  • I don't have to have to pay federal, state, or local taxes on whatever ISK earnings I accrue. I don't have to hire tax preparers, auditors, H&R Block, etc. either.
  • I don't have to pay lobbyists to pass/slip **** in legislation that favors me, or donate to political campaigns.
  • I don't have to make donations to charity to be a good "corporate citizen".
  • I'm not mandated to take on clients per legislation I deem to be a poor risk as is the case in many areas.


So, unless you take all of that into consideration, it could be miraculous. But this is EVE. I don't have to do any of that crap. A universe in which legit loans repay 10% a month, not 0.25% a year like your Bank of America savings account you've had since you were six. (EVE loans pay 855 times more interest on an annualized basis, and unlike Weimar Germany, it's a semi-functional economy!)

That being said, there's a difference between conventional insurance and a risk pool.

If you care to learn more about the difference between a risk pool and conventional insurance, I'll get you started:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=risk+pool

I've... seen things you people wouldn't believe...

Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion...
Hrothgar Nilsson
#31 - 2012-06-01 08:49:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Hrothgar Nilsson
Tom Hagen wrote:
I can admit I didn't bother to read all of the post on the second page.

I have just one question.
Usually in an insurance you pay a fee for a limited time, lets say a year. I have never got anything back from the insurance company for those years I didn't have a burglary or didn't crash the car.
Why would it be in your interest to repay the premium if they want out?
Shouldn't the service you are providing go more along the lines of you pay for an insurance for a period of time. During that time I will cover your cost according to what ever valuation your policy dictates atm.

The fee from persons who don't lose their ships should be your profit and the pool from which you pay your customer.
Then the question would be risks and premium cost in order for you to earn enough ISK to make it worth it.

If you want ISK to trade with, it sounds more like you should launch a small IPO or a bond.

Maybe I misunderstood something along the way!

You can read the above post for much of your question.

One can look at it one of two ways. Either:

A) I keep their insurance premium when they file a claim for their loss, and pay them out of the insurance pool, or
B) Their actual net payout (let's say the insurance pool is big enough for the 200m payout) is 200m - 20m = 180m.

The way one looks at it (A or B) is a matter of semantics.

I've... seen things you people wouldn't believe...

Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion...
EVE Roy Mustang
Doomheim
#32 - 2012-06-01 23:06:25 UTC
ONLY thing you have to do to tell this is a scam:

Employment history:

S I L E N T.

Biggest griefers in Gallente space.
Yeaaaaaaa
Hrothgar Nilsson
#33 - 2012-06-01 23:28:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Hrothgar Nilsson
EVE Roy Mustang wrote:
ONLY thing you have to do to tell this is a scam:

Employment history:

S I L E N T.

Biggest griefers in Gallente space.
Yeaaaaaaa

Never head of S I L E N T. A search for "silent" turned up 226 corporations.

I've... seen things you people wouldn't believe...

Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion...
Dethmourne Silvermane
Silvermane Holdings LTD
#34 - 2012-06-01 23:51:09 UTC
What stops you from using this to raise trading funds, then closing out as soon as you've made enough money that it's a hassle?

Seems like a slick loan with the potential for 0% interest to me, though in reality you'll probably pay closer to 5-6% (which still beats what you could get for a legitimate trading bond as far as I can tell).

Interested Party (TM)
Hrothgar Nilsson
#35 - 2012-06-02 00:00:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Hrothgar Nilsson
Dethmourne Silvermane wrote:
What stops you from using this to raise trading funds, then closing out as soon as you've made enough money that it's a hassle?

Seems like a slick loan with the potential for 0% interest to me, though in reality you'll probably pay closer to 5-6% (which still beats what you could get for a legitimate trading bond as far as I can tell).

Nothing stops from from doing that. I'm just not going to.

Right now there is no successful player-run insurance system in EVE. I want to do something somebody else isn't, and I want the challenge. I want to see if doing this makes any sort of an impact in the game universe, whether it's a small impact or otherwise.

To be frank - it's more about that than the fastest way to profit and earn ISK. I may find that it isn't viable. But if it turns out not to be, I'm not going to leave anybody worse off than they were coming in.

I've... seen things you people wouldn't believe...

Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion...
EVE Roy Mustang
Doomheim
#36 - 2012-06-02 00:13:49 UTC  |  Edited by: EVE Roy Mustang
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
EVE Roy Mustang wrote:
ONLY thing you have to do to tell this is a scam:

Employment history:

S I L E N T.

Biggest griefers in Gallente space.
Yeaaaaaaa

Never head of S I L E N T. A search for "silent" turned up 226 corporations.


thats interesting... that you have no idea where your corp/alliance has been in...

Point is. People that join S I L E N T. do so for a reason. IE dont trust them. Kinda the idea of trusting any corp that was once in Goons...

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=alliance&name=S+I+L+E+N+T.

Even more funny that youd pretend to be so incapable.
Troll moar
EVE Roy Mustang
Doomheim
#37 - 2012-06-02 00:19:11 UTC
Shooty McGankenpew wrote:
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
I'm flattered by the trolling attempt - but you did know my wallet is public?


I guess you don't remember asking me to send the ISK to your alt Hrothgar Nilssen. Don't try to wiggle out of this. Send me my ISK plus 1B ISK for you being a cheating bastard and I'll go away.


Get the goons to dec him lol
Hrothgar Nilsson
#38 - 2012-06-02 00:19:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Hrothgar Nilsson
I've only been playing EVE for 41 days, and was invited to join a corp by someone I struck up a friendship with while ratting in Oursalaert my first week playing.

No, I don't know their history. It doesn't really concern me. They seem alright, and whomever the people in my corp/alliance were associated with prior to the time I signed up for a trial 41 days ago, I wouldn't know. Individuals members' prior assocations/activities doesn't have anything to do with what I'm doing.

I've... seen things you people wouldn't believe...

Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion...
EVE Roy Mustang
Doomheim
#39 - 2012-06-04 07:18:56 UTC
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:
I've only been playing EVE for 41 days, and was invited to join a corp by someone I struck up a friendship with while ratting in Oursalaert my first week playing.

No, I don't know their history. It doesn't really concern me. They seem alright, and whomever the people in my corp/alliance were associated with prior to the time I signed up for a trial 41 days ago, I wouldn't know. Individuals members' prior assocations/activities doesn't have anything to do with what I'm doing.



has the scan worked yet?

(might not wanna include a link to the thread where youre fighting to pretend it isnt a scam - it gives away the con)
Johnny Frecko
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2012-06-05 01:20:52 UTC
Remove the refund(or allow for half refunds at best) and you've eliminated the major "scammish" feeling from your business plan.

As it stands right now, It's a scam, or a terrible terrible business plan.
I REALLY hope for your sake it's a scam. i mean.. if it's not, you're giving ISK away.
can i haz your stuff?
Previous page123Next page