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New dev blog: Unified Inventory: Changes Coming Your Way This Friday!

First post
Author
mjgvjbk
Wombo United
#201 - 2012-06-01 06:52:20 UTC
CCP will NOT back down people your stuck with the new improved UI whether it works or not.

CCP: everyone is experiencing lag with this new UI BUT try living in Australia and play eve most of the time I get a ping of 200 to 300 at best 600 worst day. Now try opening the UI with 1000 items, it usually time for coffee while it opens.

Does ccp care - hell no.

well I just canceled 2 accounts while I decide if eve is worth playing anymore.
Jebediah MacAhab Dallocort
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#202 - 2012-06-01 07:17:45 UTC
Wilma Lawson wrote:
Skelf Scunner wrote:
And you do?

I don't know how things work for CCP and for this particular patch, but I do know software development processes.


No, you don't.

It's probably very likely that CCP ****** with the database schema in order to get this crapfest ready, thus their reluctance to roll it back on top of their preexisting cowardliness when approaching problems. However, they can still roll it back because they can script the UI to only use the information it needs, and then add any missing fields back in.

I honestly don't know why the **** they're still pushing ahead with it. Nobody wants it, and I've found myself playing other games that have a working UI.

How to Improve Quality Assurance at CCP

Professional Programmer, DBA, Game Developer and Systems Analyst

MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#203 - 2012-06-01 08:49:47 UTC
Jebediah MacAhab Dallocort wrote:
Wilma Lawson wrote:
Skelf Scunner wrote:
And you do?

I don't know how things work for CCP and for this particular patch, but I do know software development processes.


No, you don't.

It's probably very likely that CCP ****** with the database schema in order to get this crapfest ready, thus their reluctance to roll it back on top of their preexisting cowardliness when approaching problems. However, they can still roll it back because they can script the UI to only use the information it needs, and then add any missing fields back in.

I honestly don't know why the **** they're still pushing ahead with it. Nobody wants it, and I've found myself playing other games that have a working UI.

lol, are you trying to say people play eve for the UI? the most hated aspect about part of eve since it's release? you must be rollin, the new UI isn't good yet, but the old items ui wasn't good either. not by a long shot.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg

MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#204 - 2012-06-01 09:03:41 UTC
Susan Delgad0 wrote:
You're implementing yet another tree view for pos's? Did I read that right? Get it through your thick skull, I don't want a tree view!

Since rolling back isn't an option, what CCP should be looking to implement is 100% feature parity with the original interface. Then you should be looking to implement a check box to selectively enable new features at a granular level. The key here is selectively and with granular control. There may be times or specific instances where I want /SOME/ of these features enabled. I should be able to choose when that is appropriate, and on what accounts I think this is appropriate on. I'd use this new crap on a couple of accounts, but on my accounts with a significant amount of assets it's not practical in it's current state, and I fail to see why you can't understand this simple concept...

What I want to read in the next devblog is simply, we're implementing 100% feature parity with the old system, and allowing you to choose default behavior with granular control. If you're going to be wasting our valuable time alpha testing code on production servers, you might as well give us what we want and do it correctly.

Hope this helps,

~s~


no one is forcing you to use the tree view when dealing with POS. just shift click, windows will remember locations, you can minimize the tree UI with the << button. besides shift click should be made a toggle soon. So all that's left is the lag and being able to minimize the isk value thing. plus they should make the cargo bar more sleek, take up less space, look more sexy.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg

disasteur
disasterous industries
#205 - 2012-06-01 09:34:35 UTC  |  Edited by: disasteur
MotherMoon wrote:
Jebediah MacAhab Dallocort wrote:
Wilma Lawson wrote:
Skelf Scunner wrote:
And you do?

I don't know how things work for CCP and for this particular patch, but I do know software development processes.


No, you don't.

It's probably very likely that CCP ****** with the database schema in order to get this crapfest ready, thus their reluctance to roll it back on top of their preexisting cowardliness when approaching problems. However, they can still roll it back because they can script the UI to only use the information it needs, and then add any missing fields back in.

I honestly don't know why the **** they're still pushing ahead with it. Nobody wants it, and I've found myself playing other games that have a working UI.

lol, are you trying to say people play eve for the UI? the most hated aspect about part of eve since it's release? you must be rollin, the new UI isn't good yet, but the old items ui wasn't good either. not by a long shot.


he isnt saying he plays the game because of the UI, just that he now playing games that have a good functioning one..

and please explain so i will understand... why wasnt the old UI not good?

i mean the old one could use a facelift but further more it did its job
CCP Soundwave
C C P
C C P Alliance
#206 - 2012-06-01 10:07:37 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Soundwave
Update!

We added some extra stuff today:


  • We've fixed the issue with missing items in the hangar

  • We've fixed the issue where you couldn't open the corporate hangar if you only had query roles


We're working on putting together the patch for next week, but communication might be a bit sketchy since I'm in a room with the CSM all day :) We'll try and get something out today, otherwise expect a devblog on Monday regarding the next round of changes!
Callidus Dux
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#207 - 2012-06-01 10:17:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Callidus Dux
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Update!

We added some extra stuff today:


  • We've fixed the issue with missing items in the hangar

  • We've fixed the issue where you couldn't open the corporate hangar if you only had query roles


We're working on putting together the patch for next week, but communication might be a bit sketchy since I'm in a room with the CSM all day :) We'll try and get something out today, otherwise expect a devblog on Monday regarding the next round of changes!


Mr. Soundwave: I do not want to wait till you "get something out" some day. I want to play the game I pay for. But CCP has ruined the game. Check my online times.. I do not play EVE since 22.05.2012 more than a few minutes per day; but I have to pay? BRING BACK THE OLD UI! Do not talk to the CSM; they cant do anything anyway. Listen to your customers who wants the old UI back. The 100% copy or the original UI. Not this fubar Arrow- Crapsh!t of Unified Inventory. THIS project must die! No single window where you need several windows, adjustable in size and position. WITHOUT any Shortcuts!

JUST double clicks on icons and items. NOTHING ELSE!
Noriko Mai
#208 - 2012-06-01 10:27:33 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Update!

We added some extra stuff today:


  • We've fixed the issue with missing items in the hangar

  • We've fixed the issue where you couldn't open the corporate hangar if you only had query roles


We're working on putting together the patch for next week, but communication might be a bit sketchy since I'm in a room with the CSM all day :) We'll try and get something out today, otherwise expect a devblog on Monday regarding the next round of changes!

Good work CCP. Keep the updates coming.

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein

disasteur
disasterous industries
#209 - 2012-06-01 10:48:40 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Update!

We added some extra stuff today:


  • We've fixed the issue with missing items in the hangar

  • We've fixed the issue where you couldn't open the corporate hangar if you only had query roles


We're working on putting together the patch for next week, but communication might be a bit sketchy since I'm in a room with the CSM all day :) We'll try and get something out today, otherwise expect a devblog on Monday regarding the next round of changes!



all day? doing what? playing diablo ? Big smile
CCP Soundwave
C C P
C C P Alliance
#210 - 2012-06-01 10:50:41 UTC
disasteur wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Update!

We added some extra stuff today:


  • We've fixed the issue with missing items in the hangar

  • We've fixed the issue where you couldn't open the corporate hangar if you only had query roles


We're working on putting together the patch for next week, but communication might be a bit sketchy since I'm in a room with the CSM all day :) We'll try and get something out today, otherwise expect a devblog on Monday regarding the next round of changes!



all day? doing what? playing diablo ? Big smile


I wish! Big smile
TravelBuoy
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#211 - 2012-06-01 11:03:05 UTC  |  Edited by: TravelBuoy
1.0.6

" Shortcuts to open Inventory locations will now open those locations in a new separate window.
The text color in the tree index view of the Unified Inventory is now the same as in other places in the EVE UI, making it more readable when the Inventory is pinned or something other than the default color.
Items, Ships, Corporation Divisions and Delivery Inventory windows will now remain open in a station if the user leaves them open when undocking and redocking.
Shift click will now focus on or toggle open/closed other windows.
POS structures are now grouped into one of four categories in the Unified Inventory tree view: “Defenses”, “Industry”, Storage” and “Infrastructure”.
Fixed an issue where users could not see items in their items or ships hangar."

But still not see in patchnotes, separated and compact windows without tree, for Active ship's Cargobay,Ship Hangar, Corp Hangars and still not see options for creating or drag&drop availability for this new separated windows icons to neocom.
Callidus Dux
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#212 - 2012-06-01 11:23:09 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
disasteur wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Update!

We added some extra stuff today:


  • We've fixed the issue with missing items in the hangar

  • We've fixed the issue where you couldn't open the corporate hangar if you only had query roles


We're working on putting together the patch for next week, but communication might be a bit sketchy since I'm in a room with the CSM all day :) We'll try and get something out today, otherwise expect a devblog on Monday regarding the next round of changes!



all day? doing what? playing diablo ? Big smile


I wish! Big smile

Do you troll your customer CCP Soundwave?
Did you not mentioned, that it would be possible to drag windows out of the UI again?
Not implemented? Just a shortcut sh!t?
I do not want to have shortcuts to open my inventory / ship / containers etc. I want to double click at them and a new window MUST pop up by default!

Absolute no improvement CCP. Fail again. Give me my money back!
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#213 - 2012-06-01 11:30:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Rommiee
CCP Soundwave wrote:


Shortcuts to open Inventory locations will now open those locations in a new separate window.



Well, if you can code a shortcut to open a new window, then you can code a button to do the same.

Reinstate the ships, items & Corp hanger buttons, and open them in a new window, tree view minimised by default.

At the same time, reinstate the right click shortcuts to open hangers in new windows (fuel bay, ships bay, Ships Corp hanger, drone bay, ore hold. Again tree view minimised by default.

This would go a long way to stemming the floods of rage and disgust that are aiming in your direction at the moment.

Stop trying to fiddle around to get this rubbish to work the way you want, producing failed patch after failed patch. Get it to work the way WE want.

It REALLY cannot be that difficult to do. Just suck it up and do it FFS.
TravelBuoy
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#214 - 2012-06-01 11:31:11 UTC  |  Edited by: TravelBuoy
Callidus Dux wrote:

Do you troll your customer CCP Soundwave?
Did you not mentioned, that it would be possible to drag windows out of the UI again?
Not implemented? Just a shortcut sh!t?
I do not want to have shortcuts to open my inventory / ship / containers etc. I want to double click at them and a new window MUST pop up by default!

Absolute no improvement CCP. Fail again. Give me my money back!


Just as i wrote here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1391162#post1391162

"Sry but we dont wanna learning more 1245 shortcuts. We have enough.
CCP guys think about it, this is the easiest way for new users ? For new user enough hard to learn this complex game without shortcuts combination memorizing. CCP why want confuse the new players more ?
Hard to memorizing for newbees the all shiptypes ,faction damages,agent rules, other important rules, ammo types, how work a gun in optimal and falloff range, what is the tracking speed and Radial velocity, overview settings, scanning etc. Really they want to learning what is the 45723472nd shortcut function ?

Give a chance for us to creating icons to Neocom for this windows with separated mode. Thats would be the best solution and could avoid to shortcuts with one click..."
Disdaine
#215 - 2012-06-01 11:51:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Disdaine
Thought I'd try salvaging a mission again, yay Silence the Informant, might find an arbie hml or two.

Redo the positioning of item hangar, cargo bay, and ship hangar for both accounts again.

Open first can, opens in base window, minimise tree, resize, loot all, still jumps back to ships cargo instead of closing window.

Open inventory, now resets my cargo bay to default tree view and size.

Try to shift click out cargo hold again, closes inventory.

Ok still ******. Try some more cans, double click, same behaviour, loot all, resets to base inventory.

Shift double click a can, loot all, well **** me it actually closes.

So now instead of double clicking every can you have to shift click them.

Unfortunately the now broken seperated cargo hold is a bigger issue. Right click to open cargo container in new window from tree view, closes inventory. :excellence:

I'll try again next week. Took the standings hit instead of bothering to finish mission. Oops, 6 days to plex account, oh well.

Of course you could make me happy and roll this **** back, never happen though, too many red faces.

Normally in past weeks I'd just say oh well CCP happened, I'll just go find some c-type invulns in Heimatar/Metropolis with my Loki/Tengu team, but now it looks like we've got the weekend to enjoy the now broken seperated cargo hold. Before you could have the cargo hold seperated and pinned at a small size and still open a new inventory window with alt+c, now it just closes and reopens the small pinned cargo bay.

Just thought I'd point out how awesome it is having isk values on my ship hangar, I'd allways wanted a way to overvalue my hulls without taking mods into consideration. How about 2 little buttons next to icons/details/list view buttons to toggle isk view/item count and filter box, then merge the capacity into that same bar. Another inch of screen clawed back.
TravelBuoy
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#216 - 2012-06-01 12:06:03 UTC  |  Edited by: TravelBuoy
The inventory is still crap. LOL

This is not separated and compact window. Nothing happened just CCP hide the treepanel, now that is the default setting when someone open a inventory window.


But, let's check out, what happening when a pilot click to overview icon (open cargo) to looting a wreck.


First, open ship cargo.This is opened our ship cargohold with closed treepanel. All right !!! First step is fine, maybe they fixed this thing, i'm said. Now we dont see treepanel,maybe we got separated active cargoholds, but let's check it out, what will happen when we click to overview icon ? Loot script starting to work, our ship moving to wreck and voilá we lost our opened active ship cargohold view, when the script starting to open a wreck window. LOL
This is a nightmare. CCP guys i still don't understand why not open the opened wreck in another separated inventory windows for easy loot ?
This should enable opportunity to the old and new inventory playstyle for players.

If someone want use the new inventory he not need to open his active ship's cargo hold,he just need to open the wrecks and he could be looting with drag&drop to treepanel.
But who want to use old method with separated windows, he need open his separated cargohold first and when a wreck open in a new windows he could be use as the old inventory worked earlier with drag&drop function to drop loots from one window to other window.


But, now we got a plus click, because we need to open the tree panel for drop there our loot (or we need to use the old drag&drop method those loots to cargohold icon on GUI) because wreck windows closed our opened calrgoholds and use the same window where was our cargobay earlier with closed treeview.
No separated windows here, no multiwindows for easy loot.


It's too hard for create a programcode which opening my cargo hold and wreck with two separated windows ?

WTF wrong with you CCP guys ?
Arco Arachni
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#217 - 2012-06-01 12:15:34 UTC
Thx for those POS categories... still having 23 of them in the same category (industry) ... could you please step one layer deeper and group them by type.

Shift clicking an Array / Lab / Hangar in the tree should open another window .. nothing happens now. I need to shift click a specific division ... shift click should open new window, while the systems needs to remember, which division was open last time .. that would be really useful.

I dont know how the others experience the following. If you adopt the windows explorer style ... then just adopt it completely ant not only half of that, what everybody is used to. I always click the arrows to navigate through the tree... when clicking on the names right to the arrows I expect the content window to show the content of that array (again rememberingthe last used division) instead the whol tree has no real function as long you arrived at the last element in the tree.

I like, that the shift clicked windows remember their position / stacking status. Could you please add the layout to this memory functions. I choose different size of buttons in the windows due to different tasks. I dont want the whole inventory system using the option I changed last, to any window it has.

Moving 500 Blueprints from hangar A to hangar B still stops the client to respond. I understand completely, that it may cant be done within a second. But why does it needs to freeze the whole client. Cant that be done in the background, giving my other tasks higher priority? So I could write evemails or something like that in the meantime. Its really frustrating, especially if oyu make the fault, to move items, while two clients are looking into the used divisions .. it freezes them both.

That's it for now. I like, that you wok on the things, and I like what you did so far .. but there is more to do, until it really gets better than the old one. This far, I only see us moving towards "to be nearly as good as the old one was" ...
Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#218 - 2012-06-01 12:17:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Urgg Boolean
Tested on SiSi, and now I see the changes on TQ:

Some pluses:
- performance getting better with each wave of updates.
- there is some in-station efficiency when xferring items between "items" and audit containers using tree mode.

More work needed:
- Salvaging : I am still getting momentary screen freezes upon "loot all". Not really where is was prior to new UI.
- market/pricing info is still bloating up the windows
- one suggestions is an auto on/off switch: if the native market window is open, then and only then, provide the price info in the cargo/container windows. If a market window is NOT open, then I don't need, want or like the price info bloating up my windows.
- lag and screen freezing are still obvious when sorting/stacking/xferring, although definitely improved.

I don't work with a POS. I'll be interested to hear what the POS owners have to say.

inefficiencies:
- Refining and/or reprocessing :: if you run the numbers and display the potential results prior to running the job, why then is each item processed one at a time? If you already calculated and displayed the results - simply deliver those results without a second (visible) pass that hits each item, one at a time and removes it from the list.

- Stacking: we can still see the visual of the cargo contents increasing in size and subsequently shrinking when being sorted/stacked. This means that the sorting process has still got hot triggers firing in other subroutines (like the container size calculations and display). Wouldn't it be more efficient to process the stacking-juggling in a "virtual" array that is disconnected from other triggers and subroutines? Then when that array is processed, do one single refresh that displays the stacked list. The container contents size remains the same as you are only stacking, so why do those calculation with hot triggers being invoked?

All this optimization you are doing now should have been in SiSi, where the work could have been scheduled in an efficient fashion. You are fighting fires in reactionary mode - always burns up resources more than planning. And you have earned the wrath of the playerbase at the same time. So please, do not subject us users to this kind of thing again. It's bad business (man power allocation), bad computer science, and bad public relations.

I challenge you - improve your work processes so that this kind of debacle never happens again.
Leucy Kerastase
650BN
#219 - 2012-06-01 12:21:45 UTC
Thanks for the shortcuts.

Some requests :

Please let each window remember their display & sort mode. The windows seem to share the same configuration (icon/list/details & name/quantity/type). That is, the last change I made to these settings seems to be applied to any window opened/re-opened after that. I used to be able to set each windows display/sort mode to my liking. I would like to be able to do that again.

Also, the tree show/hide status should be remembered for each window too, regardless of how they were opened. I know that these shortcuts were re-implemented to recover previous behavior so it's perfectly understandable that it hides the tree view by default. But yet, these tree view and filters are actually very useful in some cases (especially for my cluttered item hangar in my case) and it would be nice if I didn't have to manually reveal it every time I use it. I hope I'm not asking too much. Looking forward to the next iteration.
Disdaine
#220 - 2012-06-01 12:24:56 UTC
Quote:
We have been listening carefully to the feedback we have been hearing from the community and as a result...


You've managed to break seperated cargo holds in another untested CCP enema.