Assembly Hall

Ok so i have been giving this quite a bit of consideration and like the majority I accept Can Flipping as a normal, if some what frustrating, part of Eve and the risks that go with solo mining. But should we accept this as a valid criminal act and put up with it or should we be recognizing this as a loop hole in the game mechanics that's being exploited?

You see for as much as I, like all who experience it, don't like it, the simple act of having my hard earned ore or anything else i may store in a jet-can stolen is something i can begrudgingly accept as a rightful act of criminality. If some one has the means to come in and steal my stuff and are confident they can get away unscathed then fine that is all part of what Eve is about.
However where I'd draw the line is when some one steals from me, with a clear recognition they took what is mine by the very fact i am now allowed to take aggressive actions against them with no repercussions from Concord, and yet to take what is mine simply by it being within their jet-can is to afford them the same rights.
My problem with this is that it seems like a complete contradiction to one moment recognize a theft of my property, to the next, simply by means of where it resides, now treat it also as though it is their property which i am able to steal; I should not be able to steal what is mine but only take it rightfully no matter where it is unless that place is Inaccessible to me i.e Secure Container, Station or within a ship.

My initial suggestion would be that an Item stack has a marker which denotes who it belongs to. When legitimately transacted this marker would be changed or acceptably when stolen items are sold on this would change. But when an item is simply stolen this marker would stay the same and so allow the owner, where possible such as in jet-can storage, to take back there items with no repercussions.
This I think would benefit game play in a few ways, not least that it would even the odds between miners and those who seek to commit criminal acts against them. It would mean that by current means those stealing would only be able to smash and grab relatively small amounts if they want the protection of their fighting ships to help ensure they can get away with it. It would allow Miners the chance to salvage at least some of the haul they have just spent the last 3 hours or so collecting. But most importantly it would mean those wanting to make their living of this sort of criminality would require the right tools. As apposed to now where they leave what they take in a jet-can for half hour while their friend turns up in a hauler and the miner has to frustratingly just accept their loss while all their hard earned ore just sits there right in front of them, instead the thief would have to come in a hauler if they wished to ensure they can take as much as possible before the miner is able to get any out of there. Because the fact is most miners who have spent their time on that route of training don't currently have the means to match, let alone out gun, those who can flip. But if stealing required that the thief used the right ship for the job such as a hauler, less the miner move most of their haul out, then it would allow the miners at least the chance and opportunity of chasing down and apprehending the thief. There would be a chance that the thief may actually lose out. There would be a chance the miner may actually get their haul back.

To conclude this is something that could truly bring more balance to game play. It would encourage more tactical play and provide a greater medium to allow more miners to engage in some PvP aspects. By simply recognizing ownership of items beyond just who is currently in possession of them it would remove a major point of contradiction in the game system, afford a sense of owner ship to those who spend hours of game play on extracting resources, and most of all encourage far more fluent interactions between players.

EDIT: Alternative change
Bassed on suggestion and concerns about my initial suggested method to acheive the goals stated, it would perhaps be better to simply change the way Jet-cans work.


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P.s. Please like this topic if you would support this kind of change. And remember its not about stopping criminality as that's an important part of what makes Eve, just about evening the odds.

Orcas take time to train, and i think till then can mining is a valid if acceptably risky way to solo mine. I just think how those risks are posed should change to provide more balanced game play and give those working for something greater possession over what they work for.

Mining high sec is as acceptable a way to make profits as anything else in the game. And with what i propose no one would be under the protection of Concord. Its just about evening the odds and there by encouraging more fair PvP between criminals and those they target.

Jet-cans hold allot more than most secure containers and are far cheaper. And i wouldn't call it laziness but efficiency. Its far more efficient to sit on a belt longer and take out one large haul.

Now plenty of people use this method and if you don't know that then perhaps you are ignorant. Of course it comes with risks and i'm saying that i accept that. I'm prepared to have my haul stolen.

What i'm trying to put across though is that in the interest of avoiding contradiction and to provide more balanced game play (Balanced game play being the theme of damn near every aspect of change I've ever seen to the game) that perhaps a change in the way ownership is perceived and works would be a good idea.

Koreli, you are missing the point, posting in "forums" only attracts a negative response. You will not interact with peers exchangeing ideas , saddly only spewn hatetred for expressing your ideas, "Eve is not the problem, it is the people who play it.
They enjoy the challenge of combating unarmed participants, they love to cause player misery for no other reason because they can, and they actually take pride in that! how could you ever expect to change that? the In game issues and mechanics are merely breeding grounds for this type of behavior, and they use it as a shield proclaiming that its only a game and they are not like this in real life, truly the greatest lie ever told.
Your idea has merit and will fall on deaf ears my friend,

You.... a 2 Month old Toon telling me that a Jet Can holds more.


That's funny.

Keep calling me Ignorant..lets see how far you get.

You have no business making proposals or changes to a game you barely understand let alone know how to play.

High Sec is not supposed to be a safe haven for mining... its safer.

Until you learn that lesson...you will never get anywhere.

This is not real life.....this is a game....stop making comparisons are such.

And as for ownership....you have every right to challenge the theif who took your ore and to take it right back.

So instead of ####ing about it...fight back then....stop whining.

You should stop and consider that some of us (Such as me who have played since 2008) would rather eat dirt than tolerate people who get on a pedistal and consider themselves "all that" and "experts" after 2 months of playing this game in changing a very large portion of said game so dramatically that they completely ignore the ramfiications all because "they don't like it"


Your mining corp is likely just as foolish as the rest of them if they think they are entitleneted to jet can mining without risk or concern. (doubtful as if they are old as you say).

And sorry to say...you are a true blue green earned noob. Prue and simple.


The only time I have evered jet canned (after learning the hard way you dont) is in 0.0 or WHS.

Why? because your gonna die anyway...so who cares.


As I said....you have alot to learn before you start pushing such game breaking ideas on us.

Until such time...don't bother....spend 6 months to a year first before you come back here and tell us you feel entitlted as such to that kind of mining.

If its that bad and you have no friends....go fly a hulk and slow hoof it. I had too..its not that hard.
Just don't think your entitlented to safety in that light either in high sec space....as I'm sure many will be quick to point out.
Again....you can fight back...no one said you couldn't.

Am I terese? Yes....but if you had done your research....and realized no one touches this subject without fear of getting burned...youd understand.

This here is a game of Capitalist intentions. Those ore "thieves," as you'd like to call them, are simply re-allocating resources away from bad projects to ones that have merit. At the same time, they employ economic means to keep you from interfering with their markets.

Silly peasant, all is working as intended!

Again if you read what I've been saying i don't want to stop can theft altogether and i accept thievery and criminality as a fair part of the game.



My thought was an entire stack would be tagged in some way not each indevidual piece of ore. But of course then in spliting the stack all splits would need the tag. But this i just as a base suggestion to help put across the idea.
Also i get your concerns about how easily those working together could handle each others items but i see three points to this:

• Players working together even if having to steal each others items would do nothing about the agression flags given. They would just ignore it.
• Players could always fleet and then simply as now they would be alowed to access each others cans and all stacks would instead have a fleet tag or somthing.
• If CCP can already program for those im working with to share cans and ore with no penalty but for can flippers to be recognised as stealing then there must be some recognition of owner ship. So it wouldnt be a great step to recognise what i own once its been moved and allow me to take it still as mine.

I see masses of tags tracking even just entire stacks might be a problem for game performance and i gues currently it is simply defined by the can itself, hence taking my own stuff back is stealing. But perhaps some sort of tag would only be applied at the point of theft. the tag would then be removed again if:

1. the owner takes the items back
2. the jet can they are placed in times out
3. the items are sold on or used up

So i think its plausible and just comes down to if for once people want "balancing" to involve industrialists. Also thank you Kusum for your constructive points.

I agree it could well be argued and argue i shall Haha. Please show me the point in any description that says a Jet-can is a bin, that any items within MUST be unwanted?

There is an option built in to abandon wrecks and jet-cans where the content is not wanted (is viewed as rubbish). But other wise it is treated as the players property that can be stolen. I feel this completely negates your point on a jet can only being for trash items as were this the case the items within and the jet can would automatically be treated as abandoned and all contents would be truly FREE for ALL to take.

Now if that were the case then the problem i propose to solve would not exist at all as those flipped would be as free to take back their items as the person trying to steal them. So as this is clearly not the case i'd suggest in fact that jet-cans are precisely intended for transfer.

As such i feel my point still stands and again i repeat, this is not about preventing theft, only about ensuring players do it properly and in doing so evening the odds (Creating "Balance") between players. If some one wants to steal my stuff properly they need the right tool (a hauler) in order to grab as much as they can before i have the chance to counter them. They would have to smash and grab as the risk would be i am actually able to chase them down and serve my justice.

People keep saying its all about Risk vs Reward, but ALL the risk here is on the side of the Miner and none for the Thief. I stress this is about BALANCE And encouraging a greater depth of interaction between players playing these roles. But as it stands it is a totally out gunned process which is as much about mindless destruction as it is taking the items. This can not be denied as were it not the case they would not turn up in battle ships to leave my gods sat in space for half hour. No if it wasn't the case they would just as i suggest be turning up in a hauler and taking the lot and getting lost right away.



Actually this is what i want, a good constructive point against me. And of course i will argue against you. But so long as i can stand my ground it can only help my point, if not i would accept my idea was not valid. But as yet that is for others to read the points and decide.

But so thank you, i appreciate your input.