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A Plea for Rationale in the System of Natural Consequences
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Cloned S0ul
POCKOCMOC Inc.
#161 - 2012-05-28 04:22:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Cloned S0ul
Here two type of people who pvp, a true warriors who fight vs combat ships druing war dec, or on low sec, or null space, second type a carebear who think they badass because he can kill other careberars who using miningbarges, also no balzz ******* bunch of idiots who fell mighty while destroying poor mining barge, even no profit form kiling them only empty killmails statistic with some value but infact 0 profit. Some people say, we do it for lulz but this is bulshit, here no fun at all while kiling carebear who blow in 5sec to two destroyers.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#162 - 2012-05-28 04:26:35 UTC
Cloned S0ul wrote:
Here two type of people who pvp, a true warriors who fight vs combat ships druing war dec, or on low sec, or null space, second type a carebear who think they badass because he can kill other careberars who using miningbarges, also no balzz ******* bunch of idiots who fell mighty while destroying poor mining barge, even no profit form kiling them only empty killmails statistic with some value but infact 0 profit. Some people say, we do it for lulz but this is bulshit, here no fun at all while kiling carebear who blow in 5sec to two destroyer.


An untanked hulk with t2 strips and MLU will get you millions depending on your luck.
Mina Hiragi
Perkone
Caldari State
#163 - 2012-05-28 04:29:06 UTC
Oddball Six wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Arcticblue2 wrote:


Actually there are many good ideas... paying fines for suicideganking ... also does make the timer for concord last only in gametime so there is no point for the player to log off to wait out the timer with their main instead ... so that would make them having to wait a while before next target and such.


The ganker loses their ship
They get a sec status hit and will be attacked by the empire navies when it gets low enough
They turn flashy red in local and on the overveiw
Anyone can attack a -10 pirates ship
Concord will destroy any ship the pirate gets into within 15 minutes of aggression
The "victim" can kill the pirate

Seems we already have penalties in place.


Which are clearly effective [/sarcasm].

I think that's the problem, none of these are particularly effective in a high sec zone. Particularly when these individuals are able to dock at stations, etc, as if nothing had happened.


Clearly, they are indeed effective. If you understand what effective means. Effective, despite the mewlings of the clueless, does not mean, "Nobody will ever blow up my failfit hulk! I will never suffer any negative consequences for my complete failure at risk mitigation!"

Protip: If your Industripie evolves into a Squishypod, use HARDENTFU. It's super-effective!
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#164 - 2012-05-28 04:29:37 UTC
Cloned S0ul wrote:
Here two type of people who pvp, a true warriors who fight vs combat ships druing war dec, or on low sec, or null space, second type a carebear who think they badass because he can kill other careberars who using miningbarges, also no balzz ******* bunch of idiots who fell mighty while destroying poor mining barge, even no profit form kiling them only empty killmails statistic with some value but infact 0 profit. Some people say, we do it for lulz but this is bulshit, here no fun at all while kiling carebear who blow in 5sec to two destroyers.


posts like this make it worth all the while even if it was totally unprofitable

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#165 - 2012-05-28 04:32:53 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Cloned S0ul wrote:
Here two type of people who pvp, a true warriors who fight vs combat ships druing war dec, or on low sec, or null space, second type a carebear who think they badass because he can kill other careberars who using miningbarges, also no balzz ******* bunch of idiots who fell mighty while destroying poor mining barge, even no profit form kiling them only empty killmails statistic with some value but infact 0 profit. Some people say, we do it for lulz but this is bulshit, here no fun at all while kiling carebear who blow in 5sec to two destroyers.

posts like this make it worth all the while even if it was totally unprofitable

Look, I see the "lulz" right there ~

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Cloned S0ul
POCKOCMOC Inc.
#166 - 2012-05-28 04:36:50 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Cloned S0ul wrote:
Here two type of people who pvp, a true warriors who fight vs combat ships druing war dec, or on low sec, or null space, second type a carebear who think they badass because he can kill other careberars who using miningbarges, also no balzz ******* bunch of idiots who fell mighty while destroying poor mining barge, even no profit form kiling them only empty killmails statistic with some value but infact 0 profit. Some people say, we do it for lulz but this is bulshit, here no fun at all while kiling carebear who blow in 5sec to two destroyer.


An untanked hulk with t2 strips and MLU will get you millions depending on your luck.


Fit tornado go to jita area in weekend while a lot people, scan industrals, you can earn bilions depending your luck... Still better solution to get money than hunting for 3 strip miners and mlu, and much easy.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#167 - 2012-05-28 04:37:51 UTC
Cloned S0ul wrote:
Fit tornado go to jita area in weekend while a lot people, scan industrals, you can earn bilions depending your luck... Still better solution to get money than hunting for 3 strip miners and mlu, and much easy.


because there most certainly aren't 200 dudes waiting to loot every ship that pops in jita

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#168 - 2012-05-28 04:41:24 UTC
Cloned S0ul wrote:


Fit tornado go to jita area in weekend while a lot people, scan industrals, you can earn bilions depending your luck... Still better solution to get money than hunting for 3 strip miners and mlu, and much easy.


There is an endless supply of badly tanked hulks out there which will earn you a suprising amount of isk in a short time. Ganking miners is easyer as there is just so many of them.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#169 - 2012-05-28 04:57:56 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:


lol, so has the amount of bookmarks in my browser, it doesn't mean they're all active or even used.

That graph shows the facts, not hearsay and misinformation gained from a company's PR department.



Subscriptions are where the money comes from. A graph of players on a few days is nice but says nothing about how much money is being made.


Considering there's no outside party to verify the numbers posted by a company PR representative, what little info there is available along with recent events seems to paint a different picture.



If what you and others claim is true, then the Eve Offline graph would definitely show it.

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Kaaeliaa
Tyrannos Sunset
#170 - 2012-05-28 05:10:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaaeliaa
James 315 wrote:
Kaaeliaa wrote:
I think your manifesto is a blatant troll, but on the off-chance you're actually serious, I just had to tell you what an idiot you are. Large nullsec alliances have FAR more influence over the direction of this game than any other group has ever had,

Let's hope so.

Quote:
....The sociopathic actions of pirates, thieves, and scum is what continues to deter people without serious psychological problems from lowsec and nullsec.

You mean by blowing up spaceships in a game where people blow up spaceships? Is it sociopathic to play EVE as intended? I think not. Lol

Quote:
Facing a distinct lack of easy targets instead of other organized alliances, the powerful groups decided to impose their will on players that wanted nothing to do with them.

Good. This is called "non-consensual PvP."

Quote:
Since CCP isn't a company of complete morons, they were forced to take action before they started losing subscriptions.

They lost subscriptions with Incarna, the expansion designed to gear the game toward a more mainstream audience. CCP gains subscriptions when they gear the game toward proper EVE players--the "sociopaths" you mentioned earlier.

You can have your mindless highsec mining...I and the rest of the EVE community will take Burn Jita and Hulkageddon any day. Smile


Incarna wasn't mainstream, it was just complete crap. Melting people's GPUs because of some of the most terribly optimized code I've seen in a long time, charging $70 for a monocle, and showing their paying customers the door, literally, when disabling the CQ...well, that's bound to **** some people off.

For the record, I am not a miner. I also apologize for the name-calling; I'm in a foul mood. But, my point, that large nullsec alliances like Goonswarm and TEST wield far more power than the less organized highsec players, stands.

Here's the problem: yes, non-consensual PvP will happen. You are perfectly within your rights to destroy anything you feel like destroying. However, your actions have human consequences that reach far beyond getting your ship destroyed by CONCORD. Like it or not, in the current state of the game, highsec miners provide a large volume of low end minerals. Enticing them to ragequit doesn't help the economy, which directly hurts you and many, many other people, not all of them highsec "carebears." The large alliances mostly don't care about this, since they have renter mining corps and supply trains. But if ship and mineral prices increase significantly, it's yet another entry barrier for new players, especially into small-gang PvP, which is what you ultimately want. If battlecruiser hulls all break 100 mil, cruisers for 20 mil, frigates for 2 mil...you're actually reducing the incentive and ability of people who might have been interested in PvP to get started with it. Consequences have an annoying habit of cascading.

Basically, what I'm trying to say, is don't **** in your own sandbox, because nobody will want to play with you.

"Do not lift the veil. Do not show the door. Do not split the dream."
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#171 - 2012-05-28 05:27:47 UTC
Kaaeliaa wrote:


Incarna wasn't mainstream, it was just complete crap. Melting people's GPUs because of some of the most terribly optimized code I've seen in a long time, charging $70 for a monocle, and showing their paying customers the door, literally, when disabling the CQ...well, that's bound to **** some people off.

For the record, I am not a miner. I also apologize for the name-calling; I'm in a foul mood. But, my point, that large nullsec alliances like Goonswarm and TEST wield far more power than the less organized highsec players, stands.

Here's the problem: yes, non-consensual PvP will happen. You are perfectly within your rights to destroy anything you feel like destroying. However, your actions have human consequences that reach far beyond getting your ship destroyed by CONCORD. Like it or not, in the current state of the game, highsec miners provide a large volume of low end minerals. Enticing them to ragequit doesn't help the economy, which directly hurts you and many, many other people, not all of them highsec "carebears." The large alliances mostly don't care about this, since they have renter mining corps and supply trains. But if ship and mineral prices increase significantly, it's yet another entry barrier for new players, especially into small-gang PvP, which is what you ultimately want. If battlecruiser hulls all break 100 mil, cruisers for 20 mil, frigates for 2 mil...you're actually reducing the incentive and ability of people who might have been interested in PvP to get started with it. Consequences have an annoying habit of cascading.

Basically, what I'm trying to say, is don't **** in your own sandbox, because nobody will want to play with you.


If miners were going to quit they would have done it years ago and prices have in fact been dropping over the last few weeks.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#172 - 2012-05-28 05:38:54 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


If miners were going to quit they would have done it years ago and prices have in fact been dropping over the last few weeks.

Years ago Suicide Ganking Industrial ships wasn't as prevalent in-game as it is now.

Also the majority of players who rage quit this game are Industrialists.

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#173 - 2012-05-28 05:52:18 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:

Years ago Suicide Ganking Industrial ships wasn't as prevalent in-game as it is now.

Also the majority of players who rage quit this game are Industrialists.


Sure it was. You think its bad now? You should have been here when M0o were camping the space lanes killing everything including CONCORD

They are what brought about the CONCORD we see today. And its not industrialists that quit in a fit of rage. Its the risk adverce cowardly fools who do stupid things and the blaim everyone and everything for their own mistakes. The type of people who, rather than learn from mistakes will whine to CCP to change the core of a 9 year old game because they don't want to face failing.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#174 - 2012-05-28 06:00:22 UTC
Kaaeliaa wrote:
But, my point, that large nullsec alliances like Goonswarm and TEST wield far more power than the less organized highsec players, stands.

Yeah, that's sort of to be expected.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Ludi Burek
The Player Haters Corp
#175 - 2012-05-28 06:01:09 UTC
Whiners don't quit, they just whine over and over again. True story. I wish they would quit since they contribute nothing to the game except their subscriptions and forum griefing.

Also, amazing how many people can't separate RL from a game. It's depressing.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#176 - 2012-05-28 06:06:24 UTC
Ludi Burek wrote:
Whiners don't quit, they just whine over and over again. True story. I wish they would quit since they contribute nothing to the game except their subscriptions and forum griefing.

Also, amazing how many people can't separate RL from a game. It's depressing.

Let me tell you about a certain highsec miner that had a lowsec pos ....

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
EVE Roy Mustang
Doomheim
#177 - 2012-05-28 06:19:35 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Cloned S0ul wrote:
Here two type of people who pvp, a true warriors who fight vs combat ships druing war dec, or on low sec, or null space, second type a carebear who think they badass because he can kill other careberars who using miningbarges, also no balzz ******* bunch of idiots who fell mighty while destroying poor mining barge, even no profit form kiling them only empty killmails statistic with some value but infact 0 profit. Some people say, we do it for lulz but this is bulshit, here no fun at all while kiling carebear who blow in 5sec to two destroyers.


posts like this make it worth all the while even if it was totally unprofitable


ah but isnt that CCP's definition of actionable ganking?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#178 - 2012-05-28 06:22:54 UTC
EVE Roy Mustang wrote:


ah but isnt that CCP's definition of actionable ganking?


Nope.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#179 - 2012-05-28 06:31:01 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
EVE Roy Mustang wrote:
ah but isnt that CCP's definition of actionable ganking?

Nope.

Maybe they should ask CCP.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#180 - 2012-05-28 06:31:34 UTC
Oddball Six wrote:

We would see concerted action on multiple fronts from the US, the EU, and the UN. Antitrust hearings. Courts and tribunals. Resolutions and committees.


Hold up, what game are we playing again? You totally lost me, how does these assumed norms of our present day world apply to EVE?

Oddball Six wrote:
I do not live in my mother's basement.


Clearly a very important fact, thank you for telling us. However, it does raise other questions. Does your mother have a basement, and would she allow you to live there if you asked?