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A Plea for Rationale in the System of Natural Consequences
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FeralShadow
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#61 - 2012-05-27 23:51:54 UTC
While you may not make a conscious effort to pvp, and want to avoid it, this is a game where you are safe nowhere. You cannot float along and expect your ship to be perfectly safe at any given time, even in high security. This seems like your own ignorance that cost you your ship.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Oddball Six
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2012-05-27 23:51:58 UTC
Vaal Erit wrote:

Oh and why didn't you warp out your pod? It takes a catalyst about 3 seconds to lock a pod and about .25 seconds for a pod to warp out. The only reason you get podded is because you don't pay attention or are botting.



Casual gamer. I was trying to warp out and had right clicked and was selecting from menu when I was killed.

Not everyone has the same decade-honed super-gamer reflexes your theoretical explanation has.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#63 - 2012-05-27 23:52:47 UTC
Ten Bulls wrote:
You know the OP has made a good point when so many knuckle-draggers make such feeble explanations and personal attacks.


I gots the EULA; the TOS; 8 Years of Dev Blogs, Posts, Videos, etc; 8 years of adverts and promotional materials; and 8 years of expansions that never stopped suicide ganking. All backing my stance.

So I don't actually care to convince anyone right now. I'm arguing to amuse myself, and sometimes it amuses me (with my knuckles firmly in the dirt) to call people like you little nancys.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#64 - 2012-05-27 23:55:18 UTC
Oddball Six wrote:
Vaal Erit wrote:

Oh and why didn't you warp out your pod? It takes a catalyst about 3 seconds to lock a pod and about .25 seconds for a pod to warp out. The only reason you get podded is because you don't pay attention or are botting.



Casual gamer. I was trying to warp out and had right clicked and was selecting from menu when I was killed.

Not everyone has the same decade-honed super-gamer reflexes your theoretical explanation has.


So lesson learned. Every overview should have the Sun (at least). As soon as you were tackled, you should have selected the sun and started spamming warp (through the selected item window) until your pod was in warp. No reflexes to it.

You really should have an overview tab with just planets and the sun, but for HS mining, the sun's probably plenty.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#65 - 2012-05-27 23:59:14 UTC
Ten Bulls wrote:
You know the OP has made a good point when so many knuckle-draggers make such feeble explanations and personal attacks.


What point would that be?
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#66 - 2012-05-28 00:00:00 UTC
Homo Jesus wrote:
I too want a change to the rules so it's easier for me to win at something. Whenever I get the time I'll find the bits and pieces of the EULA that support my views and make another thread to help our douche bag cause.

He's simply used to the real-life status quo, where people like himself have always gotten ahead via lobbying and frivolous lawsuits. There is nothing competitive about the state of business today, save for the free-for-all that is the entry-level job market. The whole system is fixed and rotten, but aside from that, it encourages complacency.

He is unable to enter an environment that EVE simulates, a purer, more base environment, and compete. He became lost, and unable to respond to changing trends. So he came to the forums, and with the usual passive-aggressive attitude that his kind exhibits, tried to get what he wants by making a bunch of real-life legal parallels.

At some point, he forgot that he was playing a video game with guns.

The thing that gets me the most, though, is that he thinks that his subscription acts as anything more than a cash buffer for CCP's actual development budget. It is indeed ignorant to think that CCP itself doesn't realize that the players who whine about getting killed will quit at some point. The only way they would stay (and even that is questionable, due to the whole boredom factor), is if these players were never violenced in any way, shape, or form. And in a game like EVE, that's simply impossible.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Virgil Travis
Non Constructive Self Management
#67 - 2012-05-28 00:00:59 UTC
Ten Bulls wrote:
You know the OP has made a good point when so many knuckle-draggers make such feeble explanations and personal attacks.


Better than being a thumb sucker I guess.

Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#68 - 2012-05-28 00:01:25 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Oddball Six wrote:
Vaal Erit wrote:
Oh and why didn't you warp out your pod? It takes a catalyst about 3 seconds to lock a pod and about .25 seconds for a pod to warp out. The only reason you get podded is because you don't pay attention or are botting.

Casual gamer. I was trying to warp out and had right clicked and was selecting from menu when I was killed.

Not everyone has the same decade-honed super-gamer reflexes your theoretical explanation has.

So lesson learned. Every overview should have the Sun (at least). As soon as you were tackled, you should have selected the sun and started spamming warp (through the selected item window) until your pod was in warp. No reflexes to it.

You really should have an overview tab with just planets and the sun, but for HS mining, the sun's probably plenty.

Casual gamer is an excuse nowadays?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Haulie Berry
#69 - 2012-05-28 00:04:34 UTC
You used a whole lot of words just to say, "Something I didn't like happened to my spaceship, CCP should do something about this because things I don't like shouldn't happen.
Mistah Ewedynao
Ice Axe Psycho Killers
#70 - 2012-05-28 00:06:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Mistah Ewedynao
One of the biggest points is that this PvP game is so fail at PvP that a large pct of the players actually think attacking defensless miners is some kind of accomplishment.

Or it's the only kind of PvP they can afford.

Nerf Goons

Nuke em from orbit....it's the only way to be sure.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#71 - 2012-05-28 00:11:01 UTC
Mistah Ewedynao wrote:
One of the biggest points is that this PvP game is so fail at PvP that a large pct of the players actually think attacking defensless miners is some kind of accomplishment.

Or it's the only kind of PvP they can afford.


It pays to kill untanked miners.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#72 - 2012-05-28 00:14:14 UTC
Mistah Ewedynao wrote:
One of the biggest points is that this PvP game is so fail at PvP that a large pct of the players actually think attacking defensless miners is some kind of accomplishment.

Or it's the only kind of PvP they can afford.


Oh, now it's not against CCP's stated policies, it's just distasteful to *you.*

I think it's funny. Plenty of other people also find it entertaining. Nobody actually said it was an accomplishment.
Miners have exactly the same defensive options as everyone else, so they are in no way defenseless.

In the immortal words of the great Dr. Cox:
"Wrong, Wrong, wrong, Wrong,
Wrong, Wrong, WRONG, Wrong,
You'reWrong
You'reWrong"

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Mistah Ewedynao
Ice Axe Psycho Killers
#73 - 2012-05-28 00:17:39 UTC
Quote:
Oh, now it's not against CCP's stated policies, it's just distasteful to *you.*


Actually I think their policies are in conflict with their implementations, and I would use lame instead of distasteful.

Nerf Goons

Nuke em from orbit....it's the only way to be sure.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#74 - 2012-05-28 00:19:16 UTC
Mistah Ewedynao wrote:
Quote:
Oh, now it's not against CCP's stated policies, it's just distasteful to *you.*


Actually I think their policies are in conflict with their implementations.


How so?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Makkz
Lamorei Prosapia Vexillum
#75 - 2012-05-28 00:22:20 UTC
Quote:
"A grief player, or "griefer," is a player who devotes much of his time to making others’ lives miserable, in a large part deriving his enjoyment of the game from these activities while he does not profit from it in any way. Grief tactics are the mechanics a griefer will utilize to antagonize other players. At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account."

Your own quote nullifies your entire argument.

"WHILE HE DOES NOT PROFIT FROM IT IN ANY WAY."

Hulkageddon organizers are both the holders of hulk BPO's, as well as huge stakeholders in the grand tech moon game, it has been quoted as a hulk's current tag of some 330m is some 70-80% based on the cost of tech moon goo.

If you didn't know these facts... your welcome, it shows your business sense is worth crap all in the sandbox, as you basically just got killed by a bigger better industrialist working there isk.
Hroya
#76 - 2012-05-28 00:23:47 UTC
You dont have to mine in a Hulk or other exhumer.
You can mine good enough the old fashion way in a dashing Rohk racked with miner 2's or the ever charming Domi to name 2.

Miner 2's have actuall mining sounds where as stripminers make your brain turn into mud.
It's oldschool but better then those shite dedicated barges.

Put some rock music on and zap away with your oversized all american hummer miner.
Costs less, yields enough and keeps most of the isk in your own pocket if you build it yourself.
Then spend your profit on some cheap t1 frigs or cruisers, slap some looted mission meta 4 mods on it and off you go to low/null/wh and get blown up in a blaze of glory.

Hop back into your Rohk and rinse repeat.

You go your corridor but.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#77 - 2012-05-28 00:27:25 UTC
Makkz wrote:
Quote:
"A grief player, or "griefer," is a player who devotes much of his time to making others’ lives miserable, in a large part deriving his enjoyment of the game from these activities while he does not profit from it in any way. Grief tactics are the mechanics a griefer will utilize to antagonize other players. At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account."

Your own quote nullifies your entire argument.

"WHILE HE DOES NOT PROFIT FROM IT IN ANY WAY."

Hulkageddon organizers are both the holders of hulk BPO's, as well as huge stakeholders in the grand tech moon game, it has been quoted as a hulk's current tag of some 330m is some 70-80% based on the cost of tech moon goo.

If you didn't know these facts... your welcome, it shows your business sense is worth crap all in the sandbox, as you basically just got killed by a bigger better industrialist working there isk.


Lets not forget that the ganker will also make a profit on every hulk killed via loot and salvage. Hulkageddon also offers bounties and prises for killed barges.
Mistah Ewedynao
Ice Axe Psycho Killers
#78 - 2012-05-28 00:30:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Mistah Ewedynao
Quote:
How so?


Well the definitions from the TOS the OP quoted sure sound exactly like Hulkageddon, add in the the Goons sponsorhip and profitrering, as pointed out by you and others, and that sure looks likes a conflict with CCP's definition of griefing.

Still my biggest gripe is that their really should be a way for "Skilled" (not throw away alts) pirate types to ply their trade in high sec. Also with them having a chance for a BIG loss, just like the targets.

I don't have all the answers, I just find the whole suicide ganking thing, well, lame. Lacking in content :)

edit: and yeah, I know about the profit thing. Pfft, which makes it even worse in my opinion. Not the gankers looting, the Goons behind it all.

Nerf Goons

Nuke em from orbit....it's the only way to be sure.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#79 - 2012-05-28 00:38:22 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
Mistah Ewedynao wrote:
Quote:
How so?


Well the definitions from the TOS the OP quoted sure sound exactly like Hulkageddon, add in the the Goons sponsorhip and profitrering, as pointed out by you and others, and that sure ;ooks likes a conflict with CCP's definition of griefing.

Still my biggest gripe is that their really should be a way for "Skilled" (not throw away alts) pirate types to ply their trade in high sec. Also with them having a chance for a BIG loss, just like the targets.

I don't have all the answers, I just find the whole suicide ganking thing, well, lame. Lacking in content :)



Where in the TOS or EULA does it mention griefing or any variation on that word? The Knowledge Base is part of neither the TOS nor the EULA.

As I pointed out above, the quotes from the TOS only appear to support an anti-gank agenda when stripped of context (both textual from the rest of the TOS and judicial from past GM rulings and Dev responses).

Recycling alts to escape sec status hits is a bannable offense.

Everyone sets their own risk tolerance in EvE. You can generally only lose what you have undocked with. So gankers and haulers/miners lose exactly the amount they were willing to risk.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#80 - 2012-05-28 00:39:32 UTC
Mistah Ewedynao wrote:
edit: and yeah, I know about the profit thing. Pfft, which makes it even worse in my opinion. Not the gankers looting, the Goons behind it all.

Luv2fromBehind

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?