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Noob impressions

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Velicitia
XS Tech
#61 - 2012-06-01 18:52:30 UTC
Daemon Ceed wrote:

Zimmy Zeta wrote:

I think almost everyone in here started the game with mining, because the mechanics are the easiest to understand for newbies. Right now those miners are hunted down in highsec- and will be greeted with even more fire and death should they dare to put their noses into lowsec (yeah, gatecamps can be easily avoided...unless you are a newbie and have no clue how to do it).

I don't see you as "scum".


I do, you're ruining my ISK/hour Bear

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Quartzlight Evenstar Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Operations
#62 - 2012-06-01 20:26:45 UTC
Spikeflach wrote:


Also, Destroying other ships and structures does not equal complete and utter disbanding of an alliance.


Indeed. To complete the job would entail the humiliation of the entire CFC itself. But, that was even tried by their own hand back in March at FanFest, to no aveil.

***
Daemon Ceed
Ice Fire Warriors
#63 - 2012-06-01 21:29:47 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
Daemon Ceed wrote:
Lyron-Baktos wrote:
good post. I agree that no consequences really is a turn off here for me. Ganking is not exciting if you do it over and over. Scamming is not exciting if you do it over and over and nothing happens to you if you get caught.

Having very few rules is all fine and dandy unless you have fun breaking them.


It's up to you to dole out the consequences, not NPC's. That's why they call this an MMO and a sandbox. If that turns you off, I suggest you're playing the wrong game. WoW is thataway ------>>>


You missed the point completely missed the point and you don't even know what a sandbox game is. Google is that way --->>>

The OP is right, there is no real consequence in eve and i doesn't make scene that NPC's faction militia would allow capsuleers to attack jita unhindered or that concord forgives criminal activity for killing rats in non CONCORD areas.



Ask BoB if there were consequences for their actions in the earlier days of Eve. Oh wait they are dead. More alliances have been forcibly killed due to vendetta than just about any other driving factor.

The fact that you sit around and mewl about how CCP should protect you instead of getting in a rifter and coming to **** us up is hilarious. If even a quarter of the highsec players in the game decided to come give us what for in a no more complicated ship than a Drake, we would be wiped off the map.

Temporarily anyways.


Precisely. Highsec bears don't understand the meaning of consequence because most anything they do has none at all. When speaking of such things as consequences, these people should be the last one's opening their pie-hole. Mining - no consequence unless your totally AFK/not paying attention/using common sense tactics and get ganked. Missioning/ratting in highsec, zero consequence-free ISK. I know consequences because I've put myself and my ISK in obvious and inherently dangerous sitations. Billion of ISK worth of implants and ships have been risked and in some cases lost. Some of my actions have caused varying levels of blowback, too.

Everything comes full circle if the person wronged has the motivation and charisma to do something about it. Unfortunately for the whiners, there is no implant you can buy that gives you such things. It's all up to you. All you need to do is hop in a ship and blow them up, infiltrate a corp, find a disenfranchised member of an alliance with sufficient roles and you can collapse the most powerful alliances in this game. Bears don't understand the meta-game because they have completely removed themselves from it and tried to turn it into a 1-several player co-op experience. That's not how Eve works, and the sooner you accept this and adapt to it the better you'll feel.
Daemon Ceed
Ice Fire Warriors
#64 - 2012-06-01 21:33:19 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
Daemon Ceed wrote:

Zimmy Zeta wrote:

I think almost everyone in here started the game with mining, because the mechanics are the easiest to understand for newbies. Right now those miners are hunted down in highsec- and will be greeted with even more fire and death should they dare to put their noses into lowsec (yeah, gatecamps can be easily avoided...unless you are a newbie and have no clue how to do it).

I don't see you as "scum".


I do, you're ruining my ISK/hour Bear


I'm just a humble pirate trying to make a living like you. Unfortunately for you, that entails me blowing up/loot/salvaging your ships.

I'm doing Eve a great service by ensuring that a hard working industrialist has a job to go back to in the morning; create more ships for me to blow up.
Quartzlight Evenstar Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Operations
#65 - 2012-06-01 21:35:18 UTC
Daemon Ceed wrote:
Precisely. Highsec bears don't understand the meaning of consequence because most anything they do has none at all.


Welp, the Goons don't understand the meaning of consequences either. They are about to have a game that simply does not exist any longer.

***
Fukushuu Shinaide
The Big Bambu
#66 - 2012-06-01 22:27:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Fukushuu Shinaide
Just as a note. We miners as a generalized whole do fully follow the rule that you should never fly what you can't afford to lose. Sure it's a risky thing to mine. There is a level of fun in dodging gank parties when you see them enter system. YOu know what they want and it's my job to not make it any easier than need be. Sure I've lost stuff that way. To never have lost a ship is to never have played Eve. What challenge is it to sit cloaked at a gate waiting for some fool to fly through? You can grow old and impoverished that way. We mine because there is both money and risk. It's like spearfishing in shark infested waters while dragging a basket of bloody fish behind you. Well...more profitable actually. So next time you're laughing at the guy you just ganked...remember that the tub you trashed is easily replaced by a day or so of heavy industry. Now quit whining about miners and go do something Goonlike. It'll make you feel useful.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#67 - 2012-06-01 22:29:21 UTC
Quartzlight Evenstar Icefluxor wrote:
Daemon Ceed wrote:
Precisely. Highsec bears don't understand the meaning of consequence because most anything they do has none at all.


Welp, the Goons don't understand the meaning of consequences either. They are about to have a game that simply does not exist any longer.


Because ganking never happened in the last 9 years...
Daemon Ceed
Ice Fire Warriors
#68 - 2012-06-01 23:00:01 UTC
Quartzlight Evenstar Icefluxor wrote:
Daemon Ceed wrote:
Precisely. Highsec bears don't understand the meaning of consequence because most anything they do has none at all.


Welp, the Goons don't understand the meaning of consequences either. They are about to have a game that simply does not exist any longer.


LOL. You are so adorable, like the town crier screaming that the world is about to end. Perhaps your world is about to abruptly end when you finally decide to ragequit life after having your 50th Hulk in a month blown up, but Eve will continue on regardless of what the Goons do and do not do, or anyone else for that matter. Until I start seeing significant drops in player logins, it's extremely naive to think that us gankers are having any real impact on who stays or goes. Besides, your a glutton for punishment, a masochist, if you will. We can slap you around as much as we want because your like a co-dependent girlfriend caught in an abusive relationship. Addiction's a b1tch, ain't it?

Besides, you are giving them far too much credence that they can destroy the entire game. But cry moar. Your tears are delicious!
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2012-06-01 23:33:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
Daemon Ceed wrote:

The rest of your statement really makes no sense, whatsoever. People who were involved in the "Burn Jita" campaign were blown up by Concord and Militia police when they went GCC, so I don't know what you're talking about.


I didn't make myself clear earlier... I have no problem with suicide ganks in theory, i wouldn't mind if there was no high sec in EVE at all. But i agree with the OP that there is no real consequence for committing crimes that are punishable by CONCORD.

In the roleplay sense, it simply doesn't make scene that you can grind your sec status up to make CONCORD forget your crimes. The punishment should mean something and should hurt the criminal if they are caught.

With the Jita thing, i was also thinking in role play terms. If capsuleers start attacking a place like jita, then i think it would be cool if the Caldari Navy stepped in and defended the station, maybe working in a similar way to how incursions work. I also think that CONCORD shouldn't be insta death and Capsuleers should be able to fight and escape them.

I think more dynamic game play like this and more logical game mechanics is what eve needs.

Maybe try reading the OP again and see if you can see it from that perspective...

SmilingVagrant wrote:

Ask BoB if there were consequences for their actions in the earlier days of Eve. Oh wait they are dead. More alliances have been forcibly killed due to vendetta than just about any other driving factor.

The fact that you sit around and mewl about how CCP should protect you instead of getting in a rifter and coming to **** us up is hilarious. If even a quarter of the highsec players in the game decided to come give us what for in a no more complicated ship than a Drake, we would be wiped off the map.

Temporarily anyways.


We are not talking about alliance warfare here. We are talking about how the game mechanics react to player actions.

I couldn't careless about the gankers. I think it's kind of pathetic that you get your kicks from ganking a miner knowing that there is next to nothing he can do to defend himself but if that's how you want to spend your game time, i guess it's good that eve lets you do it.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Daemon Ceed
Ice Fire Warriors
#70 - 2012-06-02 01:04:31 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:


I didn't make myself clear earlier... I have no problem with suicide ganks in theory, i wouldn't mind if there was no high sec in EVE at all. But i agree with the OP that there is no real consequence for committing crimes that are punishable by CONCORD.


You've obviously never had to grind your way back up from -10, or even -5 for that matter. It's takes FOREVER and is the worst thing you could ever wish on a person.

Rek Seven wrote:

In the roleplay sense, it simply doesn't make scene that you can grind your sec status up to make CONCORD forget your crimes. The punishment should mean something and should hurt the criminal if they are caught.


By that logic you believe in giving people life sentences for the destruction of property? If I blew up your car, I expect to have to pay some time, but I expect to be forgiven of my crimes after a period of penance, hence ratting.

Rek Seven wrote:

With the Jita thing, i was also thinking in role play terms. If capsuleers start attacking a place like jita, then i think it would be cool if the Caldari Navy stepped in and defended the station, maybe working in a similar way to how incursions work. I also think that CONCORD shouldn't be insta death and Capsuleers should be able to fight and escape them.

I think more dynamic game play like this and more logical game mechanics is what eve needs.


And how is that emergent gameplay if the NPC's are doing all the hard work? That might work in a game like WoW, but in Eve it's up to players to defend that which they hold dear. Now, if "Burn Jita" was aimed at destroying the staton, Jita 4-4, ofc Concord and the Navy would come to defend it. Instead, they were shooting players...hence PVP.

Your ideas are neither dynamic, nor emergent.


Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2012-06-02 10:52:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
^ man, you are hard work aren't you. just arguing for the sake of it. This is a discussion and i was simply expressing an opinion.

i never said you should get a life sentence for committing crimes. So i'm not sure what you are banging on about there.

Maybe try thinking outside the box a bit instead of coming across as a small minded moron whenever someone has an opinion different to your own.

I bet you think the bounty mechanic is perfect to...

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#72 - 2012-06-02 11:02:13 UTC
Daemon Ceed wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:


I didn't make myself clear earlier... I have no problem with suicide ganks in theory, i wouldn't mind if there was no high sec in EVE at all. But i agree with the OP that there is no real consequence for committing crimes that are punishable by CONCORD.


You've obviously never had to grind your way back up from -10, or even -5 for that matter. It's takes FOREVER and is the worst thing you could ever wish on a person.






Should just point out here that people who are -10 are still able to gank in high sec space, so lets not start whining about having to grind standings eh?

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2012-06-02 11:04:28 UTC
Daemon Ceed wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
In the roleplay sense, it simply doesn't make scene that you can grind your sec status up to make CONCORD forget your crimes. The punishment should mean something and should hurt the criminal if they are caught.

By that logic you believe in giving people life sentences for the destruction of property? If I blew up your car, I expect to have to pay some time, but I expect to be forgiven of my crimes after a period of penance, hence ratting.

I wouldn't go so far as to say "life sentences", but it does make sense that if you go as far down as -10, you are clearly someone who is Not Desirable in empire space.

If I were you, I wouldn't be surprised if CCP were to do some modifications to the crimewatch rules (much like when they made changes to concord when players started abusing the old mechanics to avoid/tank concord etc) and make it so you're not welcome in hisec space at all, be it in a ship or as a pod. Do your penance and grind up your security status again and they'd let you back in again, however.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#74 - 2012-06-02 11:05:17 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
^ man, you are hard work aren't you. just arguing for the sake of it. This is a discussion and i was simply expressing an opinion.

i never said you should get a life sentence for committing crimes. So i'm not sure what you are banging on about there.

Maybe try thinking outside the box a bit instead of coming across as a small minded moron whenever someone has an opinion different to your own.

I bet you think the bounty mechanic is perfect to...


Perhaps you should think inside the box and fit a tank to your ships.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2012-06-02 11:07:42 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
^ man, you are hard work aren't you. just arguing for the sake of it. This is a discussion and i was simply expressing an opinion.

i never said you should get a life sentence for committing crimes. So i'm not sure what you are banging on about there.

Maybe try thinking outside the box a bit instead of coming across as a small minded moron whenever someone has an opinion different to your own.

I bet you think the bounty mechanic is perfect to...


Perhaps you should think inside the box and fit a tank to your ships.


My proteus is pretty well tanked thanks... Oh you though i was someone that got ganked... Maybe read more.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...