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Removing Local is only part of the solution
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Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#121 - 2012-05-26 13:55:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Caliph Muhammed
Jebediah MacAhab Dallocort wrote:
Caliph Muhammed wrote:


You haven't picked apart anything. Kill history shows experience and competence of which you currently lack. Though again in all fairness everyone loses their first few fights.

That's the thing: I didn't say I picked apart those arguments. Maybe it's because I happened to read the thread first and found a few valid arguments first, hmm? Arguments made by someone with a "valid" kill history?



Everyone of my kills are verified. You just work on getting that first kill mmkay? And it you're alt poasting work on letting your nuts hang because I speak freely under my main. It would be far greater in number if solo pvp weren't the snoozefest it is, and the same wartime zero losses ive had over the last 40 kills will continue right along that same path. You wanna know why? Because its impossible to die in EVE unless you absolutely choose to. And that my gnubby pubby friend is why local needs to go.

Wormholes are the exception but only because of a lack of local chat.
Jebediah MacAhab Dallocort
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#122 - 2012-05-26 13:57:36 UTC
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
Jebediah MacAhab Dallocort wrote:
Caliph Muhammed wrote:


You haven't picked apart anything. Kill history shows experience and competence of which you currently lack. Though again in all fairness everyone loses their first few fights.

That's the thing: I didn't say I picked apart those arguments. Maybe it's because I happened to read the thread first and found a few valid arguments first, hmm? Arguments made by someone with a "valid" kill history?



Everyone of my kills are verified. You just work on getting that first kill mmkay? And it your alt poasting work on letting your nuts hang because I speak freely under my main.

Again, nobody ******* cares about the length of your wang your kills on a video game. I already know I suck, it's why I have a lossboard.

How to Improve Quality Assurance at CCP

Professional Programmer, DBA, Game Developer and Systems Analyst
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#123 - 2012-05-26 13:58:48 UTC
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
And in spite of all the nuances of hisec im still able to come out on top. Zim, i'd be just fine in nullsec. Im not there because when I go i'm leading and 12 people arent declaring sovereignty. You don't build a null sec corp recruiting in null where everyone is already in another alliance or corp. Its much more productive to operate in the realm where the majority and the unaffiliated reside.

Yes, I'm sure your 3 vs 1 killmails against people who most likely aren't even aware there's a war on means you're highly qualified to talk about nullsec mechanics changes.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#124 - 2012-05-26 14:02:00 UTC
Selinate wrote:
Local needs to be removed in order for the purpose of the cov ops cloak to be realized. The whole point of a cov ops cloak is to go about undetected.

Without the ability to go undetected, as you are in WH's, the cov ops cloak is meh.


i too wish to be absolutely undetectable because I trained Cloaking IV

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
bongsmoke
Visine Red
420 Chronicles of EvE
#125 - 2012-05-26 14:02:13 UTC
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
Jebediah MacAhab Dallocort wrote:
Caliph Muhammed wrote:


You haven't picked apart anything. Kill history shows experience and competence of which you currently lack. Though again in all fairness everyone loses their first few fights.

That's the thing: I didn't say I picked apart those arguments. Maybe it's because I happened to read the thread first and found a few valid arguments first, hmm? Arguments made by someone with a "valid" kill history?



Everyone of my kills are verified. You just work on getting that first kill mmkay? And it you're alt poasting work on letting your nuts hang because I speak freely under my main. It would be far greater in number if solo pvp weren't the snoozefest it is, and the same wartime zero losses ive had over the last 40 kills will continue right along that same path. You wanna know why? Because its impossible to die in EVE unless you absolutely choose to. And thats my gnubby pubby friend is why local needs to go.



Keep riding that short bus bro, if you think local needs to go, your not the pvp'er you think you are.
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#126 - 2012-05-26 14:03:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Caliph Muhammed
Lord Zim wrote:
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
And in spite of all the nuances of hisec im still able to come out on top. Zim, i'd be just fine in nullsec. Im not there because when I go i'm leading and 12 people arent declaring sovereignty. You don't build a null sec corp recruiting in null where everyone is already in another alliance or corp. Its much more productive to operate in the realm where the majority and the unaffiliated reside.

Yes, I'm sure your 3 vs 1 killmails against people who most likely aren't even aware there's a war on means you're highly qualified to talk about nullsec mechanics changes.


Yes im sure our 5 man versus 50 man russian blob corp was so unjust. Just like your 8000 man, dev celebrity toting, supported by a infrastructure outside of EVE alliance.

Theres nothing complicated about nullsec other than the layer of bullshi.t and politics used to keep the same powerblocks in power. A lack of local would make them have to actually defend their space instead of pretending that all of high sec is somehow fail because they don't dedicate their entire free life into metagaming using every available resource, devs included, into winning EVE.

The same meta you accuse me of is the same exact one that your alliance uses to dominate EVE. And thats fine, just don't be hypocritical about it.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#127 - 2012-05-26 14:10:08 UTC
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
A lack of local would make them have to actually defend their space


you seem to think that removing local would somehow be beneficial to small alliances

hint: who can devote more resources to keeping space defended, a small alliance of 200 or a gigantic powerbloc?

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
bongsmoke
Visine Red
420 Chronicles of EvE
#128 - 2012-05-26 14:13:37 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
A lack of local would make them have to actually defend their space


you seem to think that removing local would somehow be beneficial to small alliances

hint: who can devote more resources to keeping space defended, a small alliance of 200 or a gigantic powerbloc?


Cant believe im actually agreeing with a goon, but alas this.
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#129 - 2012-05-26 14:13:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Caliph Muhammed
Richard Desturned wrote:
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
A lack of local would make them have to actually defend their space


you seem to think that removing local would somehow be beneficial to small alliances

hint: who can devote more resources to keeping space defended, a small alliance of 200 or a gigantic powerbloc?


It would be beneficial to all. I argue for the sake of the game and making it compelling and worthwhile to devote time and energy into. Its never for self benefit. Well, not in the way thats exclusive to self. Local kills almost every worthwhile feature in EVE in all secs. I argue only from that perspective. And i'm not a goon hater either, actually quite the opposite, but that doesn't change my opinion on local.

If I had 8000 dedicated players we'd burn Jita down once per week.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#130 - 2012-05-26 14:23:32 UTC
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
Yes im sure our 5 man at the time versus 50 man russian blob corp was so unjust. Just like your 8000 man, dev celebrity toting, supported by a infrastructure outside of EVE alliance.

And I'm sure most of your kills were standup fights and not quick ganks on station or in missions, far away from the rest of their ... uh, blob. Because 50 in corp means 50 are online, all day erryday.

Caliph Muhammed wrote:
Theres nothing complicated about nullsec other than the layer of bullshi.t and politics used to keep the same powerblocks in power because a lack of local would make them have to actually "gasp" defend their space instead of pretending that all of high sec is somehow fail because they don't dedicate their entire free life into metagaming using every available resource, devs included, into winning EVE.

I'm pretty certain that we wouldn't have to defend anything even a lick more than we do now if local were removed.

Caliph Muhammed wrote:
The same meta you accuse me of is the same exact one that your alliance uses to dominate EVE. And thats fine, just don't be hypocritical about it.

Actually, that's not what I was implying. I'm sure you latched on to the "3 vs 1" part, but what I was implying was that you were counting on people either not noticing there was a war on, or local being so full that you effectively hide in the local list, so you could gank people with absolutely no risk to yourself. Which is exactly why you want local to be removed in nullsec, so you can go do the same thing there.

Caliph Muhammed wrote:
It would be beneficial to all.

Nope, it would be beneficial to gankers who need crutches, and that's about as far as the benefits package goes, and you know this.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#131 - 2012-05-26 14:34:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Caliph Muhammed
Thats the thing Zim, the only way to get a kill is by "hoping" they don't notice your name in local. Or that they don't use a neutral scout. Le Sigh.

Im trying really hard to be polite here. Pull your fingers out of your ears, stop stamping your feet. Read and think. Okay?
LittleTerror
Stygian Systems
#132 - 2012-05-26 14:42:51 UTC
They should definately remove the local list but keep the local count as an indicator, when you then jump into a new system in low/nullsec you will only know how many but not who it is.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#133 - 2012-05-26 14:53:17 UTC
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
Thats the thing Zim, the only way to get a kill is by "hoping" they don't notice your name in local. Or that they don't use a neutral scout. Le Sigh.

And I see reports of people getting ganked in deklein every single day, so I'd say it sounds like it's nicely balanced as it is right now.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
cpu939
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#134 - 2012-05-26 17:37:26 UTC
Caliph Muhammed i have read most of your posts then i did as you have i looked at eve-kill when you come out to low or null to pvp you might have a clue high sec war decs not really pvp
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#135 - 2012-05-26 17:41:06 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Nope, it would be beneficial to gankers who need crutches, and that's about as far as the benefits package goes, and you know this.

Yep, I guess gankers need crutches.

Let me get my SB alt and then hand me those crutches, will ya.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#136 - 2012-05-26 18:25:00 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
Thats the thing Zim, the only way to get a kill is by "hoping" they don't notice your name in local. Or that they don't use a neutral scout. Le Sigh.

And I see reports of people getting ganked in deklein every single day, so I'd say it sounds like it's nicely balanced as it is right now.

An obvious lie, haven't you seen all the eve-o threads informing us that nobody has ever died to hostiles in 0.0 because jump bridges and local and sov make it 100% safe and that highsec is where the hardcore dangerous elite PvP is?

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
leich
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#137 - 2012-05-26 18:35:16 UTC
There is no issue with local.

The issue is that all PVE has been moved out of belts and into hidden plex's.

This means its harder for a roaming gang to find targets because they see you in local and have quiet a while to react even with awsome probers in your gang.

Solution is to remove plex and make the belts better.

This way when i jump into a system i see people in local 1 dscan and im on route to you belt (Hopefully :P)

The whole remove local is a real mute point to me as it isnt the issue in the first place.
malcovas Henderson
THoF
#138 - 2012-05-26 19:02:49 UTC  |  Edited by: malcovas Henderson
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
Thats the thing Zim, the only way to get a kill is by "hoping" they don't notice your name in local. Or that they don't use a neutral scout. Le Sigh.

Im trying really hard to be polite here. Pull your fingers out of your ears, stop stamping your feet. Read and think. Okay?



You can not seriously be this niave.

Lets look at 1 simple scenerio, with local Removed.

You fly in with your stealthy. An alt I might add. You fly around looking for potential prey. If you had done your homework, you'd already have gathered this intel, before you even entered. You then find a safe spot, and log off. Next or a couple of days later, you log back on, cloak up, warp to whereever someone is. get to 10km. uncloak and drop a cyno.

Then add, everyone in your fleet do this, 1 system per member. A 50+ fleet would reap havoc.

I am sorry, anything that has literally no counter does not belong in EVE. This one simple scenerio, Null/low would empty faster than a pool with a stool.


o7


Edit: Spelling
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#139 - 2012-05-26 19:18:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Caliph Muhammed
malcovas Henderson wrote:
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
Thats the thing Zim, the only way to get a kill is by "hoping" they don't notice your name in local. Or that they don't use a neutral scout. Le Sigh.

Im trying really hard to be polite here. Pull your fingers out of your ears, stop stamping your feet. Read and think. Okay?



You can not seriously be this niave.

Lets look at 1 simple scenerio, with local Removed.

You fly in with your stealthy. An alt I might add. You fly around looking for potential prey. If you had done your homework, you'd already have gathered this intel, before you even entered. You then find a safe spot, and log off. Next or a couple of days later, you log back on, cloak up, warp to whereever someone is. get to 10km. uncloak and drop a cyno.

Then add, everyone in your fleet do this, 1 system per member. A 50+ fleet would reap havoc.

I am sorry, anything that has literally no counter does not belong in EVE. This one simple scenerio, Null/low would empty faster than a pool with a stool.


o7

Edit: Spelling


Yeah people would die to proper planning and preparation. Makes sense. Subs would be endless in number. Tens of millions!
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#140 - 2012-05-26 19:28:37 UTC
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
Yeah people would die to proper planning and preparation. Makes sense. Subs would be endless in number. Tens of millions!

Don't even need "proper planning and preparation" to kill ratters in nullsec as it is right now, as is evidenced by ratting ships going pop all the time.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat