These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

First Impression of Faction Warfare -- post inferno patch

First post
Author
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#81 - 2012-05-25 19:07:46 UTC
BolsterBomb wrote:
Because your opinion was wrong and CCP was right. Its that simple. For every voice yelling no there was a voice yelling yes.

No there really wasn't. I have been very involved in each and every FW thread since the beginning and have started several of my own and the only "request" for total lockout came from null dwellers. They may have had an alt in FW, but really no way of knowing so can't and won't base perception on that.
BolsterBomb wrote:
The yes's won and it is working properly. Your job is to adapt now.....but from the sounds of it there are a bunch of bitter vets that didnt even read the patch notes or if they did care about acting on it before the lockout.

No longer involved in FW, so I did act by using the only tool available to me .. you see, I do not have a horde of alts to handle logistics and arrange for rehips in 'hostile' systems like you probably do.
BolsterBomb wrote:
I am just glad that others see the light and the few people like yourself are just stuck in the mud refusing to leave. It IS a case of bitter vet.

Oh I am out of the mud, first time in four years of fighting an uphill battle against bugs, exploits and imbalances I am free of CCPs stupidity (as pertains to FW).
X Gallentius wrote:
...December expansion was awesome - we saw a significant upswing in plex fighting. This patch has increased plex fighting even more.

No you saw station/gate games and gank squads move to plexes .. there is a distinct difference. The volume of fights remained constant past December, locations shifted that is all .. good thing to be sure as plex fights are preferable to just about anything else in Eve.
Jones Bones
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#82 - 2012-05-25 19:09:17 UTC
Honestly, you guys knew station lockouts were coming weeks ago. The fact that you didn't take the necessary precautions speaks volumes.
BolsterBomb
Perkone
Caldari State
#83 - 2012-05-25 19:16:31 UTC
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
BolsterBomb wrote:
Because your opinion was wrong and CCP was right. Its that simple. For every voice yelling no there was a voice yelling yes.

No there really wasn't. I have been very involved in each and every FW thread since the beginning and have started several of my own and the only "request" for total lockout came from null dwellers. They may have had an alt in FW, but really no way of knowing so can't and won't base perception on that.
BolsterBomb wrote:
The yes's won and it is working properly. Your job is to adapt now.....but from the sounds of it there are a bunch of bitter vets that didnt even read the patch notes or if they did care about acting on it before the lockout.

No longer involved in FW, so I did act by using the only tool available to me .. you see, I do not have a horde of alts to handle logistics and arrange for rehips in 'hostile' systems like you probably do.
BolsterBomb wrote:
I am just glad that others see the light and the few people like yourself are just stuck in the mud refusing to leave. It IS a case of bitter vet.

Oh I am out of the mud, first time in four years of fighting an uphill battle against bugs, exploits and imbalances I am free of CCPs stupidity (as pertains to FW).
X Gallentius wrote:
...December expansion was awesome - we saw a significant upswing in plex fighting. This patch has increased plex fighting even more.

No you saw station/gate games and gank squads move to plexes .. there is a distinct difference. The volume of fights remained constant past December, locations shifted that is all .. good thing to be sure as plex fights are preferable to just about anything else in Eve.



Kodos for taking action and leaving.....then why are you here complaining?

I do NOT have a single alt. I have been able to move all my stuff around from LS to HS or moving my items to a safe place. Yes it took time and I did it. I was able to move over 20 ships and 100k m3 of stuff out of LS until I knew the implications.

Like I said Black Frog and a few hours will do the trick. If your living in LS you should have a cloaky hauler anyway (makes life easy)

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation

Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#84 - 2012-05-25 19:21:33 UTC
Jones Bones wrote:
Honestly, you guys knew station lockouts were coming weeks ago. The fact that you didn't take the necessary precautions speaks volumes.


with all the other changes and the sides as uneven at the time, we kinda thought they were joking also - no one knew weather a system reset would happen too.

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.

Ahazu Sagam
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#85 - 2012-05-25 19:39:07 UTC
I had a short look at KB's and i noticed this:

number of kill's increased since the change, but isk destroyed dropped a lot

might be random or a trend, future will show it.
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#86 - 2012-05-25 19:41:57 UTC
Jones Bones wrote:
Honestly, you guys knew station lockouts were coming weeks ago. The fact that you didn't take the necessary precautions speaks volumes.


Most of us all got our stuff out but there was also a little confusion from the test server. Originally it was set up so you couldn't dock in any controlled systems, then later it was possible to dock in your Militia's NPC stations even if the other side controlled the system.

Jones Bones
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#87 - 2012-05-25 19:50:39 UTC
Muad 'dib wrote:

with all the other changes and the sides as uneven at the time, we kinda thought they were joking also - no one knew weather a system reset would happen too.


From the May 9th Dev Blog:

Quote:
Stations denying docking

As such, with Inferno, all stations within a low-security Factional Warfare system will now deny docking to any factional enemy (neutrals will remain unaffected). That means restricting any kind of service or agent access to all pilots in opposing militias.


I wasn't even in FW at the time and I saw this coming.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#88 - 2012-05-25 19:53:45 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Of course your side of the war is not 59 systems to 11 so you don't understand, but keep pretending amarr are just "nitpicking."
I just want to emphasize that I am sayin YOU are nitpicking, not the Amarr. Big smile There are several Amarr corporations still based in low sec (Kamela, Sahtogas), as well as the hordes of Amarr in Eggelhende. It doesn't look like they will e kicked out any time soon.



Look at the thread again. Just about everyone from Amarr is more tempered in their view of this expansion. Several have posted here.

I think on the whole we view it favorably but we aren'yt just a bunch of foaming CCP cheerleaders like the minmatar.

As for me the big problem with this expansion is the station lockouts. Amarr were pretty much the only ones majory effected by this change and I think by an large the view is it is a bad change.

But I really don't claim to speak for amarr. So I will just say in my first impression of this expansion I got allot of decent pvp but I missed out on allot due to the station lock out. For me it is a big problem with this expansion. I will continue to explain why it sucks to the extent people say they don't understand why it sucks.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
#89 - 2012-05-25 20:00:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Kuehnelt
Salicaz wrote:
The threat of lock out is ok, gives you something to fight for.


Of non-home systems, warzone control is what you're fighting for. Home systems you'd be fighting for even without the threat of lockout. The current effects of station lockout are

1. That you but not your enemies can dock and repair in your space, and vice-versa.

2. That losing your ship in enemy space is more dangerous than previously, as you can't just grab a rookie ship to fly home in.

3. That basing yourself in enemy space and then conquering it is a dead tactic. But this was used so often in the past, it's just going to be revived as POS warfare. Which might be preferable.

4. That Amarr missioners don't have access to some agents. But before you praise that, I'd argue that any anti-carebear benefits are overshadowed by the LP multiplier.

There are so many negative things you can say about station lockout that I've probably forgotten about several points that I made already in that other thread. And the positive things that people keep saying remain just

1. (From people outside of FW) LOL IT JUST MAKE SENS

2. (From CCP Ytterbium and others) There needs to be a downside, you need a reason to defend, I've forgotten about warzone control...

3. (EDIT:) I was not aware that there have been 'front lines' with heavier conflict all this time, because I was too busy gatecamping in Eszur.

But actually, apart from still feeling compelled to point out that these 'positive things' are pretty ****, I think station lockout is an OK mechanic in the new system. For these reasons:

1. FW space no longer feels like 'lowsec+'. If you're in Metropolis, you're not in a lowsec area that Minmatar happen to control but whatev'; you're deep in enemy space.

2. While LP payouts give attackers the clearest incentives (take plex, receive bacon), station lockout gives defenders actual advantages to bring to plex fights. This and warzone control are what are really helping to encourage defense, not "oh no I'll lose my ships", which only encourages moving ships.

3. There's more of a role for logistics, remote reppers on non-logistics, active tank. There's now such a thing as a "I plan to be behind enemy lines for a good while" fit. There are more ways that less-skilled players can support an op.

4. It's kinda satisfying that the enemy can't dock in your station. (Future thread title: ******* NEUTRAL BOOSTERS, GET OUT OF MY STATION.)
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#90 - 2012-05-25 20:00:32 UTC
Jones Bones wrote:
Muad 'dib wrote:

with all the other changes and the sides as uneven at the time, we kinda thought they were joking also - no one knew weather a system reset would happen too.


From the May 9th Dev Blog:

Quote:
Stations denying docking

As such, with Inferno, all stations within a low-security Factional Warfare system will now deny docking to any factional enemy (neutrals will remain unaffected). That means restricting any kind of service or agent access to all pilots in opposing militias.


I wasn't even in FW at the time and I saw this coming.



I don't think that is much time to move 2 years worth of fit ships boosters and mods that I had planted. Moreover, I don't think we ever got an answer on whether they would reset sov. (I could be wrong on this though)

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

BolsterBomb
Perkone
Caldari State
#91 - 2012-05-25 20:14:54 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Jones Bones wrote:
Muad 'dib wrote:

with all the other changes and the sides as uneven at the time, we kinda thought they were joking also - no one knew weather a system reset would happen too.


From the May 9th Dev Blog:

Quote:
Stations denying docking

As such, with Inferno, all stations within a low-security Factional Warfare system will now deny docking to any factional enemy (neutrals will remain unaffected). That means restricting any kind of service or agent access to all pilots in opposing militias.


I wasn't even in FW at the time and I saw this coming.



I don't think that is much time to move 2 years worth of fit ships boosters and mods that I had planted. Moreover, I don't think we ever got an answer on whether they would reset sov. (I could be wrong on this though)



Yes you did I specifacclly asked about it in the patch thread by CCP and was answered by CCP. I then posted another thread here saying no sov reset.

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation

Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
#92 - 2012-05-25 20:22:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Kuehnelt
BolsterBomb wrote:
Yes you did I specifacclly asked about it in the patch thread by CCP and was answered by CCP. I then posted another thread here saying no sov reset.


Tinfoil oracle sez that while Hans was saying "oh gosh, I sure hope we get a reset. I'll argue this strongly to the CCP. Everyone sit on your hands and wait for me to work on this for you, OK?", he was also saying "**** no we're not getting a reset. Charge!", and also "Wow, CCP Ytterbium, I'm just blown away by your very first objection to the idea of a reset. You're so right. I'll just have to convey the bad news :("

Implementing the 5x change earlier was still... ah, I don't care anymore. The damage is done.
Garr Earthbender
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#93 - 2012-05-25 20:28:40 UTC
After reading all 5 pages, and reading the other FW threadnaught, I have come to a conclusion.

Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
This is simply delicious.

*WORKING AS INTENDED*

-Scissors is overpowered, rock is fine. -Paper

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#94 - 2012-05-25 20:57:05 UTC
Capitol One wrote:
Cearain wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:


FYI Eggelhende is out of the war zone. So those hordes have already been kicked out. As for the others I guess it will depend on what you mean by "anytime soon."
Do any players based in Kamela and Sahtogas care to respond to this post? How long until you guys think you'll get kicked?

And it seems to me that Eggelhende is a great place to base out of. My corp did so last year and had no trouble reshipping since it's right next to the front lines of the fighting.



Sadly I anticipate both are kicked out in the next 4 months. Kamela has a better chance but I think the future is looking dim.

Eggelhende is close unless of course the kourm auga gate is camped. Its a regional gate but if you are trying to come back to the fight in anything larger than a dessie you may not make it back. The other way takes about 8 jumps.



What part of "No Surrender, No Retreat!" did you not understand?

Take your defeatist attitude somewhere else please.

If we are to prevail, then we should believe it, instead of giving up.
This last week before patch has shown that the Amarr are more than capable of fighting back, despite being horrendously outnumbered. And while you were busy running to the hills with your stuffz I was out there fighting for my home and that of my allies.

I can only hope you find the will to do the same.

- Capitol One



I guess I just don't take the game as seriously as you do. I am not really the "rah rah" type.

We were pretty seriously outmanned in the system we were basing out of, and I don't really play that often to make much of a difference. Real life and that stuff that keeps me from going to sov null, or playing eve that way. I don't think any amount of positive thinking would have changed that.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#95 - 2012-05-25 21:12:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
BolsterBomb wrote:
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
BolsterBomb wrote:
...It was different when CCP was asking for feedback but at this point all the whining is ********. Nuff Said...

When did they? As I recall practically all members of FW wanted restrictions on what can be done in stations or a reshuffle of stations + lockouts so that it was possible to actually stay in FW land when the inevitable snowball hit.

This blanket lockout, when the rumours started just prior to Fanfest, had me whoring the forums in a big way as it is quite literally game-breaking. They had a "roundtable" (someone give CCP a dictionary so they can look the word up) at FF which as it turns out was nothing more than a presentation (as I expected given their knowledge of FW) and changes were made pretty much exactly as they were shown way back then.

PS: Notice how I no longer solely blame CCP Sound Fail. Came to the realisation that for a moronic concept of lock-outs in low-sec the entire corporation must be in the wrong .. or someone would have shouted foul surely! Lol



Because your opinion was wrong and CCP was right. Its that simple.


Right for whom? CCP has spent so much time in null sec its not surprising that there are allot of players who like these changes. Because yes this change fits well for the "hard core" htfu null sec crowd mentality.


Many of the more casual players who gravitated toward faction war saw it's huge potential to draw in lots of players to eve. And by huge I mean doubling subscription numbers. Many of them are less than thrilled with the station lock out.

We will have to see how much this is going to increase subscriptions and peak user. I predict it will be an average expansion increase in subs but nothing close to what an overhaul of Faction war could bring.

Is this change really going to add space to the eve sandbox or just shift sand from one end to another? That remains to be seen. People like myself see this as taking away space. What used to be a great way for casual players to get fun small scale pvp has "grown up" as hans would say. Grown up to be like another, already existing, option.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Vordak Kallager
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#96 - 2012-05-25 22:04:52 UTC
The current system might not be the absolute ideal, but it is a) certainly a lot better than it used to be and b) the station lock out might be inconvenient for some people, but it doesn't break the faction warfare system.

Sa souvraya niende misain ye.

X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#97 - 2012-05-25 22:28:13 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
FYI, logged in this afternoon... picked up ship in Nenna. Straight away Fight No. 1:
5 Thoraxes in Medium Plex

Then we started moving to Tama . Low and behold, a nano-Zealot wanted to engage on gate in Hikk (under protection of gate guns). (He had a Gila and another buddy who chickened out)

Well, we might as well keep going. A Loki wanted the same sort of protection in Kedama on the Hirri gate:
Loki+Purifier, plus there was another fight we weren't involved in.

After losing drones to gate guns I dock up in Nisuwa and added to the wealth of the excellent fellow in SoTF who sells drones on market, and then head back to Nenna and our boys point a Drake.

We move to Aivonen to run some guys out of a plex, but there's another Drake.

Nonstop action all within an hour. Greatest expansion ever!
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#98 - 2012-05-25 22:32:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Veshta Yoshida
Caveat: Just had a handful of cask ales, so ...
BolsterBomb wrote:
.....then why are you here complaining?

Because I "grew up" in FW, having spent a few years in null I left the horrendous blobs and meta-gaming it was becoming behind to learn real pew, have fun and RP my heart out. And it was glorious for about nine months .. then CCP lost interest, pulled all staff and only did routine maintenance on what was a core feature of an entire expansion.
FW still has tremendous potential .. hence why I am still here complaining/bitching/moaning/whining/whatever.
Vordak Kallager wrote:
The current system might not be the absolute ideal, but it is a) certainly a lot better than it used to be and b) the station lock out might be inconvenient for some people, but it doesn't break the faction warfare system.

You willing to put ISK on that prediction (assuming that militias don't become blob fests with hundreds more actives per side)?

FW as it has been will never be back I fear. The casual nature and the near constant solo/small gang action died with the December plex-spam change .. this will just be last nail. Would have been vastly different had they done the hard bit (ie. balance) beforehand but 'meh'.

If they ever do the hard bit (they didn't even officially ask for balancing feedback until after patch was set in stone for fucks sake!) I will be back .. until then I'll trade metagaming Exploit/Farm-Ville for just about anything Big smile
Capitol One
Blue Canary
Watch This
#99 - 2012-05-25 22:33:48 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Capitol One wrote:
Cearain wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:


FYI Eggelhende is out of the war zone. So those hordes have already been kicked out. As for the others I guess it will depend on what you mean by "anytime soon."
Do any players based in Kamela and Sahtogas care to respond to this post? How long until you guys think you'll get kicked?

And it seems to me that Eggelhende is a great place to base out of. My corp did so last year and had no trouble reshipping since it's right next to the front lines of the fighting.



Sadly I anticipate both are kicked out in the next 4 months. Kamela has a better chance but I think the future is looking dim.

Eggelhende is close unless of course the kourm auga gate is camped. Its a regional gate but if you are trying to come back to the fight in anything larger than a dessie you may not make it back. The other way takes about 8 jumps.



What part of "No Surrender, No Retreat!" did you not understand?

Take your defeatist attitude somewhere else please.

If we are to prevail, then we should believe it, instead of giving up.
This last week before patch has shown that the Amarr are more than capable of fighting back, despite being horrendously outnumbered. And while you were busy running to the hills with your stuffz I was out there fighting for my home and that of my allies.

I can only hope you find the will to do the same.

- Capitol One



I guess I just don't take the game as seriously as you do. I am not really the "rah rah" type.

We were pretty seriously outmanned in the system we were basing out of, and I don't really play that often to make much of a difference. Real life and that stuff that keeps me from going to sov null, or playing eve that way. I don't think any amount of positive thinking would have changed that.



To each their own, you just seemed to me like you cared a great deal, with how much you lamented over our "defeat and imminent destruction/eviction". Also, I'd like to think it was our [Amarr] beliefs and spirit that made us prevail where others would've fallen :)

I hope after you've rejuvenated and properly gotten your assets safe that you may continue sending the Minmatar to their "capsuley graves", so to speak.

Amarr Victor!

- Capitol One
Vordak Kallager
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#100 - 2012-05-26 00:08:20 UTC
Capitol One wrote:
Stuff


The right attitude.

Veshta Yoshida wrote:
Stuff


The wrong attitude.

Sa souvraya niende misain ye.