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EVE Alliance Tournament Discussion

 
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HYDRA / PL / OUTBREAK

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Just a side dish
Outspoken Alliance
#21 - 2012-05-25 01:34:16 UTC
I think they should allow one of the teams in. But that team should be Outbreak. because they clearly won last year before they stopped shooting and self-destructed or whatever.
Suitonia
Order of the Red Kestrel
#22 - 2012-05-25 02:48:18 UTC
DHB WildCat wrote:
Wow there is a lot of blatant fear in here. Am I the only one that wants to actually fight the best out there...... There is way too much people just wanting to win and not enough wanting a challenge!


DarkSide take Harpy's/Eagles with ECM bonuses seriously m8

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Kaleesa
Pathogen Inc.
#23 - 2012-05-25 03:21:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaleesa
I do think it's a shame that Hydra and Outbreak won't be in this year, because it's always better to fight the best of the best.... However, the rule was made very clear and it was so painfully obvious that it was created SPECIFICALLY for those 2.... No ones wanted a repeat of last years final match, let's face it, that match was an uber anticlimax, I'm happy CCP tried to put and end to it, just unhappy Hydra couldn't find their way to abiding by the rule.
Ashley Judd
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2012-05-25 03:44:43 UTC
CCP has made their call. I won't get in to whether or not is was the right one, or how it was handled.

The real sticking point here is they are forced to make a judgement call on something that is entirely unsupported in game. The tournament in no way reflects the rest of Eve. They are separate entities. CCP doesn't seem to understand their own creation.

If everyone's favorite company was really interested in an epic, competitive tournament with little to no backroom deals and metagaming, they could easily introduce a pvp arena system. Until then, the AT will always remain the butt of e-sport jokes.
LooknSee
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2012-05-25 03:53:11 UTC
Ashley Judd wrote:
CCP has made their call. I won't get in to whether or not is was the right one, or how it was handled.

The real sticking point here is they are forced to make a judgement call on something that is entirely unsupported in game. The tournament in no way reflects the rest of Eve. They are separate entities. CCP doesn't seem to understand their own creation.

If everyone's favorite company was really interested in an epic, competitive tournament with little to no backroom deals and metagaming, they could easily introduce a pvp arena system. Until then, the AT will always remain the butt of e-sport jokes.


No one has said you are one entity. What CCP is saying is that as far as the AT is concerned the two of you are either acting as if you are one entity or giving the perception of the same. There's a difference there. And after the shenanigans last year, whoever is running your teams should have had the common sense to avoid even the remotest suggestion of collusion. They didn't, and now two entire alliances are suffering for it. You can blame CCP all you want, but at the end of the day it was your own leaderships that put you in this position, not CCP.
Kaleesa
Pathogen Inc.
#26 - 2012-05-25 03:59:55 UTC
LooknSee wrote:
Ashley Judd wrote:
CCP has made their call. I won't get in to whether or not is was the right one, or how it was handled.

The real sticking point here is they are forced to make a judgement call on something that is entirely unsupported in game. The tournament in no way reflects the rest of Eve. They are separate entities. CCP doesn't seem to understand their own creation.

If everyone's favorite company was really interested in an epic, competitive tournament with little to no backroom deals and metagaming, they could easily introduce a pvp arena system. Until then, the AT will always remain the butt of e-sport jokes.


No one has said you are one entity. What CCP is saying is that as far as the AT is concerned the two of you are either acting as if you are one entity or giving the perception of the same. There's a difference there. And after the shenanigans last year, whoever is running your teams should have had the common sense to avoid even the remotest suggestion of collusion. They didn't, and now two entire alliances are suffering for it. You can blame CCP all you want, but at the end of the day it was your own leaderships that put you in this position, not CCP.



Well said Matey!
Intigo
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2012-05-25 04:04:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Intigo
Tyrrax Thorrk wrote:
wow I'm sorry I didn't memorize your post, you should really take a chill pill bro


Wow. How can you honestly say that when you've completely ignored the part where we've sent multiple emails to the EVETV email address only to get zero response?

We've done everything in our power to be completely transparent, yet CCP pretends we have not.


LooknSee wrote:
Ashley Judd wrote:
CCP has made their call. I won't get in to whether or not is was the right one, or how it was handled.

The real sticking point here is they are forced to make a judgement call on something that is entirely unsupported in game. The tournament in no way reflects the rest of Eve. They are separate entities. CCP doesn't seem to understand their own creation.

If everyone's favorite company was really interested in an epic, competitive tournament with little to no backroom deals and metagaming, they could easily introduce a pvp arena system. Until then, the AT will always remain the butt of e-sport jokes.


No one has said you are one entity. What CCP is saying is that as far as the AT is concerned the two of you are either acting as if you are one entity or giving the perception of the same. There's a difference there. And after the shenanigans last year, whoever is running your teams should have had the common sense to avoid even the remotest suggestion of collusion. They didn't, and now two entire alliances are suffering for it. You can blame CCP all you want, but at the end of the day it was your own leaderships that put you in this position, not CCP.


The same leadership that reached out to CCP many months ago and trusted in the single response we got from a Senior GM? I am not surprised that the Senior GM & the tournament team was not in contact with one another, but the ONLY response we got from any CCP entity was from that Senior GM despite sending 2 emails to the EVETV address which were completely ignored.

Even though Loxy acknowledged that such emails would be addressed after the signup process was through, they never were. We had one response from a CCP entity to trust in and it was completely ignored by the tournament team, taking out both teams in the process.

hydra provail
LooknSee
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2012-05-25 04:19:31 UTC
Intigo wrote:
The same leadership that reached out to CCP many months ago and trusted in the single response we got from a Senior GM? I am not surprised that the Senior GM & the tournament team was not in contact with one another, but the ONLY response we got from any CCP entity was from that Senior GM despite sending 2 emails to the EVETV address which were completely ignored.

Even though Loxy acknowledged that such emails would be addressed after the signup process was through, they never were. We had one response from a CCP entity to trust in and it was completely ignored by the tournament team, taking out both teams in the process.


Seriously? Unless you're a complete noob you know better (not 'should know better', but definitively 'know better') than to put any faith into a GM response. And regardless of what a GM said, common sense alone should have been enough to tell you guys to avoid any semblance of collusion.

But hey, don't take my word for it--just look at the consequences. As far as CCP ignoring mails, I quite assure you you're nothing special in that regard: they ignored my mails for over a month regarding the fansite program.
Intigo
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2012-05-25 04:21:00 UTC
They may have ignored your emails, but I somehow doubt they banned you from the fansite program after ignoring you even though you sent multiple emails that were transparent in what you wanted to do with your website.

hydra provail
LooknSee
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2012-05-25 04:28:17 UTC
Intigo wrote:
They may have ignored your emails, but I somehow doubt they banned you from the fansite program after ignoring you even though you sent multiple emails that were transparent in what you wanted to do with your website.


They didn't have to; I let the account expire.
Ashley Judd
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2012-05-25 05:02:16 UTC
Please read my post before commenting on it. I said Eve and the Tournament are separate entities. You are, however, correct in assuming Hydra and Outbreak are as well.
Shiroi Okami
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#32 - 2012-05-25 05:38:09 UTC
LooknSee wrote:

Seriously? Unless you're a complete noob you know better (not 'should know better', but definitively 'know better') than to put any faith into a GM response.


This is a whole other problem boiling down to CCP's incompetence, what's irritating is that they are sweeping that little inconvenience under the rug and doing whatever the hell they want irrespective of fact.

My Latest Video: Freestyle III
Raimo
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#33 - 2012-05-25 05:51:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Raimo
DHB WildCat wrote:
I am starting this thread in hopes that maybe it will allow a middle ground to be reached by these teams and CCP. I am inviting every team to share there thoughts and vote about this subject.

I hope that if there is enough support that we will see CCP bend the rules like they did for me and my team that was disbanded a few years ago after the deadline. I believe it worked out for the best and gave the viewers a good show.

My proposal is to allow Outbreak / HYDRA to form a single team, the same for PL / and PL B.

There should be a defending champion at least to defend their title and I would hate to see some the best minds not get into the tourney for a technicality.


I ask kindly to please allow them to reform like you did VOLTRON a few years ago.

Thank you for time.

Wild


Thanks.
Vilan Turrik
The Arctic Factory
#34 - 2012-05-25 06:06:54 UTC
There is no PL B-team bro.

We are completely separate from PL, and they don't want us in their team.

Banning Hydra and Outbreak was common sense, banning waffles was overkill (but understandable from a consistency standpoint).
CoReSol
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2012-05-25 06:12:48 UTC
So basically....

1.) Change rules after multiple e-mails and petitions.

2.) Wait until sign-ups are complete to check petitions.

3.) THEN tell them they are breaking the rules that they had already asked about multiple times before the sign-ups and instantly ban them from competing?

Just trying to clarify here. Seems to me like this should be something forgivable (at least up for discussion between the alliances in question and CCP) since you apparently never gave them ANY response saying they were in the wrong before removing them from the tourney completely.


Can't speak for the other alliances, but I have seen Hydra pvp regularly, as well as in the previous tournaments. One of the best dedicated pvp alliances I have seen in my time playing. Removing them from the competition without warning is just ridiculous.

Hydra, keep up the great pvp.
Lucas Quaan
DEMONS OF THE HIDDEN MIST
TRUTH. HONOUR. LIGHT.
#36 - 2012-05-25 06:37:24 UTC
Duncan Tanner wrote:
Tyrrax Thorrk wrote:
Duncan Tanner wrote:
However it seems that they were very much aware of exactly what we planned to do since we told them and they acknowledged receiving it above but for some reason they needed to wait after Hydra and 0utbreak signed up with separate teams in order to "take action".

If they want each group to stop practicing together completely, then fine, just say so. If they want to do the same thing with us as they did with RvB and have us merge into a single team, then fine, just say so. However, saying nothing to either group when they both reached out to you and then banning them both just doesn't seem right.


Pretty sure it was the tournament team that banned you (sreegs) and they didn't even know about what the GM said to you until it was posted in the thread, ergo they hadn't read any of your correspondence.

Basically you made the mistake of talking to GMs when you shoulda been talking to Loxy or Sreegs (I think PL were talking to Loxy about the whole sniggwaffe not being a b-team thing?)

Anyways I dunno why anyone is surprised by your two teams getting banned, the rule was created specifically for you in the first place ;P


We sent the mail to very same e-mail Loxy told us to send inquiries to after Raivi asked him. We in fact sent multiple mails directly to the CCP tournament team. This is all very clear in the quote I included. He acknowledged that he should have replied to us but was waiting for some reason.

Then you should probably have waited for that reply before doing anything that might result in a ban.

I too think it's a worse tournament without you, but you come off as deliberately wanting to stretch the intent of a rule created to prevent that exact behaviour. Much like going spelunking in Jove space that creates a headache for the organisers who, in essence being volunteers, are going to pick the easy solution.
Suitonia
Order of the Red Kestrel
#37 - 2012-05-25 06:59:57 UTC
Lucas Quaan wrote:
Duncan Tanner wrote:
Tyrrax Thorrk wrote:
Duncan Tanner wrote:
However it seems that they were very much aware of exactly what we planned to do since we told them and they acknowledged receiving it above but for some reason they needed to wait after Hydra and 0utbreak signed up with separate teams in order to "take action".

If they want each group to stop practicing together completely, then fine, just say so. If they want to do the same thing with us as they did with RvB and have us merge into a single team, then fine, just say so. However, saying nothing to either group when they both reached out to you and then banning them both just doesn't seem right.


Pretty sure it was the tournament team that banned you (sreegs) and they didn't even know about what the GM said to you until it was posted in the thread, ergo they hadn't read any of your correspondence.

Basically you made the mistake of talking to GMs when you shoulda been talking to Loxy or Sreegs (I think PL were talking to Loxy about the whole sniggwaffe not being a b-team thing?)

Anyways I dunno why anyone is surprised by your two teams getting banned, the rule was created specifically for you in the first place ;P


We sent the mail to very same e-mail Loxy told us to send inquiries to after Raivi asked him. We in fact sent multiple mails directly to the CCP tournament team. This is all very clear in the quote I included. He acknowledged that he should have replied to us but was waiting for some reason.

Then you should probably have waited for that reply before doing anything that might result in a ban.

I too think it's a worse tournament without you, but you come off as deliberately wanting to stretch the intent of a rule created to prevent that exact behaviour. Much like going spelunking in Jove space that creates a headache for the organisers who, in essence being volunteers, are going to pick the easy solution.


You're trolling for an Eagle with ECM bonuses m8

Contributer to Eve is Easy:  https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos

Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o
Lucas Quaan
DEMONS OF THE HIDDEN MIST
TRUTH. HONOUR. LIGHT.
#38 - 2012-05-25 07:15:14 UTC
Suitonia wrote:
You're trolling for an Eagle with ECM bonuses m8

Do not want.

But I am more pointing out the fact that asking "hey, can we do this?" and then start doing it anyway before receiving an answer is asking for trouble. If you suspect that what you are about to do is disallowed, and in this case there were pretty consistent hints that it would be, you should hold off doing so until it is cleared. Referring to petitions answered by any other than tournament staff does not count either. The "GM XXX said it was ok"-defence has been shown ineffective plenty in the past.
Bubanni
Corus Aerospace
#39 - 2012-05-25 07:45:39 UTC
PL and PL B aren't the same, and thus can't and wont share a team... it would be like saying, eve uni and Hydra should mix a team together.... :) I like waffles

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Spark's
Infinite Regress.
#40 - 2012-05-25 09:15:41 UTC
i think this Hydra and Outbreak situation has been a strong response by CCP to discourage these actions from happening in the future. You have been made an example of as a warning to other teams. If you feel angry at this response, don't watch the tournaments, if you feel really aggrieved don't take part in any future tournaments as a statement. Hydra Reloaded have had a long time of pvp excellence and they do not need the Alliance Tournament to prove it, and no offense, trying to fight this on the forums wont change anything. Your team leaders messed up by relying on the words of a GM and not a member of CCP, Remember it's CCP providing this tournament, they make the rules. just my lowly opinion

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