Intergalactic Summit

To be fair, the Amarrians basically kicked a hornet's nest eight hundred years ago. They kicked it so hard that it broke, and then they stole a bunch of hornets and took them off to make honey for them. Which I guess would be closer to kicking a bee's nest, but anyway. The Amarrians are now complaining about getting stung by the bees... hornets... angry yellow-and-black buzzy things... and the thing is they're still kicking the hornet's nest/beehive! They haven't ever stopped! And not only are they still kicking it, they're trying to pass it off as not having been a particularly good nest/hive in the first place and thus it required them to kick it and steal all their children/honey because...

Because...

You know, I distinctly remember that I was going somewhere with this.

We will fire back, of course. And I will happily call you primary, simply for being an annoying waste of space.

Farel, you are clinging to the defense that "theyre ours now simply because it has been so long." Our "elder invasion" is somehow wrong, but continued captivity of people who have commited no crime isnt, simply because one is more recent than the other?

What other possible reason do you have to condemn the 1 and defend the other? You took our kin, the elders came and took some back. While it can be said "two wrongs dont make a right", It cannot be said "1 wrong makes the other one ok."

So if I kidnap a newborn today, I am commiting a crime; if I do it and get away with it, and that child grows up with my family and Clan for 20 years, it grows up never knowing anything else and is "Minmatar" in all but blood, it is somehow acceptable, and that child's family and nation have no right to demand his or her return?

I am failing to see how at the basest level 1 is somehow "worse" than the other? Why 1 is "ok" and the other isnt?

Excuse me to use so many quotes in advance, but there are so many different points to cover that I thought it best to conscientiously treat each of them separated.



Thank you for clearing that out. It will save me a lot of time and I have to admit that I am starting to be tired of trying to reason with partisans, especially Matari. You were part of the few able to make compromises but all I see is are always elusive acknoledgements when it comes to the core of the matter. You agree on a lot of things, and yet, you continue to act otherwise in space, happily pirating and supporting an alliance that does not share the slighest standards of ethics you still continue to show here on the IGS. What was the point of your last message if you still continue to support in space the people you criticize here ?

I have to admit that I am confused by your reasoning on that matter. No more tolerance for double standards.



Do not even try to twist my words with your indoctrinated drivels. I am no fool that can be played with that kind of rhetoric. They are not "ours", to begin with, since I hardly think that Kitzless had ever kept any slaves at all - and I do not see what my corporation has to do with this. And something is the property of someone only in the eyes of a group of individuals. If the first one think it is theirs because it was theirs in the past, then it is their justification for it, and if the other group think it is theirs because it has been the past centuries, then it is their own justification for it too. Some people even think that an object changing hands without the consent of the other party makes them the rightful legitimate owners of that object - these people are mostly pirates, usually, and this is how you behave in space yourself, considering your constant security status issues.

That is not the point anyway. I only said that it is a matter of culture. If the people the Matari try to "free" are no longer Matari for half of them, if not more, what makes them Matari ? Blood ? This is a pure nonsense. We all have the same human blood with the same amount of DNA and proteins. If blood is not the issue, then what ? Phenotype : you think that you are the rightful owner (to take your words) of all people that somehow look Matari enough to you ? I am not sure you want to go on that kind of dicsussion, though.



Why would continued captivity of innocent people not be a crime ? Did I even say something like that ? I only stated facts that people seem to conveniently forget. Especially cultural assimilation, which always blurs everything, in particular after one or two generations.

What I will say now is not a fact, but a feeling that I can not shake, and yet that I find a little too easy too : "freeing our people" drivels sound mostly like the perfect casus belli to me. This is not about ideals for leaders, this is about power and politics (cf Shakor).



I defend no one. Or if I do, then I defend both of them, for that I defend both of them on particular points that I find reasonable in both sides.



I did not.

The Amarr did, centuries ago, and continue to do so.

I am not attempting to speak on Surionen's behalf here, but simply clarifying something. I agree that it would be wise to consider one's allies carefully and determine if they are whom you wish to remain allied to.

However, choosing to fight beside and defend those whom are your allies is honorable. Choosing not do so is dishonorable. Let wisdom determine whether or not the alliance should continue but while it does continue, let honor guide your actions.

You often speak as if you have the moral high ground, Farel. You seek to condemn others and engage in circular arguments, even twisting the words of those you are arguing with in order to validate the point you are trying to make. I strongly urge you to reconsider your approach and the manner in which you judge others, you possess neither the high ground nor the ultimate understanding that you behave as if you possess.



This is an example of what I refer to. You first insult Surionen, then claim she insulted you, then chose the moral and intellectual high ground (when you possessed neither) and then twisted her words while accusing her of doing the same to you. If you are so intelligent, then you would grasp that she spoke in reference to the Empire as a whole, not you as an individual or your corporation.

You are correct in that you are not a fool played by the rhetoric of your adversary, you are a fool played by your own rhetoric.

She'd be better at the semantics game if she actually checked a thesaurus once in a while.

I might have a spare one in the library here at home she could borrow.

Look, a snide comment from the peanut gallery to make them look all cool. I wish I could do that!

Wait, nope. No I dont.

Carry on.

I for one love Muck Raker's sensational sense of journalism, even the more far fetched articles still prove entertaining even when not informative. IGS may not be a classy format as it brings out the worst in people myself included, but I for can't keep away from the stories by the Gutter Press. I would like to formally request the Gutter Press make a small format paper Magazine that I could purchase at station gift shops to hear all of the gossip on the go while I am shopping.

Likewise. Also pointing out so called insults without actually quoting them will lead to nowhere.



You have nothing better than a mere ad-hominem ?

Oh, good, I'm glad you found it amusing. I was worried someone might find it irreverent.

Actually, the metaphor extends pretty well here. You're standing next to the people who kicked the nest, and in some cases trying to swat the bees away from them.