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New dev blog: Unified Inventory Changes

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Author
Uridium Silo
HamSteak Yummm
#381 - 2012-05-24 09:31:58 UTC
couldnt the unified inventory be óptional'. there are aspects I like. but i dont want to be dicking around while im in space with trying to open windows, finding which is my cargo container etc etc. its just plain sillyness
Zleon Leigh
#382 - 2012-05-24 09:34:53 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Blake Armitage wrote:
"We’re going to allow renaming of all POS structures"
wait, what?! Stop making me want to redeploy a POS!

Thanks for addressing and quickly communicating about the upcoming changes.


(I've wanted to do this since forever, so getting to sneak this in makes me super happy Big smile)



Isn't there a rename function? Cause I almost agree on redeploy - if it didn't take 2 *&%$#@& minutes for online of each module.

Incarna - Newest business example of mismanaged capital. CCP - Continuing to gank independent PI producers every day

PvP's latest  incentive program ** Unified Inventory **  'Cause you gotta kill something after trying to use it

Marcus Aurelijus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#383 - 2012-05-24 09:37:44 UTC
I've tried. I've really tried.

Let me try and start positive by pointing out I like the new filter options, especially since you have a variety of custom filters you can apply. Adding an estimated price on the whole content of containers is a step in the right direction too (although i'd really like some insight and influence or the way that number is calculated if it is meant to wean me off my oog tools)
And - though it only semi-related to inventory - being able to rename POS structures is really handy!

Nevertheless, on the whole, I severely dislike the new unified inventory.

There, that said let me explain (and admitting that i did not ready every post in the last 21 pages). Ill be elaborate and descriptive - not to create a wall of text - but to give insight in specific situations you might have missed.

Besides my many other roles in my corporation I also keep large inventories of corp stuff. I also do some hefty trading at times. I also collect loot from corp ops, which then get separated according to type, use, owner, sellability and many other criteria. To keep everything organized I got dozens of containers in some places. All have a dedicated role.

Before I used to click open a bunch of containers and could easily drag stuff from one container to another.
Just pick it up with multi-select and drag it to the appropriate container or cargo hold. Containers I could open and resize and spread all across my screen as to minimize the effort involved and the chance of dragging it wrong. If I had to open too many to fit my screen i stacked them up in one window.

Now I have a long list in a clunky interface that hardly allows me to show them all without dragging - heaven forbid if i wanted to drag things to different ships too (add a dozen or more lines), though at 1200 pixels height my screen is hardly small. The individual items on that list are one line only. Therefore i now more often misdrag and need to go into the other container and find and select the items there and drag em again.
Ofcourse I can open the separate container windows with shift click now. But why shift-click? what was wrong with double click? or hold-n-drag? And why, WHY?! does every tab of every container - dragged into a stacked window have to tell me for every tab that the container in question is a sub division of the item hangar? In order to see the actual names now I need to drag the single stacked window so wide it takes up 3 times as much screen space. Screen space that is already at a premium although I do have a 1920 width resolution, not exactly a underdog size either. This means I cant fit far less containers in that window and still have overview. Not able to place enough containers on screen to do things the efficient way I did before. So now i have to make two or three runs with different other containers open next to the big store container I'm trying to divide items from. And having to remember which ones I already did and whether or not to pick up a bunch of items that fit a certain criterium based on the fact that container is actually open or not.

The way it is now adds (a) second(s) or so to every single action. That might not seem too much if you only do cool PVP stuff and only have a couple of ships + their fits to juggle but not all in EVE is cool PVP-ing (although thats very enjoyable as well).
Has ANY dev actually tried to play the role of Loot divider/seller or trader? those are roles that aren't exactly rare or exotic in Eve. It would seem not... . You should have tried selecting and dragging and dividing a container of 40.000 m3 of mods and salvage and stuff. I could do that in 20-30 minutes before. Now it takes considerably longer.
Even though I offer service to my corp this way, which earned me their gratitude and all of use a little better money its hardly the most exiting part of it all. And you just made it more tiresome and lenghty.

Changing Ship through the new inventory is, or at least feels, slower too. It doesn't takes ages but it feels boggy.

For the love of the supreme being that resides in the wormhole that once connected us to old Earth could you, CCP Soundwave, please please at least re-add the possibility to open individual containers in individual windows again by double clicking them from the list?
And make them show the name in the tab that I've given that container? I do not need to be reminder everytime its a subdivision of the item hangar. Honestly, you may assume that I understand that fact.
Although that wouldn't exactly fix the clunkyness of the unified inventory it would at least take some of the pain off.

And If you are still looking to improve after that? It cool i can see in distant containers from a different station now (I really mean that!)...but i still need to know something is there in advance which more or less defeats the purpose. Would it be at all possible to allow searching into containers - locally and remote? the new systems seems to create the possibility for that.

Won't go into the pain of looting wrecks in a wreck-rich environment as others already talked about that.

Marcus
TTIGER
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#384 - 2012-05-24 09:37:50 UTC  |  Edited by: TTIGER
New inventory sytem is only not stupid but also lagging people . If i move around POSes while inventory open i lost half FPS until all guns and other stuff loaded to list .

LAGISREAL CCP
CCP Soundwave
C C P
C C P Alliance
#385 - 2012-05-24 09:39:50 UTC
Update: POS structure renaming got done yesterday and will be included in todays update.

We'll continue going through the list :)
Roime
Shiva Furnace
#386 - 2012-05-24 09:43:29 UTC
Nice,

good stuff!

Improving performance when opening full hangars and moving large quantities of items should probably be very high on the list.

Another thing to look at could be "mini-mode", which hides the volume and value displays to preserve screen estate. This would be beneficial in the use case of PVP with active tanks.

I'm one of those who really like the new UI, slick and efficient in the common tasks.

.

CCP Soundwave
C C P
C C P Alliance
#387 - 2012-05-24 09:50:38 UTC
Timbuck V wrote:
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
Dex Tera wrote:
EvilCCP YOU GUYS SRSLY ****** UP THIS TIME......AGAIN
I DONT EVEN KNOW WHERE TO BEGIN SO I WONT EVEN TRY

will respond again latter with constructive critisisim and some good ideas on how to fix this piece of crap once im done being totally pissed off

Dex


.... The new system is here to stay so it is better to give good suggestions they can do instead of a useless opinion.


Ok so... Close this topic, that's a good suggestion for you I guess

For UI suggestions look a the forum, and pass over troll'nd whining post.
For my part my suggestions

- Static windows
- Double-clic instead of shift-clic or/and Clic'nd drag
- Orca corporate hangar windowed with tabs
- Grouping of different type of structure ( POS )
- Highlight of accessible structures ( POS )
- Naming Pos modules

But In anycase to begin with - "Reading the feedback of the capsuler test on Sisi Might have been a good starting point"



Most, if not all of those, are likely to happen :)

It will very likely be drag and drop windows and not double click though!
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#388 - 2012-05-24 09:52:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Ribikoka
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Update: POS structure renaming got done yesterday and will be included in todays update.

We'll continue going through the list :)



We dont want pos structure renaming, that is just a brain operation with axe again.
More typing for players ? Who want renaming 150 pos modules at every pos ? That is the solution for a bad inventory system ?
We not need this, we want back the old fully functionally inventory system we want to forget this inventory nightmare.
Because this is it, a nightmare, a horrible,terrible unusable inventory system.
We want play and fun, not wasting time and wrestling with inventory system.
Bring back when the new system is fully operational without bugs, dumb ideas, and when WORKING fine !!!
Put back to test server because this alpha state inventory is not finished and shame for all CCP developers.
Callidus Dux
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#389 - 2012-05-24 10:04:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Callidus Dux
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Update: POS structure renaming got done yesterday and will be included in todays update.

We'll continue going through the list :)

Sorry pal.. but I have no POS. What I have is a not useable UI. Hope you will bring a solution online very soon. Till you come with a good solution around the corner, I have to stay docked and only loggin in to change skills. But be sure that I will not renew my subscribtion for a game that I can not play due to incompetent development. You are able to see my account details. More than 4 years continued subscribtion and payed in Euro. Alone for this account. I have a second account a little bit newer than this here. Do you really want to lose such customers?
Ardaeik Marconea
Oraron Research and Investment
#390 - 2012-05-24 10:04:33 UTC
Can we click on the corp hangar and have them all come up like before instead of having to click on every one of them individually to bring them up.
Marcus Aurelijus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#391 - 2012-05-24 10:07:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Marcus Aurelijus
Since you seem to be actively responding to posts Soundwave...Id love to see on on my previous post a little up edit: pervious page now (20) too.
I did try -and spend quite some time- explaining stuff and why it doenst work instead of just screaming and giving bulletpoint orders. :)

Marcus
Callidus Dux
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#392 - 2012-05-24 10:19:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Callidus Dux
Who is that guy which massively deletes posts in this forum? Is this your idea of customer care? The customer says: "No we do not like it!" and you delete this opinion? Where are my postst some pages back?

It is really time to shoot things up in Jita again. Cool
Kaylee Cipher
Cyclicality Cabal
#393 - 2012-05-24 10:19:36 UTC
Dear CCP,

I love the new inventory system but there is one thing that I think is wrong with it and does need to be ammended.

Wrecks, cargo containers in space (excluding archored containers), exploration containers (containers found in radar, magnetometric sites) and mission item containers (i.e. the damaged Heron in Worlds Collide)

These items should not be part of "my inventory", they do not belong to me and as such should open in a seperate window as before.

Salvaging has become a slow painful process because opening a wreck requires the whole inventory to be opened. Opening the whole inventory takes alot longer because off the extra data that needs to be collated.

Before the unified inventory you could set a salvager on a wreck and have enough time to open it and loot the items before the salvager cycle had finished and the wreck changed into a container. This is now no longer the case and the client pauses for a split second while it gathers the data and displays the window.

Please can you seperate these items from "my" inventory and return them to their own window. It will make the lives of salvagers like myself a happy one again.

Thank you.

CCP Guard
C C P
C C P Alliance
#394 - 2012-05-24 10:20:42 UTC
I went through the thread and deleted rants, off topic posts, personal bickering between posters,personal attacks, trolls and flames.

We are trying our best to gather feedback here so please post constructively and don't clutter the thread with posts that don't further the discussion. Feel free to be critical, but be polite and try to make your post count for something. Thank you!

CCP Guard | EVE Community Developer | @CCP_Guard

Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children
TOHA Conglomerate
#395 - 2012-05-24 10:21:33 UTC
FAO: CCP Soundwave

Here are my considered thoughts having used the new inventory system.

I understand that people generally resist change, and that making progress sometimes feels like walking through mud (I run an eve alliance - believe me I know!)

However, to be honest, the previous lighweight dockable multi-window solution was much better for me.

I live in WH space, and everything I do is in a POS or on a battlefield.

Small, lightweight windows with thin frames gave me the opportunity to arrange fuel bays, corp hangars, cargo, shared jet-cans etc. as I needed and wanted them.

The new window system, even after learning about the shift-click workaround, introduces has 2 problems that I did not have before:

1. I can't change tabs in a corporate hangar without expanding the container list on the left hand side of the inventory window (I prefer to keep it closed for space reasons). There is wasted space on the top border of the inventory window, where you could easily put the corporate division tabs once again. I would thank you for doing that.

2. The borders of the inventory window are thicker now, and no longer fit in the spaces I have carefully made for them. I don't need a "progress bar" telling me how full my container is, the numbers were sufficient. I certainly don't need an "isk estimate" of the contents. It's of no value to me when what I really want to find are my cap boosters - and in a hurry because I am about to lose my ship!

I am a software engineer, and I understand the drive to create cool features - it's what makes our work rewarding. However, in this case your cool is my annoyance I am sorry to say. Please provide me with a means to turn off these thicker borders/information panels (and let me default the setting).

In short, by all means keep the new inventory system for those that want it, but please let me make it look and act like the old one, which was perfect for me. In my view this is just common sense. The only way you are truly able to assess the regression impact of a UI change is to allow people to experiment with it, and either accept it (wholly or partially) or reject it.

Please confirm receipt. This entry has been made as a result of my petition being answered with a "please post an item on the forum" response.

I am saddened by this. We've had 9 fantastic months of CCP responding to player input on game enhancements, but this feels like CCP going back to the bad old days of "we know better, so get over it". Humility will bring you increased player numbers, not arrogance.

Sincerely,

Richard Hodges

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".

disasteur
Tellcomtec Industries.
#396 - 2012-05-24 10:22:43 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Update: POS structure renaming got done yesterday and will be included in todays update.

We'll continue going through the list :)


why is it so hard to understand, we DONT want this, we like to see the old system back but you keep making posts on how you are trying to fix things on something that wasnt broken in the first place

just answer 1 simple question... are you, or are you NOT considering the wishes of the majority?
it will save a lot of time on typing when you are straight foreward with this!
ivar R'dhak
Deus est Mechanicus
#397 - 2012-05-24 10:24:18 UTC  |  Edited by: ivar R'dhak
Sorry if it´s already been asked, but is there no way to have the old window functionality ALONGSIDE the new "Explorer"?
Simply speaking, have you just gutted and deleted that old working code?

And when will the EXPLORER work where it is actually perfect for, namely using it to manage your Assets.

P.S. please get rid of (or hide or make it a supasicrit key shortcut) the fricken item + isk counter. Takes away valuable window space and just induces nightmares to actually know what one is risking by simply undocking. Bear
Pierced Brosmen
Veyr
The Veyr Collective
#398 - 2012-05-24 10:28:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Pierced Brosmen
I like the fact that if you shift-click to open cargohold in a separate window, the new window will persist when docking/undocking. However I would like the ship to be removed from the tree view of main inventory when that is done and have the cargohold contain tree for whatever other holds are in the ship (and further, if I separated the ship's corp hangar to yet another window, that will dissappear from the tree view of the cargohold). Alternatively, you have the "Master inventory manager" with everything in the tree view, and when separating something to a different window, the new window only contain the tree structure of it's sub-levels (for active ship, you get all other bays in the ship, Corp hangar with the sub-divisions, etc.)

Also, one thing that is a bit annoying. If having the cargohold in a separate window with the current version of the manager, If I undock while the main inventory is open, I then suddenly have 2x cargohold windows, cause I have the window I opened, and the in-space version of the inventory manager. If I close the inventory manager window and dock, I have to double click the background to get the in-station window to open... That the inventory manager have 2 states for in-station and in-space is nice, but it should also independently remember open/closed state, so even if you close it while in space, it would reopen in station if it was open the last time you undocked.

Further, regarding persistant windows. If this can be implemented, I would like a option when opening a location in a new window, to right click the header of the window and have an option for "Make persistant window" so only those you chose to have as persistant would be so.

I would also like to be able to right click a location in the inventory manager (main groups like active ship, items or ships) when in station and set "Default location"... so for example when you dock you would see the items and not your cargo bay. This I would also like to extend to corp hangars (both in station and in space), to set default corp hangar, so that if you just click the group item "Corp hangar" without extending the croup to see the divisions, you would be presented with your chosen default hangar division.

[Edit] Oh, and it would be nice to be able to re-arrange the order of groups in the tree... Like I would prefer having items and corp hangar above the ships hangar group for example
Acthiliak
Midori Farukon Syndicate
#399 - 2012-05-24 10:34:21 UTC
Overall I'm happy with the new unified inventory. Its different, and it takes some getting used to but gives me all the functionality that existed in the old system plus a handy new tree. There seems to be a lot of rage about having to shift click to open new windows, but I find that having a single list of all inventories that I can shift click through to my heart's content is better than the old system's figuring out which right click contextual menu it was in.

As for suggestions, and I apologize if these have been mentioned before...

Filterable inventory list - the contents of an inventory are filterable, being able to filter the list itself as well would help. Filter by range, type, etc.

Sortable inventory list - there doesn't seem to be a rhyme or reason to the order of the list, drag and drop and sort by ___ would be amazing for browsing corp mates' personal hangars.

Mostly a design nitpick.. but certain items in the list that don't have child elements can be confused with other child elements at first glance, the indentation of children or design treatment could be a little more pronounced.

Shift clicking the corporation hangars could open a new inventory view that only had the divisions listed in the index, or some other way of making it so if i want a corp hangar window i have the equivalent of the old tabs

When dragging an item from one inventory to another, if you hover over the destination before releasing it will change the view to that inventory. it seems to do so a little too quickly, but maybe there could be a toggle for that functionality, or a selection to [change inventory] [preview inventory] [do nothing]. personally i'd love to set mine to preview inventory, which could be as simple as reverting to the source inventory after the move is complete.

Filters seem to be exclusive? maybe the wrong word choice, but basically if i check the filter [Ammunition] and then [Ore and Mats] i get nothing because there is nothing that is Ammo AND Ore. If we could get a toggle to change the boolean interaction between multiple filters, that would allow us to leverage that feature way better. (there's also the overview settings that have this issue on another note)

I can't seem to open the fuel bay of a ship that isn't currently active. Or the drone bay. I'm sure those are already on the table for getting back in though.





and thank you for getting the pos mod renaming in, that was a godsend irrespective of this inventory change. All in all I am enjoying this inventory system a lot and am looking forward to any future iterations on it.
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
#400 - 2012-05-24 10:34:46 UTC
Quick one:

On merged Ships/Items hangar view - If you have say a freighter or hauler with ships and items loaded do a 'select all' and drag it to your ships or items hangar, nothing happens.

It appears you now need to drags ships and items separately. A rather annoying and cumbersome change in functionality.