These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

New dev blog: Unified Inventory Changes

First post First post First post
Author
Brutal Red
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#361 - 2012-05-24 08:20:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Brutal Red
Maul555 wrote:
I am going to repost this from my Feedback on the Sisi feature, before it was released to TQ:

#526 Posted: 2012.05.10 16:08 | Report | Edited by: Maul555
4
CCP. I don't have the luxury of looking over this and deciding if this is a game that I want to get into and spend my time on. I have already invested some 9 years with you guys, I have wasted time, and I am invested. I have been doing things a certain way for 9 years, and you are about to force me to abandon all my current workflows. If this was a brand new game that I had never played, I would probably not get into it because of the unified inventory alone. (its a nice game, too bad its a B!7CH to use) Do not implement changes that interrupt business as usual. You are not a new game, this is not a time to reinvent the wheel and throw it out there on everyone's cars. People have developed habits and procedures that work and serve them well. You cant just kill that off now without serious repercussions.

Think CCP! You have had 9 years of great success with the current windowed interface. The most basic and universal thing in the game, the User Interface. You are talking about throwing out your proven foundation!THINK CCP, THINK!


This!

I hope someone from dev/management is reading this .
But I'll bet it gets ignored , just like the countless other threads .

To be honest , I think it's a waste of time .
I think this new UI is needed for integration with the Dust thing , screw players that play/pay Eve for years , CCP still does what it wants to do .

Nothing new here, and maybe fixing/testing this new UI crap should have been done on some sort of test server , before deploying it on a production server . (just an idea!Evil)
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#362 - 2012-05-24 08:32:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Ribikoka
Tippia wrote:
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
You see folks. This is what happens when you spend your time giving good, detailed suggestions
You mean nothing? Yes, we know that already, that's why people have been screaming.

People have spent time giving good, detailed suggestions for the last month. It resulted in nothing until everyone started yelling about how they hated it and were going to unsub.


This is the pure truth. We sent hundreds feedbacks to CCP, but they do nothing and they didn't fixed this badly developed new inventory system.

Tippia created a nice video from problems http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHJ_gL3vzmM , but we got a simple answer.



""CCP Arrow wrote:
In the sessions the whole team observed the live feed and took notes on everything the participants did. We don't do User Tests because we don't believe you when you say there is a problem, we want to address it correctly and by seeing it in action with our own eyes, we can more easily find a solution to the problems you have found."

The answer in short version : Dont care what you say, we will put our sh*t down your throat.

And another thing, when Tippia sent this video They promised to us, they will fixing those problems in video , before the final version moving to TQ, but they didn't fixed a single problem on the last Sisi build, what we sent in the last week.
They just released out the half finished inventory.
azurefox
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#363 - 2012-05-24 08:33:40 UTC  |  Edited by: azurefox
I discovered that when docked, if you have the cargo hold open in its own window, clicking the new inventory icon button will open and close the cargo but clicking anywhere else on the screen will open the new inventory window. Shouldn't the inventory button ALWAYS open the new combined inventory? and vice versa, double clicking on my ship should always open the cargo hold...

The points below were posted previously without a reply from you, CCP, it would be nice to hear what your plans/ feelings are.

sterva I wrote:

1. Station Items button and ship hangar button - that was a good thing; now its gone too.
2. Double click on a ship doesn't open a ship hangar anymore. Why?

Nymblar wrote:
''When I'm viewing an Audit Log Container in 'Details' or 'List' mode, there's no visual feedback do distinguish which items are locked and unlocked, like there is in the Icon view.'' (my idea - How about adding a small red circle to the bottom right to indicate locked items?)

Selissa Shadoe wrote:
When looking at skillbooks, you can't just inject it, you must move it to your 'items hanger',before injecting it. Why?

Blade straight, steel true

Endeavour Starfleet
#364 - 2012-05-24 08:36:34 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
You see folks. This is what happens when you spend your time giving good, detailed suggestions
You mean nothing? Yes, we know that already, that's why people have been screaming.

People have spent time giving good, detailed suggestions for the last month. It resulted in nothing until everyone started yelling about how they hated it and were going to unsub.


Um no I know you think you are all special because of your fake unsub threats but the truth is they are starting and adding more features as they see the community wants. Because they WANT to not because they are supposedly shivering in fear over your fake ass unsub threads.

They said from the start that it was going to be improved on. And the GOOD suggestions made it in the first batch. Maybe if they did not have to work to gather the good ideas from the amount of whiny posts they could have gotten more into the first batch and sooner.
Chaotic Mind
Wet Corpses
#365 - 2012-05-24 08:41:47 UTC
I do like the new inventory, just needs some tweaks


  • Hide Corporation Hangars which you can't access on the list
  • When you use the filter on the top right, go deeper and search through all your assets.
  • Gray out all the hangars and ships and containers that doesn't contain the searched item
  • Add a number of items found when using the filter (maybe on the right side of the containers/ships/hangars
  • Now with the folder structure, why not letting us create our own folders without using a container?
  • Additional to this maybe give us the possibility to add colors to folders as visual help for stuff
  • Possibility to define "favourites" that will always stay on top of the list (ship hangar, a special container in the corp hangars)
  • please please please make it possible to save the layout of in-station inventory windows and out-station inventory windows.
  • basically it's not bad, but some may want no keep a seperate "ship hangar" , but once you undock all the windows positions are gone :/
  • Add a little online/offline icon next to the pos modules
Faith Patrouette
Careless Carebears Inc.
#366 - 2012-05-24 08:44:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Faith Patrouette
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:


Um no I know you think you are all special because of your fake unsub threats but the truth is they are starting and adding more features as they see the community wants. Because they WANT to not because they are supposedly shivering in fear over your fake ass unsub threads.

They said from the start that it was going to be improved on. And the GOOD suggestions made it in the first batch. Maybe if they did not have to work to gather the good ideas from the amount of whiny posts they could have gotten more into the first batch and sooner.


Where did you come up with the idea that this was added because the community wanted this feature?
They said from the start it was going to be improved on, yea.. they.. SAID... if they actually had done what they said from the START like you said, they would have implemented the feedback given when this was deployed on test server, and had held off with taking it live untill they fixed it.

Stop sugarcoating stupid ideas with stupid comments, the reason people now 'whine'/yell is because CCP ignored all test server feedback and went live with an idea that was not only broken.. but was also not needed/wanted.

Test server is for deploying new things and gathering feedback, so once things go live, they are functional and may only need to be tweaked slightly, not completely redone.
also 'the good suggestions made it n the first batch' uh.. no they didnt, because the good suggestions were already made on test server feedback, and thus could have already been fixed before going live..
Shokre O'Corwi
The Squid Squad
#367 - 2012-05-24 08:44:42 UTC
Quote:
Inventory window locations that are still accessible between docking and undocking will now remain open. For example a ships Drone Bay, if opened in a separate window.

Ok, so in my case separate windows now remember their previous location (ship hangar and station cargo hold), but why is it that every time I dock I have to open the inventory and shift-click both. Both windows are pinned. Am I missing something or doing something wrong?
tasman devil
Puritans
We want your ISK
#368 - 2012-05-24 08:47:36 UTC
This dev blog was pretty fast...

*tinfoil hat: ON!*

I don't belive in reincarnation I've never believed in it in my previous lives either...

atrum dux
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#369 - 2012-05-24 08:55:20 UTC
Burn Jita, torch CCP, skål .
Caprican Erock
CE Diversified Holdings Incorporated
#370 - 2012-05-24 08:56:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Caprican Erock
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Cyriacus Antonius wrote:
Will there ever be a way to revert to the old inventory system? I'm not sold on the new one at all, regardless of changes.


No, probably not. I will however go fairly far in implementing feedback that improves this piece of UI though. Feedback continues to be welcome.


Look, guy, this isn't the answer. When a large quantity of your player base has actually logged onto your forums to tell you - "we didn't want this new feature anyway" you have to sit back and remove the hubris and say - do we really want to lose customers over this? Are we so invested in pride with this that we don't have the will to listen? No one asked for this. Almost all of the feedback you got from people using it on SISI prior to release was negative. Some people like it. They probably haven't been playing very long. Thus YES let some people keep it and let us others who are telling you NO WE DON'T want this to remove the feature. However, never never never is the answer to just say 'no' deal with it. That is a path to disaster from a public relations point of view.

This is exactly the same sort of response that got your subscribers in a fury last time - us telling you 'we don't want xyz' and you telling us that 'xyz is here to stay no matter what you think and we don't really care'. Question for you Governer Dev - how did that work out for you? That's right it didn't and while you got a lot of free publicity last time it was not positive publicity.

As i've said in posts elsewhere i'll be happy to give you guys a 3 month window (business quarter) to sort this out. Until then looks like i'll be playing 'skill queue online' - what a wonderful investment of my money - insert cash get zero entertainment out. If it's not tickable as an option or removed entirely you'll see a precipitous drop in subs again. I hope you do the right thing man I really do.

*edit: I was one of those people who went on SISI prior to release and in the process of helping my alliance do other redacted things interfaced with the new UI in the process. At which time I immediately after completing my duties with my alliance logged onto the forums here to tell you that it was a jumble and a bad idea. I've been told by CCP employees elsewhere literally "go on the forums and post about your issues - DEVS READ THE FORUMS". What a bald faced lie by the looks of it.
Balder Verdandi
Wormhole Sterilization Crew
#371 - 2012-05-24 08:59:18 UTC
So far, I'm fine with most of the stuff this new patch brought but this inventory system is really *the* most horrible part of the patch. The "Windows Explorer" look is okay, but it's making simple tasks painful to the point that I don't want to play because its much more difficult to do rather simple tasks.

Mining Operations:
If you've ever held a mining op that:

- Used jet-cans tractored in by a Rorqual or Orca
- Dumping directly into the cargo bay on an Orca
- Dumping from an Orca into a Rorqual,

this was incredibly easy to do, and is now incredibly painful. You really need multiple windows for doing these operations and its obvious that whomever came up with this design hasn't spent hours in a belt or mining out the ABC's of an anom/grav site. We need to be able to quickly tab between the different bays on ships like the Orca, Rorqual, carriers, and freighter like we did prior to this patch. We don't need to have multiple windows filling our screen, much less one large screen with everything we own. What makes this worse is having inventory in the system you're mining in; there is absolutely NO reason why I need to see whats in a station that is tens or hundreds of AU away from me while I'm in a mining operation.

Looting/Salvaging Wrecks:
This should be super easy with two clicks (open cargo, loot all button) but it's now just madness. I don't want to open an inventory control panel (and wait for it to load) while looting wrecks. All I need to see is the cargo hold of the wreck that I'm looting, not everything I have in system. This not only applies to belt ratting, but running a Noctis through a plex to get all the goodies and T2 salvage. If you've ever looted and salvaged wrecks in a plex, you know most of the time you're on the move because you could have wrecks as far out as 80km to 140km away. Again, I don't want to fill my screen with stuff I don't need to see while running a salvage operation. Also, I do not want to close the cargo hold of every wreck I've looted or have it auto-default back to my cargo hold when it used to "auto-close" on it's own. The process of looting/salvaging wrecks was once very easy and now has become a chore.

Corp Hangars:
Moving things like blueprints in/out of a corp hangar to research using the corp lab (or corp assets in general) are painful. There is no reason why I need to open my entire station inventory, then open (shift+click) on the specific corp hangar, then open (another shift+click) the container with my blueprints, and then struggle with now open containers/corp hangar/inventory control panel that will reset their size every session change, or try to bring what I need to the front because they are now hidden behind a single massive inventory control panel. Double clicking and opening a containter was much easier.

Session Resets:
When I open my cargo hold, drone bay, station containers, anchored containers, Corp Hangar, or my friend's corp bay in his Orca, I don't want to deal with resizing it every single time I need to open it. I have different sizes for each window, along with where I want that window, based on what action each item provides me whether its dumping ammo into my hold, adding/removing drones, or just trying to keep track of minerals or blueprints. This is something that I shouldn't have to struggle doing. And yes, I've cleared my cache to fix it which hasn't helped.

Double Clicking:
Wow, I thought this was a feature not a flaw of the game. Wasn't this something new with the previous patch, Incarna? I used to double click a ship to easily open it's cargo bay while in station and instead I end up getting into a ship. And the ship disappears. Seriously? It needs to show up as an active ship in the ship hangar. Also, double clicking a station container doesn't open a new window. I need the ability to have multiple windows open (and have them remember where they opened and what size) without this struggle.

Active Ship:
When you're in an active ship and it's in the top left of the new UI, it's confusing to see directly below it the word, "None". Okay, none what? The inconsistency here is when I open my Items Hangar, I can see what items are there. I should be able to see all items are both in and on my ship, not just the drone bay if it exists (which by the way is what "None" represents).

POS Management:
There is absolutely NO need to see all inventory I have in system plus the offensive and defensive hardware (missile/gun/laser arrays, shield emitters, etc.) of a POS when I open the cargo hold on my ship to pick up blueprint copies, or drop off fuel blocks. This also applies to POS moon mining, POS corporate hangars, POS silos, and POS labs. Again, I have no need to see inventory in a station tens or hundreds of AU from me when I want to simply pickup/drop off items at my POS.

Pricing:
I'm primarily an industrialist, so I know how to use the market history tools already available in the market view. Where is the need to know how much my ships cost, or how much various sizes and quantities of ammo cost? This makes no sense because if I have missiles mixed with hybrid ammo, you're now making "apples + oranges = ISK" and its no longer an accurate representation of each items value.

Lag loading the UI:
There are some systems where I don't have many items, and therefore it loads faster than in systems where I have several hundred items. It is, unfortunately, still much slower loading than before the patch. Before the patch, I was looking at 5 to 10 seconds and now I'm looking at 20 to 30 seconds.

Buttons:
You've gotten rid of the "Loot All" and "Corp Hangar" buttons, but kept the "Rent Office" and "Move HQ Here" buttons. Where is the consistency?

If this UI actually added any benefit I would sing its praises, instead it has now made things incredibly difficult for me that were once very simple.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#372 - 2012-05-24 09:00:06 UTC
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
Um no I know you think you are all special
So you don't know anything then. Well that's a shocking revelation. Roll

Quote:
They said from the start that it was going to be improved on. And the GOOD suggestions made it in the first batch.
No, they didn't. The only suggestion that made it into the first batch was shift-click, and that didn't really solve any of the myriad of problems people were pointing out.

Quote:
Maybe if they did not have to work to gather the good ideas from the amount of whiny posts they could have gotten more into the first batch and sooner.
Good thing that they didn't have to do anything of the sort, then, since the amount of whiny posts was minute and since all the feedback threads provided very easy-to-use collections of the key points (and that those who just chimed in with a simple “don't like it” tended to refer back to one of the many lists of issues). And yet, none of it made it into the first release. What were the odds for that…

So no, what you just said is complete nonsense. They didn't have to work for the good ideas, and none of the good ideas made it in.
Choose Randomize
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#373 - 2012-05-24 09:01:16 UTC
Quote:
One is persisting windows that only work in certain places (you have a window that only works in the station and you want it to be open and in the same location the next time you dock for example)


This is definitely thing what i need.

I need on station always open (ALWAYS) -> cargohold, item hangar - > you can simply drag items between windows.


No like now -> i must shift click on ship find cargohold..., or right click on ship open cargohold.. than find in some freaky item manager my item hangar(shift click) ..........................................
And this situation repeatedly in whole night somethimes +- 100x

This system is very stupid sorry.

Before patch i only need TWO stacionary windows in whole night, no need CRAP shiftclicksomethingusefullmanager.
Endeavour Starfleet
#374 - 2012-05-24 09:02:59 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Guard
.
Buzzmong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#375 - 2012-05-24 09:06:17 UTC
I didn't really see anything wrong with the old system to be honest.

Granted, you had to use the seperate assets window to find anything, but it worked fine.

I'd be happy with the new one if CCP kept seperate windows for ships and items in your current place.


Also, packaged ships should show on the left hand tree view. I thought the game had eaten a couple of ships before I realised it was only showing unpackaged ships on the left.
Endeavour Starfleet
#376 - 2012-05-24 09:07:36 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Guard
.
Rania Kuvakei
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#377 - 2012-05-24 09:08:36 UTC
New inventory arrangement; not happy. As if anyone cared. I'll get used to it eventually, but I don't think I should have to.

--
foggy days are how God keeps his frame-rate high.
- Dansdata
Ishanmae
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#378 - 2012-05-24 09:23:18 UTC
Dinta Zembo wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Cyriacus Antonius wrote:
Will there ever be a way to revert to the old inventory system? I'm not sold on the new one at all, regardless of changes.


No, probably not.


Why? No offense but is it that hard? Just a little checkbox.. Straight


That's like saying coding EVE is easy, it's just a "Play" button...

Anyway... thanks for taking the feedback in consideration and for taking action to fix the key issues.

I like the new UI and am really looking forward to it being 100% useable!
Zleon Leigh
#379 - 2012-05-24 09:27:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Zleon Leigh
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Cyriacus Antonius wrote:
Will there ever be a way to revert to the old inventory system? I'm not sold on the new one at all, regardless of changes.


No, probably not. I will however go fairly far in implementing feedback that improves this piece of UI though. Feedback continues to be welcome.


Then implement static SIMPLE views of Ship Hanger, Corp Hanger, Station Items, Ship Hold.

Revert ship double click to cargo hold open instead of ship change.

As a few have said - UI should have been improvement on Assets, not Inventory.

Also - item contract out of containers!!

And most importantly - FIX THE PROCESS FOR NEW "Features".. Most apparent that it continues to miss the mark.

Incarna - Newest business example of mismanaged capital. CCP - Continuing to gank independent PI producers every day

PvP's latest  incentive program ** Unified Inventory **  'Cause you gotta kill something after trying to use it

Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
#380 - 2012-05-24 09:28:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Niko Lorenzio
Caprican Erock wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Cyriacus Antonius wrote:
Will there ever be a way to revert to the old inventory system? I'm not sold on the new one at all, regardless of changes.


No, probably not. I will however go fairly far in implementing feedback that improves this piece of UI though. Feedback continues to be welcome.


Look, guy, this isn't the answer. When a large quantity of your player base has actually logged onto your forums to tell you - "we didn't want this new feature anyway" you have to sit back and remove the hubris and say - do we really want to lose customers over this? Are we so invested in pride with this that we don't have the will to listen? No one asked for this. Almost all of the feedback you got from people using it on SISI prior to release was negative. Some people like it. They probably haven't been playing very long. Thus YES let some people keep it and let us others who are telling you NO WE DON'T want this to remove the feature. However, never never never is the answer to just say 'no' deal with it. That is a path to disaster from a public relations point of view.

This is exactly the same sort of response that got your subscribers in a fury last time - us telling you 'we don't want xyz' and you telling us that 'xyz is here to stay no matter what you think and we don't really care'. Question for you Governer Dev - how did that work out for you? That's right it didn't and while you got a lot of free publicity last time it was not positive publicity.

As i've said in posts elsewhere i'll be happy to give you guys a 3 month window (business quarter) to sort this out. Until then looks like i'll be playing 'skill queue online' - what a wonderful investment of my money - insert cash get zero entertainment out. If it's not tickable as an option or removed entirely you'll see a precipitous drop in subs again. I hope you do the right thing man I really do.

*edit: I was one of those people who went on SISI prior to release and in the process of helping my alliance do other redacted things interfaced with the new UI in the process. At which time I immediately after completing my duties with my alliance logged onto the forums here to tell you that it was a jumble and a bad idea. I've been told by CCP employees elsewhere literally "go on the forums and post about your issues - DEVS READ THE FORUMS". What a bald faced lie by the looks of it.


I'd rather have them say no than just be quiet and ignore us completely and then not do it anyway. No can be dealt with, communicated, and at least we know the direction we should focus our efforts in, that is trying to make the new UI as good or better than the old. And we wont stop till that happens.


EDIT:

Endeavour Starfleet wrote:

Next time just calm yourself down and provide suggestions instead of whining like an idiot. The new system is here to stay so it is better to give good suggestions they can do instead of a useless opinion.


^Troll blocked.

The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016. Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI.

CSM matters, your voice matters, your vote matters!