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Target Spectrum Breaker - Review

Author
TotalRapeage
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2012-05-24 02:15:45 UTC
Tamiya Sarossa wrote:
I'm pretty sure it's aimed at large fleet battles, not helping you break NPC tackles. Get it tested in a proper fleet fight with 500+ people and then get back to us?

EDIT: and to be honest the Black Ops and Marauder inclusion is probably for consistency since they're the only other BS-class ships out there, not out of any misplaced hope that they'll frequently fit them. It would be more odd if they couldn't, tbh.




Note: Will affect all targeting computers, including those of friendly vessels and of the host ship itself.



What's this thing do to other ships in your fleet as far as their ability to target the enemy? Also, due to the 50% scan res hit you take for fitting this, I just don't see this being used in fleets unless your talking disco fleets.

This module is more of a GTFO for a solo travel fit or disco bs.
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#22 - 2012-05-24 02:18:09 UTC
TotalRapeage wrote:
Tamiya Sarossa wrote:
I'm pretty sure it's aimed at large fleet battles, not helping you break NPC tackles. Get it tested in a proper fleet fight with 500+ people and then get back to us?

EDIT: and to be honest the Black Ops and Marauder inclusion is probably for consistency since they're the only other BS-class ships out there, not out of any misplaced hope that they'll frequently fit them. It would be more odd if they couldn't, tbh.




Note: Will affect all targeting computers, including those of friendly vessels and of the host ship itself.



What's this thing do to other ships in your fleet as far as their ability to target the enemy? Also, due to the 50% scan res hit you take for fitting this, I just don't see this being used in fleets unless your talking disco fleets.

This module is more of a GTFO for a solo travel fit or disco bs.
As someone whose name starts with a C, I could see fitting this on a fleet ship.
Sradoc
Sradoc Corporation
#23 - 2012-05-24 02:18:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Sradoc
-herp derp, double post.
Sradoc
Sradoc Corporation
#24 - 2012-05-24 02:19:22 UTC
Lili Lu wrote:
When I first saw this on the test server I misunderstood it and thought great how does the game need more ecm. But what it really is is a gtfo option to possibly avoid being alpha'd by artillery module. Now I have not tested it in a fleet battle. But I'm sure it will get tested in this way.

So there you are with an overview of yellow boxes. You could hit it at that moment and congrats when they do turn red you may survive the first volley as quite possibly a majority of the enemy may not realize that they lost target on you when you were the secondary or tertiary. They may be stuck trying to reaquire you as a target while your logis are enjoying a chance to rehabilitate your hp or you are already warping out.

Alternately, sometimes in fleet fights you can guage when your numbers been picked. Not every yellow box becomes a red box at the exact same instant. So oh look on your watch list or over comms someone in your fleet just went down and you just saw a couple yellows turn red. Click. Now fewer yellows in overview can start turning red. Again this may or may not be enough to allow warp out or your logis to pull you back.

Tbh, this probably beats the alternative of nerfing artillery alpha in a lot of people's minds. I still think alpha and slowed rof on arty was overdone, but this is a creative solution to the alpha fleet problem. So I have to commend CCP on this one despite my initial horror at seeing what looked like a new ecm module.

And, OP, this was obviously not intended as a pve module. I think the inclusion of Marauders was simply to include all BS classes in the ability to use it for consistency sake.

So, as for pvp whether it will indeed perform as intended we will know in a month or a few weeks or so. I don't think balls will have anything to do with a decision to fit it. It will boil down to whether it can actually paritally counter an alpha fleet- whether it performs as a percent chance to survive an alpha from the get go, or instead operates as a method to speed up the threshhold of reaching a point where your fleet has killed enough alpha maels to no longer die instantly to the alpha strike. Will be interesting to see if it's stats as presently set work as intended, or not enough or too much and whether it gets altered once it has become apparent which is the situation.

edit- There you go CCP. Here's some overdue praise for your introduction of this module. o7 I'm ashamed of my flame post in the test server thread.OopsP

edit 2- also, OP, you seem to think there is no tank but a mid slot tank. There are ships that low slot tank. And their logis reps activate at the end of the cycle so putting it as a mid slot is fine. Other than a DC or armor hardeners I'm presently drawing a blank as to any other active low slot item. This mod obviously need to be highly energized like most ewar (all midslot) to have an effect, and thus it is midslot.


Unfortunately, it's not a gtfo quick mod. It's more of a 'I need to reduce incoming dps'. Like I've said before, I challenge you to try this out in null sec as a gtfo quick option and see how you do.

So there you are, yellow boxes on the overview. You hit your fancy new mod...but wait, only (generously) half of the ships loose their lock. And by the way, of that half, a quarter was your logi. That scenario you proposed will most likely only exist in the best of cases and in very few occurrences.

I do think you have a point against an alpha fleet if you're trying to get back to gate or station. As this mod doesn't cause aggression timer to kick in. Well done on spotting that. I will be anxious to see the results of that (positive for the mod I hope).

This mod is hardly going to be introduced into many PvP fits, but I do think some will attempt it. And I do wish to see that, especially in my space. I'll be having a good time with a BS as it puts on the light show in an attempt to retreat.

I do still believe this is mainly for PvE, the penalty to scan res makes it hardly worth putting on a BS for PvP. If it was outright for PvP I'm sure it wouldn't have such a high scan res penalty. I've seen it time and time again, that CCP considers ships/mods intended for PvE to have a lower scan res and sensor strength. It's just history, not opinion. So no one can say it's 'not a pve mod'. That's just not going to sit well ever.

You're right on the tank, it's called armor/daft hull tanking (guess you could call it low slot tanking). It's how amarr and gallante tank and sometimes minmatar. You're forgetting about Heavy Interdictors, that use a high slot for the mobile warp disruption field. That's an ewar mod as well. Neuts and Vamps also 'could' fall into that category as well. Thing is, the ships this mod was designed for have (usually) more high slots than they can fit guns.

I appreciate your input, that alpha fleet counter will be interesting. I can't wait to see how that turns out.




TotalRapeage
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2012-05-24 02:20:53 UTC
Cambarus wrote:
TotalRapeage wrote:
Tamiya Sarossa wrote:
I'm pretty sure it's aimed at large fleet battles, not helping you break NPC tackles. Get it tested in a proper fleet fight with 500+ people and then get back to us?

EDIT: and to be honest the Black Ops and Marauder inclusion is probably for consistency since they're the only other BS-class ships out there, not out of any misplaced hope that they'll frequently fit them. It would be more odd if they couldn't, tbh.




Note: Will affect all targeting computers, including those of friendly vessels and of the host ship itself.



What's this thing do to other ships in your fleet as far as their ability to target the enemy? Also, due to the 50% scan res hit you take for fitting this, I just don't see this being used in fleets unless your talking disco fleets.

This module is more of a GTFO for a solo travel fit or disco bs.
As someone whose name starts with a C, I could see fitting this on a fleet ship.



might as well fit warp stabs while your at it and gimp your ship even more and go down like a true carebear.Twisted
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#26 - 2012-05-24 05:54:47 UTC
i am thinking this mod would do nicely on a domi fleet...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Crellion
Nano Rhinos
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#27 - 2012-05-24 06:57:33 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
i am thinking this mod would do nicely on a domi fleet...



If it affect everyone on grid I d be obliged to agree 0_0

also +1 to Cambarus... I know something about fleet fights and char names starting with a C myself...
Sradoc
Sradoc Corporation
#28 - 2012-05-24 13:41:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Sradoc
I think maybe the best use of this mod (so far that I've figured) would be if you're doing sites in low/null sec. Say you have 30+ NPCs, and then a lone bomber or recon hot drops you. Well now you have 30+ what ever they bring in. The mod all of a sudden becomes a lot more useful.

It may break the lock of the PvPers and/or allow the NPCs to retarget the aggressing fleet.

Makes sense, especially for Marauders.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2012-05-24 13:55:20 UTC
Sradoc wrote:
I think maybe the best use of this mod (so far that I've figured) would be if you're doing sites in low/null sec. Say you have 30+ NPCs, and then a lone bomber or recon hot drops you. Well now you have 30+ what ever they bring in. The mod all of a sudden becomes a lot more useful.

It may break the lock of the PvPers and/or allow the NPCs to retarget the aggressing fleet.

Makes sense, especially for Marauders.

I kind of like the idea of marauders filling a niche as nullsec anom runners. I'd like to see how this would play out (being part of the hotdrop fleet Twisted)

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#30 - 2012-05-24 13:57:47 UTC
Sradoc wrote:

Makes sense, especially for Marauders.


You really want this mod to fit on a marauder...
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#31 - 2012-05-24 14:13:31 UTC
Can anyone tell me if the modules has a X chance to break ALL locks, or for each individual lock a X chance to break it?

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!

Sradoc
Sradoc Corporation
#32 - 2012-05-24 16:29:55 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Sradoc wrote:

Makes sense, especially for Marauders.


You really want this mod to fit on a marauder...


This mod does fit on a marauder, what is there to want?
Sradoc
Sradoc Corporation
#33 - 2012-05-24 16:31:49 UTC
Tobiaz wrote:
Can anyone tell me if the modules has a X chance to break ALL locks, or for each individual lock a X chance to break it?


Each lock has X chance to be broken. Oddly though, breaking the originating ship's lock is 100%.
Sradoc
Sradoc Corporation
#34 - 2012-05-24 16:45:29 UTC
I tested my theory (anti site gank) in a null sec site, and had a buddy of mine warp in as if he was going to tackle me for a red fleet.

Did it 5 times, and I had a 0% success rate at getting out of there 'alive'. And, actually a couple times I almost lost my ship because I only broke 3 of the 20 NPCs lock, but never the test tackle.

Then my buddy proposed "ok, now let me try it in a dictor"...yeah, idea crushed.

I fit a armor BS, but chewing up the mid slot I'd normally have for boosters I couldn't run the reppers...so whom ever it was that said the mid slot doesn't affect the armor tank needs to give it a go. It DOES hurt the tank, seriously.

Sooo, I wouldn't say using this mod to avoid being ganked doing null sec sites is a good idea.

This mod, from what I can see is for the hardcore care bear who needs to have maybe 3 seconds of 5% less dps because they weren't aligned out.

I've tested all I can stand with this thing, I hope others don't die a horrible death (unless it's me killing you) while you use it.
Sjofn Ogsdottr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2012-05-24 17:50:59 UTC
OK, so the use of this new module in PvE / PvP is still debateable.

I haven't seen the mod's restrictions, could this be used on a Blockade Runner? Along the lines of materializing the other side of a gate in low-sec, only to run into a camp. Align/TSB/Warp/Cloak? And does it count as offensive by CONCORD?
Cunanium
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2012-05-24 20:06:23 UTC
Sradoc wrote:
I tested my theory (anti site gank) in a null sec site, and had a buddy of mine warp in as if he was going to tackle me for a red fleet.

Did it 5 times, and I had a 0% success rate at getting out of there 'alive'. And, actually a couple times I almost lost my ship because I only broke 3 of the 20 NPCs lock, but never the test tackle.

Then my buddy proposed "ok, now let me try it in a dictor"...yeah, idea crushed.

I fit a armor BS, but chewing up the mid slot I'd normally have for boosters I couldn't run the reppers...so whom ever it was that said the mid slot doesn't affect the armor tank needs to give it a go. It DOES hurt the tank, seriously.

Sooo, I wouldn't say using this mod to avoid being ganked doing null sec sites is a good idea.

This mod, from what I can see is for the hardcore care bear who needs to have maybe 3 seconds of 5% less dps because they weren't aligned out.

I've tested all I can stand with this thing, I hope others don't die a horrible death (unless it's me killing you) while you use it.



Your problem here.... reppers.

This is an awesome module. Can't wait for it to be fitted on a bait domi. Can't wait until we get the first videos of a ship jumping into a camp, seeing fast tackle run at them only to have their locks broken as the ship aligns and warps off. This is of course not guaranteed, but is a lot more reliable than ECM drones.

Hell it might even be used simply for reducing incoming dps to allow the fleet to make it there before the domi pops (I have been on the bad end of a poor calculation of tank durability when baiting more times then I really should have...)

Would you call ECM drones useless because their chance to jam is significantly less than that of a falcon and they take valuable warrior 2's out of your drone bay?

You have a misplaced idea that this is intended for doctrine fit, pve fit, or anything regular. And I'm sorry, but anyone who puts this on a marauder... lawl. This is not a typical module like tanking or prop mods. Its a lightweight version of ECM burst, which I have seen used to devastating effect. Ever had a triage carrier attempting to tactically refit for resists while being primaried and have an ECM burst go off at just the right time to let his local reppers save his ass? Yeah. There is a purpose for this.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2012-05-24 21:14:42 UTC
http://jestertrek.blogspot.com/2012/05/well-thats-about-same.html

This module fails.

Why can't CCP just implement aoe on ship destruction in null. What's wrong with the tried and true method of blob control in every other game that it's not good enough for Eve?Roll
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2012-05-24 21:24:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Mfume Apocal
sabre906 wrote:
http://jestertrek.blogspot.com/2012/05/well-thats-about-same.html

This module fails.

Why can't CCP just implement aoe on ship destruction in null. What's wrong with the tried and true method of blob control in every other game that it's not good enough for Eve?Roll


Probably because they want sig-tanked, close range comps like AHACs to remain viable and not reduce fleet warfare to a collection of the biggest brick tanked arty boats pounding each other until the first side to lose a ship has the rest of it's fleet explode.
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#39 - 2012-05-24 23:21:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Cambarus
TotalRapeage wrote:

might as well fit warp stabs while your at it and gimp your ship even more and go down like a true carebear.Twisted

If you can't imagine a reason why breaking the locks of 500 ships might be something worth doing then name calling isn't going to change the fact that you're a moron :)

sabre906 wrote:
http://jestertrek.blogspot.com/2012/05/well-thats-about-same.html

This module fails.

An interesting post, but it mentions that the chance of success goes up with each new person locking you, and then proceeds to theorycraft with the assumption that having 100 and a 30 man gang would result in both sides having an equal chance of success.

The no BPO thing was a terrible idea on CCPs part though, not sure what they were thinking.
Mechael
Tribal Liberation Distribution and Retail
#40 - 2012-05-25 00:17:09 UTC
Cambarus wrote:
The no BPO thing was a terrible idea on CCPs part though, not sure what they were thinking.


I really don't understand this either. Makes me a little angry, to be honest. So much for the idea that most of the stuff in the game is made by players. Rare faction/complex/officer stuff is one thing, but this is just too much.

Whether or not you win the game matters not.  It's if you bought it.

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