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Missile trails kill my framerate and what is that sound???

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Exarch Drake Silverhand
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#121 - 2012-05-24 15:16:39 UTC
I have all effects, except missile trails.

V Card: Radeon X1950Pro
Drivers: v. 12.4 ( release date 25/4/2012, newest )
System: Windows 7 x86

I have no problem with performance, on medium details. All effects are of course on.
Bob Niac
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#122 - 2012-05-24 16:32:24 UTC
CCP Choloepus wrote:
Just to keep you guys in the loop, we've got the same kind of extreme performance drop reproduced in our compatibility lab. However, when I moved one of the offending ATI cards to my dev PC for more testing (confirming my original card could have doubled as a cooking implement), the performance decrease was markedly reduced. Rather than adding around 50ms to the average frame time and tanking the game to ~20fps, the hit was closer to 10ms and left the game at a reasonable 50-60 frames per second. My development box is actually slower/worse than the test computer in terms of CPU etc.

To be clear, 10ms is still way too much overhead. GPU particles on this kind of hardware should be taking one or two milliseconds, but there's something else going on that is exacerbating the problem.

I also noticed that asteroid belts were causing a large performance drop with this hardware until shadows were disabled, which we're investigating as well. We'd be interested in knowing your shadow settings, should anyone else notice a severe drop in frame rate when looking at spacerocks or other dense collections of solid objects.


As I have stated, It is most likely Nvidia related code. Physx maybe?

[u]I <3 Logistics:[/u] Pilot of all  T2 logi and my shiny Archon [deceased.] Also a Chimera which may or may not be horrid. I don't make games, I play them. I get that ppl are passionate about change. I post here to plant seeds. You see your idea as is? Holy **** you win! So let's post, and see what the DEVs and our peers use.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#123 - 2012-05-24 17:18:12 UTC
Shreya Esil wrote:
I'm running crossfire Radeon HD 5750s.

Generally speaking EvE is smooth, however I will lose 80% of my frames with any sort of volumetric fog/smoke effects.
Most notably, ladar sites, base in clouds etc.

This patch has only compounded the issue.

Lighting effects through the fog creates additional performance issues, for instance, your ship fighting in the fog and your camera pointed at the sun/star.



+1. same issues w/ AMD Radeon HD 6970M 2GB GDDR5 on a 3.4GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7, win7 64bit

Theres some very bad AMD/ATI mojo happening (pre existing to Inferno) w/ fog/smoke effects.....made worse by Inferno

Would you like to know more?
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
#124 - 2012-05-24 17:41:16 UTC
Have to agree on the sound.

Must be a joke, yeah?
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#125 - 2012-05-24 17:53:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Bloodpetal
CCP Choloepus wrote:
Just to keep you guys in the loop, we've got the same kind of extreme performance drop reproduced in our compatibility lab. However, when I moved one of the offending ATI cards to my dev PC for more testing (confirming my original card could have doubled as a cooking implement), the performance decrease was markedly reduced. Rather than adding around 50ms to the average frame time and tanking the game to ~20fps, the hit was closer to 10ms and left the game at a reasonable 50-60 frames per second. My development box is actually slower/worse than the test computer in terms of CPU etc.

To be clear, 10ms is still way too much overhead. GPU particles on this kind of hardware should be taking one or two milliseconds, but there's something else going on that is exacerbating the problem.

I also noticed that asteroid belts were causing a large performance drop with this hardware until shadows were disabled, which we're investigating as well. We'd be interested in knowing your shadow settings, should anyone else notice a severe drop in frame rate when looking at spacerocks or other dense collections of solid objects.


I have definitely noticed this effect and performance drop while staring at asteroids. I don't think i've really seen a drop with missiles firing, but I haven't had the chance to really notice.

I don't mind sending you a DX diag page if you tell me where I can throw it at you.

Running Windows 7

Where I am.
Arec Bardwin
#126 - 2012-05-24 18:05:39 UTC
Exarch Drake Silverhand wrote:
I have all effects, except missile trails.

V Card: Radeon X1950Pro
Drivers: v. 12.4 ( release date 25/4/2012, newest )
System: Windows 7 x86

I have no problem with performance, on medium details. All effects are of course on.

Exact same problem here.
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#127 - 2012-05-24 18:37:28 UTC
Btw guys I'm not sure if this is related in the same way but often times I'm getting cases where missiles never hit a target and they just disappear when I am WELL within range (orbiting at 8km for 11km rockets) and for every case that they disappear I don't get any damage hits yet I've still used ammo.

Any ideas? The times the missiles disappear seems to be totally random and it seems to reduce in frequency when I put my camera focus on the target I'm attacking.

The Drake is a Lie
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#128 - 2012-05-24 18:45:26 UTC
Xercodo wrote:
Btw guys I'm not sure if this is related in the same way but often times I'm getting cases where missiles never hit a target and they just disappear when I am WELL within range (orbiting at 8km for 11km rockets) and for every case that they disappear I don't get any damage hits yet I've still used ammo.

Any ideas? The times the missiles disappear seems to be totally random and it seems to reduce in frequency when I put my camera focus on the target I'm attacking.

I had this happen pre patch, so not related woudl be my guess.

Only seen it with rockets too.



I have had no performance issues. And my system is not top of the line, about 2-4 years old.
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#129 - 2012-05-24 20:17:16 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
Xercodo wrote:
Btw guys I'm not sure if this is related in the same way but often times I'm getting cases where missiles never hit a target and they just disappear when I am WELL within range (orbiting at 8km for 11km rockets) and for every case that they disappear I don't get any damage hits yet I've still used ammo.

Any ideas? The times the missiles disappear seems to be totally random and it seems to reduce in frequency when I put my camera focus on the target I'm attacking.

I had this happen pre patch, so not related woudl be my guess.

Only seen it with rockets too.



I have had no performance issues. And my system is not top of the line, about 2-4 years old.


With you saying it's only rockets has me suspecting that it's a problem cause by their frequent rate of fire.
Somehow they leave the tube without getting ship or player skill bonuses applied and thus have a shorter flight time or slower velocity which results in them never reaching target and the server simply reading it as a "missile lifetime over, no damage" instance.

The Drake is a Lie
CCP Zorba
C C P
C C P Alliance
#130 - 2012-05-24 23:03:07 UTC
Janus Nightmare wrote:
Particle effects in this game destroy framerates. Even just those silly cloud effects in missions where they're there for nothing more than cosmetic reasons.

Sellendis wrote:
Can any DEV take a look at dust clouds. They kill FPS like insane.

Rest assured, clouds will with 100% certainty be addressed for next release, so winter expansion at latest, possibly much earlier depending on how we handle the problem. There is internal debate about them every single day since they not just look visually awful, but they are the last components of the old rendering system we want to remove. When we decide or open up for feedback, I'll push to get a dev blog for it.

Xercodo wrote:
Btw guys I'm not sure if this is related in the same way but often times I'm getting cases where missiles never hit a target and they just disappear when I am WELL within range (orbiting at 8km for 11km rockets) and for every case that they disappear I don't get any damage hits yet I've still used ammo.

Any ideas? The times the missiles disappear seems to be totally random and it seems to reduce in frequency when I put my camera focus on the target I'm attacking.


The actual missile simulation is done on the server, so nothing you do on your client (where camera is) should have any effect. And the server stuff didn't change for missiles so nothing about that behavior would have changed. Any more information you can give to reproduce this would be helpful since even our super-helpful QA testers would have trouble figuring out how to reproduce this.

CCP Zorba | EVE Online Technical Director | @techartistsorg
OnaNisM
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#131 - 2012-05-25 01:43:11 UTC
I like the new effect for missile but there's a few problems


  1. It's hard to see missiles coming towards you as there's no more flare like trail to see them.

  2. The missile sound hitting my ship is deafening and kill all other sound in game. Whatever if I put the view distance from my ship from 1 km to 10 km, the only damn sound I hear is that booooom. My whole desktop's shaking even if I lower the sub volume. Missile explosion have to be on par with other turret sound.


Got no issue with framerate on my GTX 680 but I guess that not everybody want to spend 500$ on a video card...
Hammer Crendraven
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#132 - 2012-05-25 05:23:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Hammer Crendraven
Hammer Crendraven wrote:
I have shadows set to medium and I get a 40% frame rate drop with structures or missiles.
I have a Nvidia 9800GT graphics card.
I do not have the latest driver installed.
Win XP and directx 9.0c
E8600 socket 775 quad core CPU

If I turn shadows to off I get no frame rate drop.


I updated to the latest driver and my issue remains unchanged.

In fact I was able to turn every setting on high max out everything when I disabled shadows.
I get around 100 fps with every setting maxed out and shadows disabled.
Even around structures or with missiles flying.
Biff Rodgers
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#133 - 2012-05-25 05:41:01 UTC
I've not got any issue with performance and I'm running an old 2007 box, (sorry no details, at work) but it's awesome all round, including the sound.
Each missle type has it's own sound too.

I'll play round with the graphics later but even as it's set now it's great.

Just sad about the inventory thing.
Shame we don't have a choise wether to use the old UI or the new one.
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#134 - 2012-05-25 06:08:46 UTC
CCP Zorba wrote:

Xercodo wrote:
Btw guys I'm not sure if this is related in the same way but often times I'm getting cases where missiles never hit a target and they just disappear when I am WELL within range (orbiting at 8km for 11km rockets) and for every case that they disappear I don't get any damage hits yet I've still used ammo.

Any ideas? The times the missiles disappear seems to be totally random and it seems to reduce in frequency when I put my camera focus on the target I'm attacking.


The actual missile simulation is done on the server, so nothing you do on your client (where camera is) should have any effect. And the server stuff didn't change for missiles so nothing about that behavior would have changed. Any more information you can give to reproduce this would be helpful since even our super-helpful QA testers would have trouble figuring out how to reproduce this.


All I can say is to try a Vengeance with rockets and while running a MWD

My rocket range is about 11km and i orbit at about 7 for a stretched out real orbit from 8-10.

I tend to notice these issues most when I know I've already well established my orbit after the initial sling-shotting that the approach causes.

The Drake is a Lie
Hoshi
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#135 - 2012-05-25 06:33:30 UTC
Xercodo wrote:

All I can say is to try a Vengeance with rockets and while running a MWD

My rocket range is about 11km and i orbit at about 7 for a stretched out real orbit from 8-10.

I tend to notice these issues most when I know I've already well established my orbit after the initial sling-shotting that the approach causes.

Effective range of missiles is shorter than theoretical range as they need to accelerate and doesn't travel in a perfect line.
So even if you are both sitting still you will get shorter than the theoretical range, and if one or both of you are moving it's going to be reduced even further.

"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."
Sellendis
The Ares project
#136 - 2012-05-25 12:12:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Sellendis
Tested on a friends rig:
some 8 core AMD (freshly bought, he told me the model at least 15 times, and i still forgot),
16gb ram
560 Ti OC nVidia + latest drivers
Win7 x64

My rig:
E6500
HD6850 + 12.4 drivers
4gb ram
Win7 x64

All effects at high, shadows and AA turned off.

We did 2 missions to get some results to compare.
On Pirate invasion (sansha) we got aggro entire pocket, lasers all around, fps at 60 rock solid for both of us.

2nd mission was The Assault (missiles all-around), in second pocket crap hit the singularity. Zoomed in so ship takes 1/4 of the screen. If i am crapping missiles with all effects i might as well look closely. Aggroed 2 groups, so about 10 ships shooting at us.
Looking at the incoming missiles and kinetic hit shockwave, killed our FPS to 30...for both of us.
Top-down view or full frontal so we dont see incoming ordinance, got us to 45-50FPS.
Effects off gives back 60fps.

So how the hell did a vastly superior PC with more cpu/gpu power than my old crap, in same on screen condition, with a nVidia card have the same problem?
Ok, lets rule out crappy windows, we tried a new and fresh "win+drivers+eve" install on a SSD and same thing happens.
If we zoom out it gets better, but we cant see crap then. On medium zoom nVidia showed almost no FPS drop, my ATI wasnt so lucky.
On fully zoomed ship under fire, FPS got scammed on a Goon recruitment background check and ragequit. :)

Few ships hitting us wasn't a big performance drop, more ships = more problems. Both smoke trails and hit effects give a noticeable hit on their own. Fleet fights are gonna be a "missile effects off" primary for now.

I still wanna get a nVidia card next, but kinda happy my 6850 isn't useless crap yet.
Rootax
Spike Spiegel Never Dies
#137 - 2012-05-26 12:23:41 UTC
CCP Choloepus wrote:
...

I also noticed that asteroid belts were causing a large performance drop with this hardware until shadows were disabled, which we're investigating as well. We'd be interested in knowing your shadow settings, should anyone else notice a severe drop in frame rate when looking at spacerocks or other dense collections of solid objects.


This problem has been here for a while now. It was here in Incarna, and maybe before that.

I've a Q6600, 4gb and a 5770 1gb. I dual box for mining, and I always was surprised by how sluggish it was. I tried different resolutions, lowering everything (even shadow on low), etc, same stuff.I though the UI was to blame first, with lot of locked things. It was only when I totally disabled shadows that "boom", my fps were back, and I can put other settings back on decent levels.

My english is pretty limited as you can see but If you need more info / diag / dump file, you can ask me in private, no problem.
Dieter Rams
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#138 - 2012-05-26 16:31:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Dieter Rams
CCP Zorba wrote:
Janus Nightmare wrote:
Particle effects in this game destroy framerates. Even just those silly cloud effects in missions where they're there for nothing more than cosmetic reasons.

Sellendis wrote:
Can any DEV take a look at dust clouds. They kill FPS like insane.

Rest assured, clouds will with 100% certainty be addressed for next release, so winter expansion at latest, possibly much earlier depending on how we handle the problem. There is internal debate about them every single day since they not just look visually awful, but they are the last components of the old rendering system we want to remove. When we decide or open up for feedback, I'll push to get a dev blog for it.


Music to my ears, make this happen ASAP!

There are many players that suffer this on a daily basis, it breaks the gameplay experience.
TheSpyInCorp
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#139 - 2012-05-26 17:51:59 UTC  |  Edited by: TheSpyInCorp
Ituhata Saken wrote:


Lol

My GTX560Ti will run at around 80 C if I don't force the fan to run at 70% or more. Now, I don't feel like doing the math to convert it so something my simple American mind can understand, but I do believe that is too hot to touch. P I hear alot of people say that's really bad for the card, I can't understand why the auto-fan insists on letting it get that high. Do the manufacturers not feel the same way, or is it a super sekrat conspiracy to burn out their cards, insuring future sales for new cards? Inquiring minds want to know.


the max temperature for GTX 560 Ti is 99°C that temperature is nothing at all to worry about (also if you want to convert something, go to google and type 80 c in f)

another thing, if you don't have a filter on your computer case's intake, you WILL GET DUST. Get a can of compressed air, take your card out, and blow out all the dust with it.
TheSpyInCorp
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#140 - 2012-05-26 17:53:31 UTC
TheSpyInCorp wrote:
[quote=Ituhata Saken]

Lol

My GTX560Ti will run at around 80 C if I don't force the fan to run at 70% or more. Now, I don't feel like doing the math to convert it so something my simple American mind can understand, but I do believe that is too hot to touch. P I hear alot of people say that's really bad for the card, I can't understand why the auto-fan insists on letting it get that high. Do the manufacturers not feel the same way, or is it a super sekrat conspiracy to burn out their cards, insuring future sales for new cards? Inquiring minds want to know.


the max temperature for GTX 560 Ti is 99°C that temperature is nothing at all to worry about (also if you want to convert something, go to google and type 80 c in f)

another thing, if you don't have a filter on your computer case's intake, you WILL GET DUST. Get a can of compressed air, take your card out, and blow out all the dust with it.