These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Missile trails kill my framerate and what is that sound???

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Bob Niac
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#101 - 2012-05-24 02:31:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Bob Niac
First: Mars.. AMD has been out of the server / industrial side of computing for a while now. Not by choice, but as the CCP operations team can attest, Intel has out shined AMD in the coporate market for a while now. Shame, but I have my hopes in the next two years. So yeah, I share the opinion that you are trolling.

One last tidbit for GPU drivers: VSync. You're doing it wrong. Or rather.. It's older tech and unless your still on a CRT or not using a progressive scan monitor, turn it off, its an artificial FPS limiter.

Progressive scan basically is any DVI/HDMI capable monitor. So lile 99% of modern flat panel screens, including HDTV.

[u]I <3 Logistics:[/u] Pilot of all  T2 logi and my shiny Archon [deceased.] Also a Chimera which may or may not be horrid. I don't make games, I play them. I get that ppl are passionate about change. I post here to plant seeds. You see your idea as is? Holy **** you win! So let's post, and see what the DEVs and our peers use.
Aineko Macx
#102 - 2012-05-24 05:45:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Aineko Macx
Bob Niac wrote:
One last tidbit for GPU drivers: VSync. You're doing it wrong. Or rather.. It's older tech and unless your still on a CRT or not using a progressive scan monitor, turn it off, its an artificial FPS limiter.

Progressive scan basically is any DVI/HDMI capable monitor. So lile 99% of modern flat panel screens, including HDTV.

No.
None of the modern LCDs has a "scan" anymore, not like CRTs. The benefit of turning vsync off is larger on CRTs because of the already lower latency and the possibility of much higher refresh rates, while LCDs have input lag, longer reaction time and are locked to 60Hz refresh making the latency benefit relatively small. Both experience the image tearing as side-effect (= image fragments, since the picture buffer swaps occur as soon as the GPU is finished rendering a frame without waiting for the timed end of the current frame).

I would only turn off vsync with LCDs if your gfx card is unable to maintain the 60Hz most of the time. If it's running at much higher than that with vsync off you're basically just wasting processing power, incurring heat, etc.

iveeCore 3.0: The PHP engine for industrial activities and CREST library
Gealbhan
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#103 - 2012-05-24 05:54:41 UTC
My machine is what you would class as old:

Intel Quad Core 2.40Ghz (4 CPUs)

ATI Radeon HD 5500 (2Gig)

4Gb RAM

& running Win Vista 32bit.


I have no lag or FPS drop what so ever using missiles...

Weird Arrow
Hammer Crendraven
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#104 - 2012-05-24 06:10:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Hammer Crendraven
Gealbhan wrote:
My machine is what you would class as old:

Intel Quad Core 2.40Ghz (4 CPUs)

ATI Radeon HD 5500 (2Gig)

4Gb RAM

& running Win Vista 32bit.


I have no lag or FPS drop what so ever using missiles...

Weird Arrow



But what are your graphics settings? I bet you are at medium or lower on most settings. So do you have particle effects enabled?
And their is another setting I forget exactly what it is called HDR post processing I think, do you have that on or off?
I suspect you have the graphic settings low enough that you are not being impacted by this issue.
If you turned everything on high you most likely would be impacted just like everybody else.
But your base fps would be only around 30 fps and with missiles probably around 8 fps.

Something else bothers me about this. Vista can support higher than directX 9.0c
So can win 7.
Win XP is limited to directX 9.0c
This might have something to do with this issue as well.

One more thought the problem might be connected to the sound file as well.
I have a sound blaster sound card and see no impact from missiles on my system
E8600@ 3.33 GHz socket 775 CPU quad core
Nvida 9800GT video
Sound blaster plantinum
Win XP
FPS normally runs at 100+ In warp it runs at 170 fps.
When a lot of stuff is on screen it will drop to about 60 fps missiles or just a lot of space junk in a mission for example.
Note: FPS drop for me is the same for space junk or missiles. No difference just the extra stuff on the display draws it down to about 60 fps.

All my optional settings are enabled.
Graphics are mostly all on high
3 are on medium I can not remember off hand which 3.
I am not posting from home so I can not check it.
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#105 - 2012-05-24 08:15:28 UTC
Zyress wrote:
AkaiDruiD II wrote:
I do hope ccp isn't tryin to sell out to nvidia and focus their developing towards 'The Popular Corporation'
I use ATI/AMD, and have for many years, they OC better and are more stable than nvidia/intel. I know this from many years of experience. Just because nvidia, intel, and microsoft are trying to monopolize the market, doesn't mean they are better, in fact, in their case, it's very much the contrary. Any1 can sell crap if they advert it everywhere and make it cheap enuf for a noob to buy.


I use my PC as a HTPC as well as gaming and the only card with an HDMI output that supported putting out full HDMI 7.1 sound was an AMD card, haven't had the chance to log on yet and see how it works now but just saying nVidia isn't all that.


Honestly don't know what my HDMI out is capable of on my video card, but it seem to output pretty decent sound in 2.1 anyway. Blink ATi definitely has a good focus on multi-monitor and sound capability. One reason they make good cards for media entertainment. I've never needed more than 2.1 and don't have the sound system for anything else, so I don't worry about it.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
CCP Choloepus
C C P
C C P Alliance
#106 - 2012-05-24 10:43:24 UTC
Just to keep you guys in the loop, we've got the same kind of extreme performance drop reproduced in our compatibility lab. However, when I moved one of the offending ATI cards to my dev PC for more testing (confirming my original card could have doubled as a cooking implement), the performance decrease was markedly reduced. Rather than adding around 50ms to the average frame time and tanking the game to ~20fps, the hit was closer to 10ms and left the game at a reasonable 50-60 frames per second. My development box is actually slower/worse than the test computer in terms of CPU etc.

To be clear, 10ms is still way too much overhead. GPU particles on this kind of hardware should be taking one or two milliseconds, but there's something else going on that is exacerbating the problem.

I also noticed that asteroid belts were causing a large performance drop with this hardware until shadows were disabled, which we're investigating as well. We'd be interested in knowing your shadow settings, should anyone else notice a severe drop in frame rate when looking at spacerocks or other dense collections of solid objects.
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#107 - 2012-05-24 10:49:16 UTC
CCP Choloepus wrote:
Just to keep you guys in the loop, we've got the same kind of extreme performance drop reproduced in our compatibility lab. However, when I moved one of the offending ATI cards to my dev PC for more testing (confirming my original card could have doubled as a cooking implement), the performance decrease was markedly reduced. Rather than adding around 50ms to the average frame time and tanking the game to ~20fps, the hit was closer to 10ms and left the game at a reasonable 50-60 frames per second. My development box is actually slower/worse than the test computer in terms of CPU etc.

To be clear, 10ms is still way too much overhead. GPU particles on this kind of hardware should be taking one or two milliseconds, but there's something else going on that is exacerbating the problem.

I also noticed that asteroid belts were causing a large performance drop with this hardware until shadows were disabled, which we're investigating as well. We'd be interested in knowing your shadow settings, should anyone else notice a severe drop in frame rate when looking at spacerocks or other dense collections of solid objects.


Can you teach your co-workers to give replies like this? Open, fast responses that actually has some quality content?

If whole CCP would do this.. but thumbs up to you!

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
Zhihatsu
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#108 - 2012-05-24 10:53:19 UTC
Misanth wrote:
CCP Choloepus wrote:
Just to keep you guys in the loop, we've got the same kind of extreme performance drop reproduced in our compatibility lab. However, when I moved one of the offending ATI cards to my dev PC for more testing (confirming my original card could have doubled as a cooking implement), the performance decrease was markedly reduced. Rather than adding around 50ms to the average frame time and tanking the game to ~20fps, the hit was closer to 10ms and left the game at a reasonable 50-60 frames per second. My development box is actually slower/worse than the test computer in terms of CPU etc.

To be clear, 10ms is still way too much overhead. GPU particles on this kind of hardware should be taking one or two milliseconds, but there's something else going on that is exacerbating the problem.

I also noticed that asteroid belts were causing a large performance drop with this hardware until shadows were disabled, which we're investigating as well. We'd be interested in knowing your shadow settings, should anyone else notice a severe drop in frame rate when looking at spacerocks or other dense collections of solid objects.


Can you teach your co-workers to give replies like this? Open, fast responses that actually has some quality content?

If whole CCP would do this.. but thumbs up to you!


He probably has an easier time seeing as he was the main person coding the whole project.

People without faces have no mouths with which to speak.
Franz7657
DreddNaut
#109 - 2012-05-24 11:02:37 UTC
CCP Choloepus wrote:
Just to keep you guys in the loop, we've got the same kind of extreme performance drop reproduced in our compatibility lab. However, when I moved one of the offending ATI cards to my dev PC for more testing (confirming my original card could have doubled as a cooking implement), the performance decrease was markedly reduced. Rather than adding around 50ms to the average frame time and tanking the game to ~20fps, the hit was closer to 10ms and left the game at a reasonable 50-60 frames per second. My development box is actually slower/worse than the test computer in terms of CPU etc.

To be clear, 10ms is still way too much overhead. GPU particles on this kind of hardware should be taking one or two milliseconds, but there's something else going on that is exacerbating the problem.

I also noticed that asteroid belts were causing a large performance drop with this hardware until shadows were disabled, which we're investigating as well. We'd be interested in knowing your shadow settings, should anyone else notice a severe drop in frame rate when looking at spacerocks or other dense collections of solid objects.


just tested, and yes, i notice a 30-40% loss on both 7750 & 7950
all setting are on high including shadow
Arec Bardwin
#110 - 2012-05-24 11:13:53 UTC
I can't even see ANY missile effects at all on my older computer, granted it has an old radeon X1950 gfx card. Played around with the settings but couldn't get the missile effects to show.
Janus Nightmare
Exploding Kitties
#111 - 2012-05-24 11:30:20 UTC
CCP Choloepus wrote:
Great, thanks! GPU particles really shouldn't be eating ~50ms of frame time, we'll check this out.


Particle effects in this game destroy framerates. Even just those silly cloud effects in missions where they're there for nothing more than cosmetic reasons.

I admit, I'm on a low-end machine, but I can't afford to buy a new one yet and so I often end up running some missions with the map open to keep the framerate up when there's a particle cloud, or I have to zoom way way way out and then I can neither see nor hear what's actually going on in the battle.

Unfortunately I don't have a way to turn off particles on my GPU, otherwise I'd have done it long ago.

Would be nice to have a toggle for particle effects in the graphics settings.
Marcus Harikari
#112 - 2012-05-24 11:38:27 UTC
Works fine with me, i5 with a 7570 radeon...4GB RAM...windows xp (yea yea)
=)
new sounds are awesome thank god you got rid of the annoying pew pew laser sounds they were horrible, i always zoomed far out during PvE combat to avoid them. New missile effects are beautiful.
Nevigrofnu Mrots
Goonswarm Federation
#113 - 2012-05-24 11:57:50 UTC
CCP Choloepus wrote:
Just to keep you guys in the loop, we've got the same kind of extreme performance drop reproduced in our compatibility lab. However, when I moved one of the offending ATI cards to my dev PC for more testing (confirming my original card could have doubled as a cooking implement), the performance decrease was markedly reduced. Rather than adding around 50ms to the average frame time and tanking the game to ~20fps, the hit was closer to 10ms and left the game at a reasonable 50-60 frames per second. My development box is actually slower/worse than the test computer in terms of CPU etc.

To be clear, 10ms is still way too much overhead. GPU particles on this kind of hardware should be taking one or two milliseconds, but there's something else going on that is exacerbating the problem.

I also noticed that asteroid belts were causing a large performance drop with this hardware until shadows were disabled, which we're investigating as well. We'd be interested in knowing your shadow settings, should anyone else notice a severe drop in frame rate when looking at spacerocks or other dense collections of solid objects.



don't know if this helps...

I have an ATI card Radeon HD 6850 series, latest drivers, windows 64, 8GB RAM quad core, I was reading this thread and I was thinking, I have a dual monitor setup (1080p), 4 clients (2 in each) open at all time and I don't see any frame drop and no graphical problems, them I read this post and went to check my settings, I have all graphics options turn ON and with max detail except the following 3 that are OFF: shadows, post-processing and Anti-aliasing

Once I turn on shadows I notice a drop in frame rate, when I turn on post processing my computer freeze, after I reboot and disconnect post-processing and try to connect anti-aliasing to max in all 4 clients my computer freeze again... reboot...

By this time I understood why I had disconnected those 3 setting awhile back...

With this 3 options turn off, I can have all 4 clients running at the same time, be in 1000 man battles with all details ON including brackets and have no problems playing the game.


hope this helps...
Hammer Crendraven
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#114 - 2012-05-24 12:10:09 UTC
I have shadows set to medium and I get a 40% frame rate drop with structures or missiles.
I have a Nvidia 9800GT graphics card.
I do not have the latest driver installed.
Win XP and directx 9.0c

If I turn shadows to off I get no frame rate drop.
Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
#115 - 2012-05-24 12:17:27 UTC
Shadows on high in the belts drops me from 60fps to 45fps. Firing missiles drops that down to 30fps. Similar drops with shadows on low just not as much.

I've had shadows disabled for a long time because they've always caused problems for me.

AMD Radeon HD 6870M

♪ They'll always be bloodclaws to me ♫
Franz7657
DreddNaut
#116 - 2012-05-24 12:23:09 UTC
setting all to the minimum only give me general higher fps, but the problem with missiles still here, allways 50% drop on the 7950 with catalayst 12.4
Sellendis
The Ares project
#117 - 2012-05-24 12:27:12 UTC
Confirming disabled shadows, always had a performance drop, its ok on small number of ships or objects, but in a mission or a belt, its damn noticeable.

6850 1gb + latest drivers

@ CCP Choloepus
Can any DEV take a look at dust clouds. They kill FPS like insane.
Pocket clear of any ships, not looking at dust cloud 60fps, turn screen to dust cloud and hover around 40fps. I understand eye-candy, but dust clouds ingame serve absolutely zero purpose other then kill framerate.
Korg Leaf
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#118 - 2012-05-24 12:27:26 UTC
Core i7 920 with D0 stepping at 3.4ghz
6gb ram
GTX 680 running 301.24 beta drivers (only stable one I could find)
No drop in fps at all
Lordess Trader
Phoenix Evolved Part Duo
#119 - 2012-05-24 12:34:53 UTC
Janus Nightmare wrote:
CCP Choloepus wrote:
Great, thanks! GPU particles really shouldn't be eating ~50ms of frame time, we'll check this out.


Particle effects in this game destroy framerates. Even just those silly cloud effects in missions where they're there for nothing more than cosmetic reasons.

I admit, I'm on a low-end machine, but I can't afford to buy a new one yet and so I often end up running some missions with the map open to keep the framerate up when there's a particle cloud, or I have to zoom way way way out and then I can neither see nor hear what's actually going on in the battle.

Unfortunately I don't have a way to turn off particles on my GPU, otherwise I'd have done it long ago.

Would be nice to have a toggle for particle effects in the graphics settings.


The new particle effects dont cause a big hit or shouldnt is the issue ....

The old clouds are exactly thta OLD there the old way of doing particles and were horrible there horrible even on top of the line cards lol
Lordess Trader
Phoenix Evolved Part Duo
#120 - 2012-05-24 12:37:24 UTC
Nevigrofnu Mrots wrote:
CCP Choloepus wrote:
Just to keep you guys in the loop, we've got the same kind of extreme performance drop reproduced in our compatibility lab. However, when I moved one of the offending ATI cards to my dev PC for more testing (confirming my original card could have doubled as a cooking implement), the performance decrease was markedly reduced. Rather than adding around 50ms to the average frame time and tanking the game to ~20fps, the hit was closer to 10ms and left the game at a reasonable 50-60 frames per second. My development box is actually slower/worse than the test computer in terms of CPU etc.

To be clear, 10ms is still way too much overhead. GPU particles on this kind of hardware should be taking one or two milliseconds, but there's something else going on that is exacerbating the problem.

I also noticed that asteroid belts were causing a large performance drop with this hardware until shadows were disabled, which we're investigating as well. We'd be interested in knowing your shadow settings, should anyone else notice a severe drop in frame rate when looking at spacerocks or other dense collections of solid objects.



don't know if this helps...

I have an ATI card Radeon HD 6850 series, latest drivers, windows 64, 8GB RAM quad core, I was reading this thread and I was thinking, I have a dual monitor setup (1080p), 4 clients (2 in each) open at all time and I don't see any frame drop and no graphical problems, them I read this post and went to check my settings, I have all graphics options turn ON and with max detail except the following 3 that are OFF: shadows, post-processing and Anti-aliasing

Once I turn on shadows I notice a drop in frame rate, when I turn on post processing my computer freeze, after I reboot and disconnect post-processing and try to connect anti-aliasing to max in all 4 clients my computer freeze again... reboot...

By this time I understood why I had disconnected those 3 setting awhile back...

With this 3 options turn off, I can have all 4 clients running at the same time, be in 1000 man battles with all details ON including brackets and have no problems playing the game.


hope this helps...



ya and whats funny here is that ATI is supposed to be better at dealing with AA hits than NVidia lol they always have been better at that 1 thing, yet with eve not so much