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Training curve too steep. Too harsh a timesink.
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Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#101 - 2012-05-22 11:18:15 UTC
I wasn't going to feed the troll anymore, but...

Carniferous wrote:
Hey now with the insults. If your IQ was greater than 70 you would understand the gist of the thread. Instead you're parading around like a tarded fanboi. "O noes, don't insult EVE, it's my entire life"

I was merely pointing out a way EVE could improve you idiot.

In fact I'm glad the masses disagree with me. Otherwise I'd be questioning my own intelligence.


Big smileLolP
Hammer Crendraven
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#102 - 2012-05-22 11:19:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Hammer Crendraven
Note to the OP, How many players do you want in EVE online? Do you want so many that every node is impacted by lag?
It would seem to me that the current numbers are just about right or maybe even already a bit too packed. It is already hard to find explorations sites that are not already picked clean by somebody else. This game by design has a performance limit and I think we are about at it right now. So if we make EVE easier that would be detrimental to the players currently playing the game on several game playing levels. It seems that a good game balance has been achieved to control player populations from exploding to high.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#103 - 2012-05-22 11:19:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Holy One wrote:
CCP don't help themselves with new player retention/conversion. Core skills should train slightly faster, tier 2 and spec skills should train slightly slower.
They kind of already do…

Most core skills are rank 1 or 2; most specialisation skills are ranks 4 and up (which takes 4+ times longer).
Basic competence requires a mere lvl III or IV; specialisation requires V (which takes 5 times longer).
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#104 - 2012-05-22 11:20:54 UTC
Carniferous wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Carniferous wrote:
I appreciate the replies.

However saying that a player with T1 weaps stands a chance in low/nullsec is absurd.

T1 weaps with the best faction ammo do maybe 50 dmg.

T2 cannons do 450 dmg

How the hell is the T1 going to survive? They aren't.


Hi maybe you should look at my alliance's history of murdering veterans in faction fit HACs with T1 fitted Rifters that cost less than our enemies' ammo


Then you are pvp'ing against terrabad players.


Actually they were busy slaughtering the biggest nullsec alliance in the game.

It's totally possible to PVP with T1 weapons, if you have the isk you can even go for meta 4 items which in some cases have a negligible performance loss compared to the T2 items and require less fitting resources.

T2 weapons are not key to PVP, knowing what your ship can and cannot do, friends who can back you up, planning, logistics and actually paying attention are much more important for success, the only thing preventing people from PVP with T1 weaps is imagination.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Hikaru Kuroda
Extheria
#105 - 2012-05-22 11:30:51 UTC
Specialization.

That's what this game is about.

Having to train skills for a couple of months to fully specialize on something, keeps away the people who don't care much about that kind of role, and makes the pilots who are willing to train for it more valuable.

Working as intended for me.
Aemonchichi
Limited Access
#106 - 2012-05-22 11:56:41 UTC
Carniferous wrote:
So I've tried to get a few friends into the game, and it always fails as the training curve in this game is far too steep for the average player.

Heck I even stopped playing for a year because it seemed like I could never get my skills where I wanted them due to long training times.

I'm still trying to figure out the point of the training system from a balancing perspective. I get the business reason for making players wait long periods of time. I just don't get the gameplay reason.

Theoretically anyone can get access to great weapons and ships if they simply know how to click the train now button, and buy training books.

Can't really see how this is working as intended. I bet CCP could get more players if they altered the training system to make it more new player friendly.

Would love to see a response other than "THIS IS BORING, why do I have to wait 2 months in order for training to be done?" from my friends.



bye
Himnos Altar
An Errant Venture
#107 - 2012-05-22 12:02:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Himnos Altar
Carniferous wrote:
Rofl.. That guys post has nothing to do with what I'm saying. Other than the skill decay part.

I'm done with this thread.

If you guys can't understand that rookie entry into this game in 2012 IS AN ABSOLUTE JOKE, I don't know what to tell you.

Numbers will just continue to dwindle. Which will suck, because I actually like this game.



.....continue to dwindle?

........Big smileLolRoll

Confirmed as a troll.

If you're not--Dude, Eve is the ONLY MMO EVER to have positive player growth EVERY DAMN YEAR since launch. Including last year after the Summer of Rage! Fun fact, EVE got an award from its community as the BEST game in a certain category on massively, IIRC. Forget which particular one.

And FYI, it's not really fair to compare T2 BS guns/ammo to T1 Frig guns/ammo.

just....don't.


EDIT: Oh, right.....EVE won GAME OF THE ******* YEAR

title for the category for next year is game of the meh-y year.
Ilnaurk Sithdogron
Blackwater International
#108 - 2012-05-22 12:05:01 UTC
Carniferous wrote:
[quote=Abdiel Kavash]I
Playing the game with T1 weapons is not playing the game. Slamming your head against the wall would be more exciting.


I wish I could say you meant this as a joke, but I know you didn't. I guess I'll just have to settle with hoping you were really drunk or something when you typed this.

If you want to go cry in a corner because your weapons don't do quite as much damage, I guess there's nothing stopping you. But that's like saying "life isn't worth living if I don't start out with a six-digit salary." But no one ever has the best stuff when they start out.

Deal with it.

http://eve-sojourn.blogspot.com/
Epyx Nykee
Grief Management
#109 - 2012-05-22 12:10:37 UTC
Training curve is perfect the way it is, I wouldn't play if some 12yr old could stay awake for a week grinding skills and be 10x farther along than I am.

You talked your friends into playing and they didn't like it so you complained here? Get real, you just want easy skills and CCP doesn't care if your friends quit.

(quit for a year eh, didnt like the game, talked friends into playing now here complaining. Can you contradict yourself anymore in one statement?)

Eve is not dying, your looking at the amount of players on at any given time, not a full player base of people who actually play the game.

Eve can ban 10k players and it's not touching there income or player base. Probably 1/10th of all the current players buy or have purchased GTC's for sale on the market (so each one of those GTC's represents income as if another person was subscribed).
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#110 - 2012-05-22 12:11:47 UTC
The training system is pretty fundamental to what Eve is.

You can't make major changes to it without destroying what the game is all about.

Asking CCP to change things like the SP system in such a way is like asking Blizzard to get rid of the simplistic and outdated levelling system from WoW.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
BATMorpheous
Raytheon Intergalactic Research
Fall From Grace.
#111 - 2012-05-22 12:14:49 UTC
Carniferous wrote:
So I've tried to get a few friends into the game, and it always fails as the training curve in this game is far too steep for the average player.

Heck I even stopped playing for a year because it seemed like I could never get my skills where I wanted them due to long training times.

I'm still trying to figure out the point of the training system from a balancing perspective. I get the business reason for making players wait long periods of time. I just don't get the gameplay reason.

Theoretically anyone can get access to great weapons and ships if they simply know how to click the train now button, and buy training books.

Can't really see how this is working as intended. I bet CCP could get more players if they altered the training system to make it more new player friendly.

Would love to see a response other than "THIS IS BORING, why do I have to wait 2 months in order for training to be done?" from my friends.



im the same on this one but its not the game, or the training mechanics, some people do the trial yell THIS IS FREAKING AWESOME! and get it straight away others just dont get it.
leave the ones that dont get it to go play a game of grinding if thats what they like and concentrate on the eureka people its more rewarding :)
Epyx Nykee
Grief Management
#112 - 2012-05-22 12:18:57 UTC
Server up has been +30'd so thats an extra half hour to troll-o-lol-o-lol the forums.
Guess thats an extra 30 minutes before we all forget there is a forum :p lol
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#113 - 2012-05-22 12:24:33 UTC
Carniferous wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
Carniferous wrote:
Rofl.. That guys post has nothing to do with what I'm saying. Other than the skill decay part.

I'm done with this thread.

If you guys can't understand that rookie entry into this game in 2012 IS AN ABSOLUTE JOKE, I don't know what to tell you.

Numbers will just continue to dwindle. Which will suck, because I actually like this game.



Door --------------->

EvE is 9 years old, and is still growing. You just don't have a clue, go back to WoW.


Hey now with the insults. If your IQ was greater than 70 you would understand the gist of the thread. Instead you're parading around like a tarded fanboi. "O noes, don't insult EVE, it's my entire life"

I was merely pointing out a way EVE could improve you idiot.

In fact I'm glad the masses disagree with me. Otherwise I'd be questioning my own intelligence.


Next time try harder, you are not trying to improve EvE Online, you are trying to kill it.

And BTW, since you have a 2 digit IQ you probably don't understant that you are part ot the masses (theme park mmo mindset player), not us (sandbox mmo players).

The Tears Must Flow
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#114 - 2012-05-22 12:27:40 UTC
rabble rabble I don't want to learn how to use cheap low skill ships I want to be level 80 in 3 months wharglebargle

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
#115 - 2012-05-22 12:41:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Pinstar Colton
Training times are legitimate barriers to entry. If you have a skill that, when all is said and done... takes 30 days to train and provides only a specific benefit, that is a benefit that not every player is going to have. As such, this gives you a benefit over players who did not take the time to train up that skill.

If the skill in question is a combat one, you'll have a benefit over an opponent who didn't take it. If the skill is an economic one, you'll be able to do business in areas where most people can't. Either way, if there wasn't that long training time to get that skill...having that skill would suddenly mean a lot less because everyone else could easily have it too.

The skill system is the perfect example of "You can do anything, but you can't do everything".

A wise EVE Player, even one with low skill points, learns to leverage the skills they do have and prioritize their skill training for a longer term benefit.

In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse.

Rekon X
Doomheim
#116 - 2012-05-22 12:51:56 UTC
The only thing you will get out of this crowd is f-off, I'm leet and you never will be. The older players like there advantage and don't want anything to change that would equalize the playing field. Then they couldn't hunt down those weak little newbies and get easy KM's.

So when you hear HTFU (such a simple minded term), they are just frightened little weasels.

I don't care what you think, if you ever think at all.
Daniel L'Siata
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#117 - 2012-05-22 13:02:49 UTC
Not sure if trolling or genuinely ********.

Quite sure ********.

^ Also, OP, you sound mad. Show us on the doll where the bad character touched you?
isk4trade
Cogitation Mining and Industrial Trading
#118 - 2012-05-22 13:05:39 UTC
I started another character about a month and a half ago ... focused on pvp ... It now has T2 automatic cannons and T2 rockets and many other more basic skills trained up and has over 60 kills for about 5 losses so far.

So that should burn up your can't do pvp with T1 guns complaint.

On top of that in Arnon and in trade hubs I constantly see challenges thrown out on chant 1v1 Ti frigs anyone ?

HTFU (from an earlier post means Harden The Fruck UP and get into a tough, yes, but an immensely enjoyable, deep and varid MMO ...

... or give up.

me
MeestaPenni
Mercantile and Stuff
#119 - 2012-05-22 13:07:03 UTC
Carniferous wrote:
Richard Desturned wrote:
Carniferous wrote:
I appreciate the replies.

However saying that a player with T1 weaps stands a chance in low/nullsec is absurd.

T1 weaps with the best faction ammo do maybe 50 dmg.

T2 cannons do 450 dmg

How the hell is the T1 going to survive? They aren't.


Hi maybe you should look at my alliance's history of murdering veterans in faction fit HACs with T1 fitted Rifters that cost less than our enemies' ammo


Then you are pvp'ing against terrabad players.


How many times has he violenced you?

I am not Prencleeve Grothsmore.
Ryan Startalker Zhang
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#120 - 2012-05-22 13:10:57 UTC
Carniferous wrote:
To those saying "just buy a character".

You are missing the point. I don't want anything given to players on a silver platter.

I want to actually EARN things, and feel a sense of accomplishment. Clicking a train now button and then logging back on in a month is not my idea of earning anything. In fact it's the opposite.


You don't earn things by training skills. You earn things by using your existing skills to do THINGS.
If you are still waiting for Tech II weapon set on your ship, use meta4s, and learn to use transversal.