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Training curve too steep. Too harsh a timesink.

Author
Serge Bastana
GWA Corp
#81 - 2012-05-22 10:48:56 UTC
Sorry for your fail.

WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place...

Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#82 - 2012-05-22 10:49:26 UTC
Carniferous wrote:
Rofl.. That guys post has nothing to do with what I'm saying. Other than the skill decay part.

I'm done with this thread.

If you guys can't understand that rookie entry into this game in 2012 IS AN ABSOLUTE JOKE, I don't know what to tell you.

Numbers will just continue to dwindle. Which will suck, because I actually like this game.



Door --------------->

EvE is 9 years old, and is still growing. You just don't have a clue, go back to WoW.

The Tears Must Flow

Maraluk
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#83 - 2012-05-22 10:52:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Maraluk
There is a simple solution to all your worries about "omg what do I do while I r waiting to be leet!!!"

JOIN RvB!!

I deleted my old character in a fit of pique one day and left eve for over a year. Lost what would by now have been a 70million sp pvp player. But there you go. So Ive created this one, and joined Red v Blue.

Been in the corp a matter of a few days and killed countless ships, and lost mine too. Its hellish good fun.

From experience, I'm getting no less joy from shooting at people in a frigate than I was in a Battleship with T2 lazorrs. Smaller numbers appearing on my screen, but I still die between 0 and 10 minutes into the fight.

Eve is what you make it. If you cant make it anything, do something else.
Carniferous
ATLANTIS MINING AND TRADING INC.
#84 - 2012-05-22 10:52:52 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
Carniferous wrote:
Rofl.. That guys post has nothing to do with what I'm saying. Other than the skill decay part.

I'm done with this thread.

If you guys can't understand that rookie entry into this game in 2012 IS AN ABSOLUTE JOKE, I don't know what to tell you.

Numbers will just continue to dwindle. Which will suck, because I actually like this game.



Door --------------->

EvE is 9 years old, and is still growing. You just don't have a clue, go back to WoW.


Hey now with the insults. If your IQ was greater than 70 you would understand the gist of the thread. Instead you're parading around like a tarded fanboi. "O noes, don't insult EVE, it's my entire life"

I was merely pointing out a way EVE could improve you idiot.

In fact I'm glad the masses disagree with me. Otherwise I'd be questioning my own intelligence.
Aelder
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#85 - 2012-05-22 10:53:20 UTC
Carniferous, hopefully you realize by now that you are pretty much the only person who wants to change what most of us think is one of the best features of EVE.

Your ideas are bad and you should feel bad.
Serge Bastana
GWA Corp
#86 - 2012-05-22 10:53:30 UTC
Maraluk wrote:
Eve is what you make it. If you cant make it anything, do something else.


I made a tasty snack for two

WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place...

Cody Zamorah
Doomheim
#87 - 2012-05-22 10:54:38 UTC
Tippia wrote:

I always present this plan as a suggestion for how to do a surprising amount of damage at an early age. Please note the timeframes and clone costs involved: at one month and with a 65k ISK clone, you're dipping your toes in cruiser and BC combat and have a solid foundation for further specialisation.


I always found these 2 interesting aswel for low skilled people.

http://00sage00.wordpress.com/2009/06/02/piloting-saaviness/

http://00sage00.wordpress.com/2009/05/27/pvp-basics/

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#88 - 2012-05-22 10:56:21 UTC
Carniferous wrote:
I was merely pointing out a way EVE could improve you idiot.

In fact I'm glad the masses disagree with me. Otherwise I'd be questioning my own intelligence.

I see that game design e-degree from the University of Phoenix is finally paying off.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Epyx Nykee
Perkone
Caldari State
#89 - 2012-05-22 10:57:22 UTC
Carniferous wrote:
Rofl.. That guys post has nothing to do with what I'm saying. Other than the skill decay part.

I'm done with this thread.

If you guys can't understand that rookie entry into this game in 2012 IS AN ABSOLUTE JOKE, I don't know what to tell you.

Numbers will just continue to dwindle. Which will suck, because I actually like this game.


RAGEQUIT lol
Lady Ce'Nedra
88 Club
#90 - 2012-05-22 10:58:31 UTC
tbh all ur mates must be dumb as hell or hardcore wow players

ive got 12 mates into this so far n they still play n there in my corp.

eve is easy to learn

you just need one thing

on small thing

something so tiny

BRAIN CELLS
Skanky Pickle
Lords of More
#91 - 2012-05-22 10:58:51 UTC
Carniferous wrote:


I'm still trying to figure out the point of the training system from a balancing perspective. I get the business reason for making players wait long periods of time. I just don't get the gameplay reason.





Gameplay Reason: Starwars Galaxies died when the overly complicated method of becoming a jedi was made too damn easy, people like to work for a goal and it creates balance, keep in mind a player in about 2 weeks can get into a passable mining/pvp/pve ship, can join a corporation or alliance and be competitive for the most part.

It takes months to get really good at it, anything worth doing takes time.

Storyline reason: Capsuleers are training in various basic concepts of using their pods, when they strike out in their ships they are immortal time is not an issue for them, why would they be in a rush? Also when carriers and such are supposed to be rarer in the eve universe why would they be easy to fly?

Jebediah MacAhab Dallocort
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#92 - 2012-05-22 11:01:30 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
I would rather set a skill to train and go do something that I find fun in EVE, than to have to grind NPCs for hours to get levels. EVE doesn't force you to do anything particular to advance. Don't like mining? Run missions. Don't like missions? Do industry. Don't like industry? Fight other people! There is no single path that you need to follow to advance.

Hey, man, you can't be tellin' the noobs to get into the most hated profession in the game. That's a paddlin'.

How to Improve Quality Assurance at CCP

Professional Programmer, DBA, Game Developer and Systems Analyst

Evilmincer IV
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#93 - 2012-05-22 11:01:54 UTC
Skanky Pickle wrote:
Carniferous wrote:


I'm still trying to figure out the point of the training system from a balancing perspective. I get the business reason for making players wait long periods of time. I just don't get the gameplay reason.





Gameplay Reason: Starwars Galaxies died when the overly complicated method of becoming a jedi was made too damn easy, people like to work for a goal and it creates balance, keep in mind a player in about 2 weeks can get into a passable mining/pvp/pve ship, can join a corporation or alliance and be competitive for the most part.

It takes months to get really good at it, anything worth doing takes time.

Storyline reason: Capsuleers are training in various basic concepts of using their pods, when they strike out in their ships they are immortal time is not an issue for them, why would they be in a rush? Also when carriers and such are supposed to be rarer in the eve universe why would they be easy to fly?




I have to agree.

Anything worth while takes investment. People who get "bLEEP" handed to them. They don't feel like the worked for it.
There for they become BORED. And eventually just move on to the next game.

As for the storyline reason.
SPOT ON!
Try figuring out why the platypus is what it is.  Try figuring out why the sun rises in the east and sets in the west.  Try figuring out what set everything in motion. Once you have all the answers.CALL SOMEONE WHO GIVES A POOP
Evilmincer IV
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#94 - 2012-05-22 11:04:08 UTC
Lady Ce'Nedra wrote:
tbh all ur mates must be dumb as hell or hardcore wow players

ive got 12 mates into this so far n they still play n there in my corp.

eve is easy to learn

you just need one thing

on small thing

something so tiny

BRAIN CELLS



You can have all the brain cells in the world.
Wont amount to **** if your neurons arent firing upstairs.
We usually call this form of brain function mentally handicapped.
Try figuring out why the platypus is what it is.  Try figuring out why the sun rises in the east and sets in the west.  Try figuring out what set everything in motion. Once you have all the answers.CALL SOMEONE WHO GIVES A POOP
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#95 - 2012-05-22 11:07:42 UTC
If it didnt come up yet - just biomass yourself and register to world of childcraft.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

JoeBear770
Faster Muffins
#96 - 2012-05-22 11:09:06 UTC
The very fact of the skill training being done while absent or offline is what makes Eve better. If skills were based on grinding or time spent online would mean every unemployed youth or person living in their parents basement at age 35 would be the great majority of Eve players. Now folks with real jobs and lives can skill up as well as anyone else.
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#97 - 2012-05-22 11:10:37 UTC
Carniferous wrote:
Vaju Enki wrote:
Carniferous wrote:
Rofl.. That guys post has nothing to do with what I'm saying. Other than the skill decay part.

I'm done with this thread.

If you guys can't understand that rookie entry into this game in 2012 IS AN ABSOLUTE JOKE, I don't know what to tell you.

Numbers will just continue to dwindle. Which will suck, because I actually like this game.



Door --------------->

EvE is 9 years old, and is still growing. You just don't have a clue, go back to WoW.


Hey now with the insults. If your IQ was greater than 70 you would understand the gist of the thread. Instead you're parading around like a tarded fanboi. "O noes, don't insult EVE, it's my entire life"

I was merely pointing out a way EVE could improve you idiot.

In fact I'm glad the masses disagree with me. Otherwise I'd be questioning my own intelligence.


Your "improvements" are not what you think they are. They wouldn't suit EVE because EVE is not a game for whining little grind fest sycophants who want mommy to hold their hand while they take a dump. Like I said in my other post, the fact that you even started this moronic thread just goes to show that you do not have the first clue how this game is designed to work.

Instead of sitting there throwing a hissy fit that EVE is not designed specifically to suit you, why not do something totally shocking!! Why not......learn to play the frikken game. I know, it's shocking right? The idea that you could actually take the very good solid advice that people here have given you, some of which is proving 100% that most of what you are saying is utter bullcrap, and go out and play the game like the rest of us do.

If that is too difficult for you to comprehend, then you know where the door is. Please don't use it, throw yourself out the window instead.

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.

Holy One
Privat Party
#98 - 2012-05-22 11:14:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Holy One
CCP don't help themselves with new player retention/conversion. Core skills should train slightly faster, tier 2 and spec skills should train slightly slower. This would create more incentive to train new characters from scratch not just buy them off the bazar or quit entirely as most 'new' players do after ~6 months of not logging in to play a game they feel they can't participate in for at least a year. The old system of 100% skill training boost which was removed with learning points really (speaking from experience of training new characters and of trying to get new people to try eve) hurt in this regard.

Its just bad business strategy from CCP imho. There's no reason why 'core' skill training has to be so sadistic at all. No business reason and no logical/gameplay reason.

:)

Oxandrolone
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#99 - 2012-05-22 11:15:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Oxandrolone
it doesnt take that long to get into a useful ship time wise. a problem that i see with the game is the isk price of things. mass inflation causes prices to rise alot over time while the income a newbie makes has stayed about the game. mineral prices do change a bit so i guess mining is slightly more profitable than it was.

most people would like to encourage players to get into combat, the first step of this is running missions, learning how to control modules, move properly to give transversal, use correct amunition and understand the different types of tank etc. when i started i was caldari and passive tanked ferox was the way to roll in level 3 missions. a ferox now cots almost triple what i bought mine for yet the income a new player generates though missions is basically the same, even with the agent quality changes. and adding salvage to the game.

i feel bad for new players, the learning curve is much steeper than it used to be. i have helped my friend start playing and have him a few hundred mil to buy decent implants, get a ship etc so he doesnt have to do the grind that a brand new player does.

there are certain skills that are kinda requires, engineering/electronics to 4 for example, buying him a set of +4 implants and telling him how to remap to useful attributes saves literally days of training which are alot to a newbie.
Serge Bastana
GWA Corp
#100 - 2012-05-22 11:16:30 UTC
I can highly recommend Progress Quest for all your grinding needs.

I played this game for a while before I finally broke into EVE, it has lots of lovely grinding for skills, which is why I left and have never been back.

WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place...