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Warfare & Tactics

 
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There are only 2 Militias

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X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#201 - 2012-05-22 18:54:33 UTC
chatgris wrote:
Yes, but they were not actively engaged in an operation against the sovereign space of the Gallente Federation or its allies. I consider this action on a separate level. Obviously, I was wrong, but it doesn't change the fact that I didn't think they would do it.
Yes, but if you know Lockout and Tekitha, they couldn't care less about occupancy warfare. So it's not a stretch to think they would help WBR in Kamela. (see Lock Out's post above, lol)
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#202 - 2012-05-22 18:57:11 UTC
Lock out wrote:
chatgris wrote:


I would never have expected SOTF to actively fight a militia sov war that was contrary to the Gallente Federation's mandate (which includes attacking Amarr plexes, we go in there the button runs against the Minmatar and we get rewarded for it). That is what surprises me.



Gallente Federation's mandate ? Intergalactic summit, that way. -------->

If you wanna talk about prioritising blues, getting involved in blue vs blue fights, etc. I'll be more than happy to discuss, but we couldn't care less about **** rp'ing.


This isn't even Intergalactic summit. This is the core mechanics of factional warfare: these plexes you capture, these plexes you can defend. What you did prevents Gallente Militia from docking in that system too. I consider abiding by the mechanics of the faction I join basic e-honour in a video game. (I know that e-honour isn't required in this game, and is often time advertised as a weakness even by CCP, but it doesn't change my feelings about it).

Anyways, I better stop posting and get back to work.
Tekitha
Esshulls Retirement Club
#203 - 2012-05-22 18:59:29 UTC
chatgris wrote:
Lock out wrote:
chatgris wrote:


I would never have expected SOTF to actively fight a militia sov war that was contrary to the Gallente Federation's mandate (which includes attacking Amarr plexes, we go in there the button runs against the Minmatar and we get rewarded for it). That is what surprises me.



Gallente Federation's mandate ? Intergalactic summit, that way. -------->

If you wanna talk about prioritising blues, getting involved in blue vs blue fights, etc. I'll be more than happy to discuss, but we couldn't care less about **** rp'ing.


This isn't even Intergalactic summit. This is the core mechanics of factional warfare: these plexes you capture, these plexes you can defend. What you did prevents Gallente Militia from docking in that system too. I consider abiding by the mechanics of the faction I join basic e-honour in a video game. (I know that e-honour isn't required in this game, and is often time advertised as a weakness even by CCP, but it doesn't change my feelings about it).

Anyways, I better stop posting and get back to work.


I consider helping a long standing ally holding their home system as e-honor in a video game ...

Who's to say your definition is any more relevant than mine?
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#204 - 2012-05-22 19:02:20 UTC
Tekitha wrote:
chatgris wrote:
Lock out wrote:
chatgris wrote:


I would never have expected SOTF to actively fight a militia sov war that was contrary to the Gallente Federation's mandate (which includes attacking Amarr plexes, we go in there the button runs against the Minmatar and we get rewarded for it). That is what surprises me.



Gallente Federation's mandate ? Intergalactic summit, that way. -------->

If you wanna talk about prioritising blues, getting involved in blue vs blue fights, etc. I'll be more than happy to discuss, but we couldn't care less about **** rp'ing.


This isn't even Intergalactic summit. This is the core mechanics of factional warfare: these plexes you capture, these plexes you can defend. What you did prevents Gallente Militia from docking in that system too. I consider abiding by the mechanics of the faction I join basic e-honour in a video game. (I know that e-honour isn't required in this game, and is often time advertised as a weakness even by CCP, but it doesn't change my feelings about it).

Anyways, I better stop posting and get back to work.


I consider helping a long standing ally holding their home system as e-honor in a video game ...

Who's to say your definition is any more relevant than mine?


If you felt so strongly about it, you could have done so by leaving the Gallente Militia. Then you would have had no conflict of interestin. That I would have considered completely honourable, even though the end result is worse for the Federation.

I agree in a practical sense, what you did was better for the Federation than leaving since you chose WBR over the Federation, since you still fight the Caldari. I'm just more principled than practical, and that's a weakness of mine.
Cat Casidy
Percussive Diplomacy
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#205 - 2012-05-22 19:02:29 UTC
Obviously all gallente and minmattar are blues, espescially the ones who RP the hell out of this game...oh wait

"My name is Treyvn. I'm a diplomat with the Electus Matari alliance. We're an alliance supporting the Minmatar Republic. As an NRDS alliance (not red, don't shoot), we try to reduce piracy and other crimes in Republic space, and build relationships through communication and mutual respect.

We have Percussive Diplomacy set red (-5). We have observed the formation of Percussive Pizza Time Diplomacy. Based on your executor corp's Description, I see little reason to hesitate in recommending that PZZA be set red (-5). I will make that recommendation within a few days. However, if you'd like to comment, I welcome your reply."

Nitwits

.
Dirk Smacker
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#206 - 2012-05-22 19:04:13 UTC
Gallactica wrote:

You are not listening.

Half the minmatars have us set -10 and such kos?

Why the hell would we want to assist them?


Oh no, not -10 Big smile

If we had called in a Minmatar corp during our unsuccessful sneakerooney in Rakapas on Sunday, I'm sure SOTF would have wardecced them. Heck, they wardecced our corp 90 minutes before dt and it was pretty obvious we were rejoining militia.

I doubt the Minmatar have the stones to wardec SOTF.


I guess once you have a signature, you cannot have a blank one.
Dirk Smacker
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#207 - 2012-05-22 19:05:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Dirk Smacker
Cat Casidy wrote:
Obviously all gallente and minmattar are blues, espescially the ones who RP the hell out of this game...oh wait

"My name is Treyvn. I'm a diplomat with the Electus Matari alliance. We're an alliance supporting the Minmatar Republic. As an NRDS alliance (not red, don't shoot), we try to reduce piracy and other crimes in Republic space, and build relationships through communication and mutual respect.

We have Percussive Diplomacy set red (-5). We have observed the formation of Percussive Pizza Time Diplomacy. Based on your executor corp's Description, I see little reason to hesitate in recommending that PZZA be set red (-5). I will make that recommendation within a few days. However, if you'd like to comment, I welcome your reply."

Nitwits

Can we see the reply? Lol

The threat to change red(-5) to red(-5) is one not to be taken lightly.

I guess once you have a signature, you cannot have a blank one.
Lock out
Shadows Of The Federation
#208 - 2012-05-22 19:06:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Lock out
X Gallentius wrote:
chatgris wrote:
Yes, but they were not actively engaged in an operation against the sovereign space of the Gallente Federation or its allies. I consider this action on a separate level. Obviously, I was wrong, but it doesn't change the fact that I didn't think they would do it.
Yes, but if you know Lockout and Tekitha, they couldn't care less about occupancy warfare. So it's not a stretch to think they would help WBR in Kamela. (see Lock Out's post above, lol)



Well, we don't care about occupancy warfare from an rp'ing or arbitrary mechanics point of view. That beeing said, I think a lot of ppl can confirm I FC'd for 10-11 hrs straight to save Rakapas, Nenn, Enaluri, Aivonen (saving the bunker a few times, once in 15 % armor left) . Then Tek took over and saved it once more.

But we focused on saving Raka and Nenn because our friends from SLAPD and QCATS live there, not because some random rp reasons. We did the same for Kamela, tried (and succeded) to save a system where some friends live .

I am not interested in having some CCP arbitrary mechanic telling me who my friends and my enemies should be, I get to chose that and act accordingly, otherwise the whole ideea of sandbox is out the window and it becomes pretty linear. If you take politics and human relationships out of it, it becomes a mediocre spaceships shooter.
Andre Vauban
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#209 - 2012-05-22 19:10:54 UTC
Dirk Smacker wrote:
Cat Casidy wrote:
Obviously all gallente and minmattar are blues, espescially the ones who RP the hell out of this game...oh wait

"My name is Treyvn. I'm a diplomat with the Electus Matari alliance. We're an alliance supporting the Minmatar Republic. As an NRDS alliance (not red, don't shoot), we try to reduce piracy and other crimes in Republic space, and build relationships through communication and mutual respect.

We have Percussive Diplomacy set red (-5). We have observed the formation of Percussive Pizza Time Diplomacy. Based on your executor corp's Description, I see little reason to hesitate in recommending that PZZA be set red (-5). I will make that recommendation within a few days. However, if you'd like to comment, I welcome your reply."

Nitwits

Can we see the reply? Lol

The threat to change red(-5) to red(-5) is one not to be taken lightly.



"Nuts"?

.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#210 - 2012-05-22 19:11:15 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Lock out wrote:
.... stuff ... .
I bet Minnies would appreciate that you de-blue them BEFORE engaging in blue-on-blue activities instead of after. I know we would have appreciated it when you guys did the same thing in Gallente space. But that's your call.

Edit: Not to dismiss the help this weekend. The fleet to kill Russians and WTs was great fun.
Cat Casidy
Percussive Diplomacy
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#211 - 2012-05-22 19:16:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Cat Casidy
Dirk Smacker wrote:
Cat Casidy wrote:
Obviously all gallente and minmattar are blues, espescially the ones who RP the hell out of this game...oh wait

"My name is Treyvn. I'm a diplomat with the Electus Matari alliance. We're an alliance supporting the Minmatar Republic. As an NRDS alliance (not red, don't shoot), we try to reduce piracy and other crimes in Republic space, and build relationships through communication and mutual respect.

We have Percussive Diplomacy set red (-5). We have observed the formation of Percussive Pizza Time Diplomacy. Based on your executor corp's Description, I see little reason to hesitate in recommending that PZZA be set red (-5). I will make that recommendation within a few days. However, if you'd like to comment, I welcome your reply."

Nitwits

Can we see the reply? Lol

The threat to change red(-5) to red(-5) is one not to be taken lightly.


We sent him this picture (that's our member Deadmang) They kept us red.

And to everyone getting high and mighty, if the ethics committee of minmattar are allowed to set red and fire on supposed allies without ever having met them then two groups who have known each other for years but ended up on the opposite side of the "war" have every right to defend that relationship and each other.

.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#212 - 2012-05-22 19:16:13 UTC
Lock out wrote:
But we focused on saving Raka and Nenn because our friends from SLAPD and QCATS live there, not because some random rp reasons. We did the same for Kamela, tried (and succeded) to save a system where some friends live .


The difference is that SLAPD and QCATS are members of your militia, and Wolfsbrigade are members of an enemy of your militia.

Lock out wrote:
I am not interested in having some CCP arbitrary mechanic telling me who my friends and my enemies should be


Then here's some advice for you: don't play factional warfare. An arbitrary CCP mechanic telling you who your friends and enemies should be is the price you pay for being a member of it. Even then, it only tells you who your allies and enemies should be, not who they are. I never said your actions were somehow against the spirit of the game or "illegal", but they're certainly counterproductive and irksome.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Jones Bones
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#213 - 2012-05-22 19:16:17 UTC
Lock out wrote:
stuffz


Lock out, you can be my wingman, anytime.
Lord Meriak
State Naval Academy
#214 - 2012-05-22 19:19:02 UTC
For the 7th,, Amarrian Retribution & Myself, The last day of patch was 1 of the best ending of a patch in a very long time. Big smile

Gf in locals.Twisted

Sahtogas and kam & all amarr systems , decontested Bear

Looking forward to npc being sorted now more then ever; Shocked

Plex not being bugged (spwn) for 23 hours at a time then we can make some headway. Roll
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#215 - 2012-05-22 19:22:46 UTC  |  Edited by: chatgris
Lock out wrote:
But we focused on saving Raka and Nenn because our friends from SLAPD and QCATS live there, not because some random rp reasons. We did the same for Kamela, tried (and succeded) to save a system where some friends live .


This is a powerful statement. I do change my mind slightly from before and see your reasons and respect them quite deeply, and see the e-honour in it.

At the same time I still feel strongly about honouring the game mechanics, and this is partly why I am so incensed: I cannot see a clear "right" path forward to respond to these events.

Pulgy wrote:
Bros before hoes.
Deal it with it.
Also if you're under the assumption that Gallente and Minnies shouldn't shoot each other purely because of RP reasons then I'm more than happy to shoot you back :) and please if you're so mad about this let your actions speak for themselves, Castle Grayskull awaits.


The reason I don't do so is multi-faceted

- To do so, I would leave QCATS (because I wouldn't want to drag them into a conflict like this) and start my own one man corp to do my principled action.
- Even if I did so, from a practical standpoint, it would do little. I would kill a few, I would probably die more due to sheer numerical weight. But it's not the practicality, it's the principle, which brings me to my next point.
- As I said before, I'm more principled than practical, so practicality is not such a big deal. If I were to do so, I would be harming your efforts to defend the Federation and attack the Caldari militia. I would be doing a disservice to the Federation in my crusade for principled revenge. So I can't even say that it's the most principled thing to do.
- And lets say I left the Gallente Federation so I wouldn't be harming the war effort of the faction I was with. Then what? I would have left a faction to fight a grudge only because of the faction and that'd just be stupid, and my sense of RP principle is then lost.
- I'd also obviously lose the ability to fly in SOTF fleets, which can be a ton of fun. I'd be shooting myself in the foot.
- Finally, what fun would it be? After a week or two of feeling good about principled actions (and where the action would be principled is debatable as in the above point) I'd just be creating drama within the Gallente Federation, and I hate drama. I'd make it more difficult to fly with the people I liked to fly with, and make it more difficult for them to fly with me, and we'd be like the Caldari militia was back in 2010. And I'd rather not submit the Federation to that kind of ridicule like the Caldari did to themselves.

EDIT: It's also a war with no ending point. Even if for some reason I thought that pushing SOTF out of the militia was a good thing (which I don't see above points): I'd never run out of ISK, I'd never be able to inflict enough damage to change anything that SOTF did (due to numbers and timezone issues), and it would go on and on and be full of drama. So while my action might be principled, I wouldn't be able to achieve any goal except to forevermore protest SOTF's actions. And I am doing that with words, freedom of expression, not with the use of force.

So instead, I seethe with no clear option in front of me. And that's why I'm so bothered, because I do not have a clear correct course of action.

Isn't emergent gameplay grand?
Jared Reidel
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#216 - 2012-05-22 19:22:55 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
...they're certainly...irksome


Ah now there's a reason not to have done it!
David Devant
CTRL-Q
Ushra'Khan
#217 - 2012-05-22 19:25:09 UTC
Pulgy wrote:
Bros before hoes.
Deal it with it.
Also if you're under the assumption that Gallente and Minnies shouldn't shoot each other purely because of RP reasons then I'm more than happy to shoot you back :) and please if you're so mad about this let your actions speak for themselves, Castle Grayskull awaits.


I don't RP. However, it would make sense for the Federation to take a dim view of such activities and slap some standings loss on you. Jus sayin.
Tekitha
Esshulls Retirement Club
#218 - 2012-05-22 19:26:00 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:


Then here's some advice for you: don't play factional warfare. An arbitrary CCP mechanic telling you who your friends and enemies should be is the price you pay for being a member of it. Even then, it only tells you who your allies and enemies should be, not who they are. I never said your actions were somehow against the spirit of the game or "illegal", but they're certainly counterproductive and irksome.


We don't "play factional warfare" we play eve, and FW just so happens to be the theatre that most suits our purpose. Nothing more than that, we have no interest in the goings on of FW and it's RP membership above and beyond that which affects our gameplay.
Desra Mascani
Eleutherian Guard
#219 - 2012-05-22 19:27:20 UTC
Joanna Ramirez wrote:


................


I think we need to end repeating this line since we are getting close to 5 quotes limit...


WTF? Good post from Damar. Eeeeeeh, you melt my heart. ShockedCry
Desra Mascani
Eleutherian Guard
#220 - 2012-05-22 19:32:33 UTC
Tekitha wrote:
Andreus Ixiris wrote:


Then here's some advice for you: don't play factional warfare. An arbitrary CCP mechanic telling you who your friends and enemies should be is the price you pay for being a member of it. Even then, it only tells you who your allies and enemies should be, not who they are. I never said your actions were somehow against the spirit of the game or "illegal", but they're certainly counterproductive and irksome.


We don't "play factional warfare" we play eve, and FW just so happens to be the theatre that most suits our purpose. Nothing more than that, we have no interest in the goings on of FW and it's RP membership above and beyond that which affects our gameplay.


Anyway, there goes my trust for SOTF leadership.

BTW, you should decide if you stay in FW since it's you who fck it up with your dual loyalty.

Now let the damn you ******** RPer answers flow.