Intergalactic Summit

Meh. War is war, there will always be those who pillage, I can live with that

Weird. So far I thought it was universally known that the militias are full of piratical elements, and the reactions I have seen so far have been mostly that this is considered a necessary evil and mainly acceptable because those elements happen to shoot in the right direction. (Which explains the outcry here: The piratical elements started shooting in the wrong direction.)

I guess shades of grey are not for everyone. A universe in black and white is so much simpler.

Ever hear of the spoils of war?

It's a rare treat indeed if I ever claim back what I lost in a fight, and maybe I deserved to loose it. A harsh reminder to be better prepared next time. I've never looted a war target, I have some modicum of honor, but that's not to say I won't judge another for claiming compensation for his efforts.

Welcome to the battlefield. There is no clause that states, "unsavory characters need not apply"

You're point, other than to gripe about the moral standards of your opponent? I have no interest in corporate affairs or running business, just the business of war. The TLF i a good resource for that.

And it may have escaped your notice but Concord just opened up the market for Mercenaries, you may be seeing me on more than one battle front in the near future.

My point is that this war is a complete waste of time and energy of all parties involved. There are far bigger fish to fry, and yet there the militias are, still squabbling over lowsec systems with little care for the livelihood and safety of the people who actually live there. You do more harm than good for any of them, no matter what side of the conflict you are on.

The "Mercenary Marketplace," or whatever they're calling it, did not escape my notice. What might've escaped yours is that you won't be doing any work through it with your current employer.



You don't have to like that we've been saying this from day one, but you can't deny that we're right, and that we did in fact tell you so. At some point, it becomes clear that people like having their fingers wedged into their ear canals, and the only thing you can do is sit back and watch the fireworks.

I am doing nothing overt, precisely because I know nothing can be done about it except making loud noises in the direction of CONCORD and the militias' overseers, and even that's not guaranteed to work. No capsuleer entity can force an individual pilot or corporation (or, for that matter, alliance) out of the militia, aside from the aforementioned two parties (CONCORD and the militias' overseers) and the individual/corp/alliance in question. That is how "far beyond" that task is. It's simply not possible through means available to us as capsuleers. There is also a very big difference between ignoring a problem, and stating it doesn't exist or doesn't matter. The latter is what almost always happens when someone from the militia is confronted with the facts. Not the former.

As for trying to dispute the idea that nobody ever really gets up in arms about it until **** like this happens, I've got several years of experience that says otherwise. You want the problem to be fixed? Convince your masters to find ways to encourage focus on valid targets in the war front and actively discourage work outside of it against people who are not involved. Wasting your time trying to force your misbehaving militiamates to vacate the premises doesn't help anyone, least of all yourselves.

EDIT: Out of respect to the original topic of discussion and to you as an individual, I will retract this particular branch of my argument as my argument is not against you.

My only point was that there are people doing what they can to combat the situation just as readily as there are those completely denying the existence of the problem. Please do not discredit all of them collectively and standing aside saying "we told you so" does not constructively assist the situation at all.

There are people doing what they can, including treating piratical elements in their own militias as just that, pirates.

It is an urban legend, at best. It was the case the first year of the war and stopped after. I too have heard that new corporations like KotMC are considering to fight against that issue, and I wish them best of luck for that.




All these reactions only comes from some of their guilty members that still have problems of conscience with what they are doing, and try to justify themselves with clumsy rhetoric and stretched arguments/strawmen.

This is not about shades of grey, this is about accepting unstable groups that sometimes do more damage to their own empire than to their enemies.



They do not deny it, they are involved in complicity in the crimes they commit. Almost everyone of them supports each other and actively lobbies to tell the minorities to shut up, or at best, to find excuses - minorities that do not even always exist either.



Here we go again. "You are not involved nor are you fighting against it, so you know nothing or are not in position to speak about it.

Well then, we are no politicians so we can not talk about politics, we are no painters so we can not talk about painting (etc) ?

You can still talk about something without being a certified expert in it. Of course though, a certified expert will certainly weight a lot more.

Who discredited all of them ? I am not sure to recall having said that every member of the militias does not try to fix the issue at hand. You may read things that were actually never stated.

Also, I thought the few people that might be trying to fix the issue at hand and that have still retained their integrity would not feel concerned at all by what I said, which seems quite obvious.

In any case, I never implied them in the same bag.




The result is the same. You put zero value on her opinion because she is not actively involved. Reasons for this may be plenty - as mine are - and the same way I put zero value on that kind of statement, because involvement may imply experience or expertise, and may also imply fallacy, failure to remain detached, or just bias.

Edit : and if you are looking for people that are actually involved, well, I may not be anymore, but I have been for more than 3 years. I hope that can vouch for what Ms Lagann said.



And yet you do not even explain why my statement is an idiocy.

Farel,

I will try and explain this reasonably because we appear to have a failure in communication.

First, I did not say your statement was an idiocy, I said that it is representative of the kind of idiocy that comes from the rationalization you presented as an accusation against me. I was not attacking your statement, I was agreeing that the conclusions that can be drawn using that form of logic are idiocy.

Furthermore, the result is not the same. Morwen has every right to voice her opinion and her standpoint and I would never say she didn't, what I did explain is that because her attitude is to simply "stand back and watch the chaos," I personally put no value to her opinion. That does not make her opinion invalid as a whole, it only makes it invalid to me. Beyond that, and I realize this was a fault of mine, the second statement was not a qualifier to the first, they were two separate thoughts. In other words, I put zero value on her opinion because of her attitude and how she approaches the situation and then explain that because she's not actively involved she does not necessarily have the full scope of the situation. Nothing more and nothing less.



This statement referred collectively to "people." I responded by making it clear that there are at least some elements in the militias working toward combating piracy and they should not be discredited. From there, it escalated into this discussion. It was not an attempt to vilify you or your statements, it was an attempt to make it clear that not everyone in the militia is putting their fingers in their ears, so to speak.

Furthermore, I know you were involved, you were serving the Knighthood of the Merciful Crown when I first took to the stars, but no it doesn't lend any more credence to Morwen's statements. I've already stated that I do not deny that many do, in fact, deny any piracy in the militias and that many do ignore the problem as well. All I did was point out that there are also many who don't do either and, in fact, actively work against it and they should be given credit for their efforts.

That such a statement has escalated into semantics arguments was completely unexpected and unintended.

Gallenteans would not be defeated as easily as you may believe. I can safely say there are many cowards in the Federation, I've seen and flown with them myself. However, many contain a fanaticism for their country unseen in other nations. You must remember that during the Gallente-Caldari war ships were bombarding Caldari prime before the bloated bodies finished floating to the surface above Nouvelle Rouvenor, and that a certain Admiral waited nearly 100 years to carry out his "revenge".

And all while the Gallente Military has been teaching us conventional warfare, we have been teaching them guerilla warfare. Just last week I was explaining to some old officer how you could hide a small chemical weapon in the ventilation system of a cruiser.

Point is, you can't be too sure of yourself. Without a doubt you could probably get the entire senate pleading for mercy before you even finish loading missiles into their respective launch bays. But if uneducated, unarmed slaves could overthrow their Amarrian masters, then educated, somewhat armed Gallenteans would put up massive amounts of resistance.